PP2017 Round 3 Match 5 *fange 6- Hugh 12*

[Lord Rother]

A may or may not be prog - but it's definitely pretty crap.

I find the objections to the vocals in B just plain weird; I listened expecting to hear some embarrassing toneless tuneless wailing but there's nothing wrong with them at all.

B

[Darkness_Fish]

'Ghost Rider' is certainly a valid broad church pick for this Cup for me too. There's the fantastical theme matter in the lyrics, as well as a clear sonic lineage that can be traced from bands like Can, Kraftwerk and Neu! with the use of electronics, echo, repetition, drone, etc. The "it's not prog" sentiments miss the point i think.

Nah, not buying it. There's certainly no overt display of musical prowess, if anything it's an overt display of lack of musical chops. And while you can try to connect them to krautrock via electronics and repetition, it sounds more to me like they just used the cheapest tool available to create the simplest backing music possible. And as to the fantastical theme matter, this is very much a more urban misspent youth, theme, the city-dwelling comic book teen. You don't get the impression that the singer masturbates over pictures of unicorns fighting dragons, which, after all, is the very essence of prog.

[fange]

It's a broad wanking church, my learned friend. Yes indeed, a broad wanking church.




●

[Nancy]

A is a good enough song, I liked several things about it.

I'm definitely not in the anti-Jakko league, and I think most of the "over-emoting" that happens is in his facial expressions because if I close my eyes and just listen, I think he sounds great. And herr Fripp is on fucquing fire all over this version. A great big....

[algroth]

'Ghost Rider' is certainly a valid broad church pick for this Cup for me too. There's the fantastical theme matter in the lyrics, as well as a clear sonic lineage that can be traced from bands like Can, Kraftwerk and Neu! with the use of electronics, echo, repetition, drone, etc. The "it's not prog" sentiments miss the point i think.

Nah, not buying it. There's certainly no overt display of musical prowess, if anything it's an overt display of lack of musical chops. And while you can try to connect them to krautrock via electronics and repetition, it sounds more to me like they just used the cheapest tool available to create the simplest backing music possible. And as to the fantastical theme matter, this is very much a more urban misspent youth, theme, the city-dwelling comic book teen. You don't get the impression that the singer masturbates over pictures of unicorns fighting dragons, which, after all, is the very essence of prog.

I'm pretty broad (or rather, different) in my definition of prog but I am also inclined to agree that Suicide is not prog. From a musical standpoint its intentions are completely elsewhere, I feel: sure, the synths, drum machines and other effects all turn their music into a fusion of kraut/electronic and garage that can be said to be 'progressive' in a more general sense of the word, but the track is very much an assault and is definitely set on being as much for its (short) duration. If there are two things which in my mind define prog above all else including lyrical themes and musicianship, it's a) a progressive outlook to the artist's music expressed through a fusion of rock with elements of the avant-garde movements of the time whether in rock, classical, jazz, electronic, or else; and perhaps more importantly b) a narrative structure, or emotional cadence such that a piece might flow as a 'narrative'. When these two conditions are met, we can talk about something beginning to be referred to as prog, and in this regard I think this track does a) with flying colours but is definitely missing b). Which, mind, is not me saying it's worse off for it either.

[fange]

Well, i'm happy to see it as 'progressive' then, I guess. There is a narrative there, albeit a short and rather bruising one.

[clive gash]

A

[never/ever]

I love Suicide and that album but in context, it is

B

[never/ever]

fange 6

Hugh 12