90s Cup musings

[Ranking Ted]

So, all the ties are up and it’s fair to say, the lists en masse would represent nobody but the criminally insane’s 90s. There’s plenty on there that would feature in mine - Massive Attack, Blur, ATCQ, Pulp, Wu Tang Clan, Beck, Saint Etienne, etc -but there’s even more things that I’d expect any 90s list to contain but which this excludes. Off top of my head: Pavement, Oasis, Beastie Boys, Chemical Brothers, Acid Jazz types (as opposed to the actual jazz selected), Pearl Jam, Tricky, Smashing Pumpkins, Drum & Bass, Bob Dylan as the elder statesman of choice... Not really sure what that means other than it was a pretty eclectic period and mainstream consensus was fraying.

Anyway, other overall thoughts? Including general flaying of the standard?

[The Modernist]

I've been thinking about this a bit. I think a lot of us have a nostalgia for the 90s because its when many were young, but I think it was quite a weak decade for music, quite a fall from the 80s. Only hip-hop went through its golden years. Of course it doesn't help that a certain kind of post grunge indie is dominating a lot of the selections.

[Dayodead]

I nixed two of those mentioned at the last minute, because I thought they would not perform well here..(Tricky and Drum & Bass artist Kruder and Dorfmeister) and I already had a few non performers on my list (Crescent, Pram, Lali Puna and Movietone)...Went with Yo la Teno and Stereolab instead...At least Stereolab worked out...

[Polishgirl]

I've realised that my music 90s were very different. The electronic/ambient/ hip hop stuff wasn't really on my radar.

Also, I find that in the Cups, my taste often coincides with Fange's and Ted's . This time, though, not so much. Which is probably good news for them.

[Ranking Ted]

I think a case for it being a great decade could be made - but it’s pretty clear that very few would agree with what that would contain. Certainly it’s clear from the picks that what the decade lacked was the quality and eclectism of chart pop that the preceding decades had. Was it all tedious Spice Girls, Take That, Eternal and East 17 style froth? I rather suspect it was.

[Count Machuki]

So, when's the Beatles Cup?

[algroth]

I might offer the possibility of hosting the next cup. I have a few ideas in mind, could make a poll to see which one interests you all the most?

[fange]

I might offer the possibility of hosting the next cup. I have a few ideas in mind, could make a poll to see which one interests you all the most?

Sure, good idea al.

I'll come back to the general topic when i have more time; there are a few things that need mentioning here, both in Cup terms and the '90s in general.

[Neige]

As I wrote in the Standings thread:

Wow!

Looks like it's really not my decade, by BCB standards anyway.
Only the laughably archconservative BFOT fared worse than me
... and as I get a bye in the final round, I have to live with the 2 points.

In a way, I do take pride in this result.

... I was on holidays during rounds 3 to 6, so I might have missed out on a few gems, but in general, I was non-plussed by what I was familiar with and actively disliked a lot of what I didn't know.

I might offer the possibility of hosting the next cup. I have a few ideas in mind, could make a poll to see which one interests you all the most?

I'll probably be totally stumped with any genre suggested by you, algroth, but never mind - I'll play.

[Darkness_Fish]

Personally, I don't believe in the concept of weak eras for music, it just doesn't really make sense to me as a concept. Each generation has the previous generation's work to build on and move forward, or define something new themselves. Although I'm fucked if I can find anything from 1975 or 1976 that's listenable. I think the problem is trying to cater for a fairly mainstream board who's taste generally leans to the 60s & 70s, you seem to want well-structured guitar based pop songs with verses and chords in all the right places, and there wasn't a lot of that about in the 90s. You end up voting for Mike Boom, and that just isn't right.

Oh yeah, and only one jungle/dnb track in a 90s comp? Seems wrong by definition.

[The Modernist]

Personally, I don't believe in the concept of weak eras for music, it just doesn't really make sense to me as a concept. Each generation has the previous generation's work to build on and move forward, or define something new themselves.

What happens when they run out of ideas or that the ideas aren't as good as previous generations? Then you can have the problem of musical movements being built on the wrong ideas.

[The Modernist]

Oh yeah, and only one jungle/dnb track in a 90s comp? Seems wrong by definition.

I've picked tracks by Bukem and Adam F in the main cup before..they never do very well!
I don't think that genre made much, if any, impact in The States so you've lost half your potential vote right there.

[Samoan]

I was surprised not to see Longpigs.
Anyway, well done all, I'm afraid life got in the way of voting plus the rounds came thick and fast.

[Diamond Dog]

It's the first Cup I've entered in many a year.... I'm not sure why I chose this one but the 90's just seemed like a decade I can remember enjoying musically more than the previous one.

I have to say, there have been a few gems I've not heard before, a few I've forgotten about too - but the overall standard has been, for me, pretty dire. There has been an incredible amount of post grunge/post punk/post indie nonsense which really has been tough to endure. There have also been alot of 8+ minute tracks which, quite frankly, could have been wrapped up much earlier in proceedings (amusing coming from a Zep fan, I hear you say).

Overall though - i've enjoyed it and might just enter a few more.

One 'complaint'.... why is it not okay to enter 'successful' tunes? The amount of 'snobbery' around that has really astounded me - including comments like "I'm certainly not going to vote for a hit single from them" etc etc..... I was looking for the rules that said "No chart hits" but I couldn't find it.

Just a thought

[The Modernist]

People have definitely favoured the aggressive, abrasive and attitudinal. It's why the likes of Beck, Air and Stereolab haven't done well (Stereolab would no doubt have done better if their more krautrock-y side had been picked). Bad news for me because that's the kind of stuff I did like.

[Dayodead]

...Although I'm fucked if I can find anything from 1975 or 1976 that's listenable....

1975 & 1976 are tough sledding indeed.... For you, maybe Neu!- Neu! 75, Kraftwerk- Radio-Activity, The Modern Lovers- The Modern lovers, The Residents- The Third Reich and Roll (??) ....I was barely able to eek out a Top 10 from each of those years for the Loz polls...

[Darkness_Fish]

Personally, I don't believe in the concept of weak eras for music, it just doesn't really make sense to me as a concept. Each generation has the previous generation's work to build on and move forward, or define something new themselves.

What happens when they run out of ideas or that the ideas aren't as good as previous generations? Then you can have the problem of musical movements being built on the wrong ideas.

Yeah, that happens, too. But it's not like there's only one idea, one place to go, music forks in all directions from an influential starting point. Some of the ideas are crap, some go on on to be longstanding musical trends, and those two things aren't mutually exclusive. It's just that there's always someone doing something else from the same starting point, and some of that is always good.

[Darkness_Fish]

One 'complaint'.... why is it not okay to enter 'successful' tunes? The amount of 'snobbery' around that has really astounded me - including comments like "I'm certainly not going to vote for a hit single from them" etc etc..... I was looking for the rules that said "No chart hits" but I couldn't find it.

Just a thought

Well, it's because this is more interesting (to me, anyway, and how I judge things) as a competition to try and pick something less obvious, because I want to hear quality new music. Even if in the only unknowns that really stand out to me are Pram, and that Vic Chesnutt track in round 8, that's still been worth my while. Even if its not good, it's just more interesting to hear new stuff, or perhaps something almost forgotten, than have to comment on "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and "Celebrity Skin". We could all have picked 8 famous tracks that would appeal to most people here, I just don't see the point in doing that.

[Diamond Dog]

One 'complaint'.... why is it not okay to enter 'successful' tunes? The amount of 'snobbery' around that has really astounded me - including comments like "I'm certainly not going to vote for a hit single from them" etc etc..... I was looking for the rules that said "No chart hits" but I couldn't find it.

Just a thought

Well, it's because this is more interesting (to me, anyway, and how I judge things) as a competition to try and pick something less obvious, because I want to hear quality new music. Even if in the only unknowns that really stand out to me are Pram, and that Vic Chesnutt track in round 8, that's still been worth my while. Even if its not good, it's just more interesting to hear new stuff, or perhaps something almost forgotten, than have to comment on "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and "Celebrity Skin". We could all have picked 8 famous tracks that would appeal to most people here, I just don't see the point in doing that.

Oh I get that entirely. I just find the absolute distaste some express for the more obvious tunes kind of elitist. If you're not going to vote for it out of over familiarity, that's fine. But to suggest that you think it's shit because you've heard it so often... that seems a bit obtuse to me (not you personally, in general I mean).

[Darkness_Fish]

People have definitely favoured the aggressive, abrasive and attitudinal. It's why the likes of Beck, Air and Stereolab haven't done well (Stereolab would no doubt have done better if their more krautrock-y side had been picked). Bad news for me because that's the kind of stuff I did like.

Not convinced on that. There's been very little that could be considered aggressive or attitudinal. I think the cup more shows that hip-hop is under-represented AND overrated, dance music is under represented and underrated, and Neil Young was the most vital artist of the 90s.