cup 11 -thoughts..

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B
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Re: cup 11 -thoughts..

Postby B » 04 Mar 2011, 03:02

I was in a tie breaker and wasn't sure how those go down. What made sense to me is that the 5 for the tie breaker would be for the tie breaker only. The rest of the list isn't there in the tiebreaker so why have the tie breaker selections carry into the following round? It doesn't exactly matter to me at this point but that's how I see it.

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Re: cup 11 -thoughts..

Postby Loki » 04 Mar 2011, 04:25

mentalist (slight return) wrote:I'm running out of songs, kick me out already.

:lol: :lol: :lol:




:evil:
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Re: cup 11 -thoughts..

Postby Loki » 04 Mar 2011, 04:55

The Modernist wrote:
Count Machuki wrote:What about paring the original lists down to three songs for the tie-breaker? Put what you think are your three best songs of the original list up against what the other poster thinks are his three best.


That's the best suggestion so far as it would give people a chance to highlight what they think is great about their list.


Yes, not a terrible idea at all.
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Re: cup 11 -thoughts..

Postby Diamond Dog » 04 Mar 2011, 08:30

Loki wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
Count Machuki wrote:What about paring the original lists down to three songs for the tie-breaker? Put what you think are your three best songs of the original list up against what the other poster thinks are his three best.


That's the best suggestion so far as it would give people a chance to highlight what they think is great about their list.


Yes, not a terrible idea at all.


it's a fucking awful idea. It kind of negates the idea of posting coherent lists, in the first place, and - anyway- how can a person choose which three? Presumably they would be able to post hundreds of songs they consider great - why would they be able to just pick three and say, that's the best three.
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Re: cup 11 -thoughts..

Postby Beebsy » 04 Mar 2011, 14:35

So we are saying that the lists are coherent then?

If so, as I said before (but does anybody listen? :evil: :D ) print the whole list with the five additional so we can see them in context (am I on repeat here?!).

Then, if it's not too convoluted, drop those five. And submit the list with its new five when it goes through.

I know I'm being a bit of a dog with a bone here but they are either whole lists or not (excluding the fact that some people allow one song to ruin a list for them).

The Modernist

Re: cup 11 -thoughts..

Postby The Modernist » 04 Mar 2011, 14:42

Well we're going over the same ground here, but if faced with a list of 20 tracks that you preferred to the other 20, I think it unlikely that a new five tacked on to the end would have sufficient weight to make you want to switch your vote.
At least having five new tracks makes people have to judge things again.

The Modernist

Re: cup 11 -thoughts..

Postby The Modernist » 04 Mar 2011, 15:16

I think with the criticism that lists can look stale when the tie-break five are repeated in the next round, I can see nothing wrong with giving people the option of having an entirely new set of five songs or even just using some of them with new songs. However if we made this change it would have to wait until next year as I don't think it would be fair to alter things halfway through.

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Re: cup 11 -thoughts..

Postby the masked man » 04 Mar 2011, 17:57

The Modernist wrote:I think with the criticism that lists can look stale when the tie-break five are repeated in the next round, I can see nothing wrong with giving people the option of having an entirely new set of five songs or even just using some of them with new songs. However if we made this change it would have to wait until next year as I don't think it would be fair to alter things halfway through.


There's absolutely no question of changing the rules in the middle of a tournament - we've already had something like six or seven tied matches, so it would look ridiculous to treat the next tied match differently. Also, we're clearly going to struggle to get consensus on how to proceed at present.

Nevertheless, I think there is an argument for discussing how to improve the tournament before next year's BCB Cup arrives. There's also another question here. What happens when the tie-break match is also drawn? I don't think this has ever happened before, although one of this year's replays was settled by a single vote. Maybe, if this did happen, we could use five new songs that won't go forward to the next round?

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Re: cup 11 -thoughts..

Postby Nolamike » 04 Mar 2011, 18:13

the masked man wrote:There's also another question here. What happens when the tie-break match is also drawn? I don't think this has ever happened before, although one of this year's replays was settled by a single vote. Maybe, if this did happen, we could use five new songs that won't go forward to the next round?


In that case, it might be neat to do only have a three song list, or even one song v. one song.
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Re: cup 11 -thoughts..

Postby The Modernist » 04 Mar 2011, 18:18

Nolamike wrote:
the masked man wrote:There's also another question here. What happens when the tie-break match is also drawn? I don't think this has ever happened before, although one of this year's replays was settled by a single vote. Maybe, if this did happen, we could use five new songs that won't go forward to the next round?


In that case, it might be neat to do only have a three song list, or even one song v. one song.


But it gets boring having to keep sending songs. How about a boxing match?

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Re: cup 11 -thoughts..

Postby Diamond Dog » 04 Mar 2011, 19:24

The Modernist wrote:
Nolamike wrote:
the masked man wrote:There's also another question here. What happens when the tie-break match is also drawn? I don't think this has ever happened before, although one of this year's replays was settled by a single vote. Maybe, if this did happen, we could use five new songs that won't go forward to the next round?


In that case, it might be neat to do only have a three song list, or even one song v. one song.


But it gets boring having to keep sending songs. How about a boxing match?



I choose "The Boxer" Simon & Garfunkel.
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Re: cup 11 -thoughts..

Postby Loki » 05 Mar 2011, 02:04

Diamond Dog wrote:
it's a fucking awful idea. It kind of negates the idea of posting coherent lists, in the first place, and - anyway- how can a person choose which three? Presumably they would be able to post hundreds of songs they consider great - why would they be able to just pick three and say, that's the best three.

Disagree. Why wouldn't they be able to choose 3 faves off a list of ten? If you can pick ten original songs, then.....I guess I don't get what you're saying.
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Re: cup 11 -thoughts..

Postby Loki » 05 Mar 2011, 02:10

The Modernist wrote:
Nolamike wrote:
the masked man wrote:There's also another question here. What happens when the tie-break match is also drawn? I don't think this has ever happened before, although one of this year's replays was settled by a single vote. Maybe, if this did happen, we could use five new songs that won't go forward to the next round?


In that case, it might be neat to do only have a three song list, or even one song v. one song.


But it gets boring having to keep sending songs. How about a boxing match?

It's GO time!


I like what Mike said too (Cue DD).
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Re: cup 11 -thoughts..

Postby never/ever » 09 Mar 2011, 19:46

So no one's thinking that if lists are tied perhaps a new pairing of the ex-aequo-lists at the end of the current round is a good idea?
I find myself picking one list over another and wondering if the losing list would fare better if it was grouped together with another one. Seems like a reasonable idea then to do that instead of a play-off which merely is a gamble.
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Re: cup 11 -thoughts..

Postby The Modernist » 09 Mar 2011, 19:55

never/ever wrote:So no one's thinking that if lists are tied perhaps a new pairing of the ex-aequo-lists at the end of the current round is a good idea?
I find myself picking one list over another and wondering if the losing list would fare better if it was grouped together with another one. Seems like a reasonable idea then to do that instead of a play-off which merely is a gamble.


:?:
I haven't a clue what you're suggesting here -can anyone help? :)

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Re: cup 11 -thoughts..

Postby never/ever » 09 Mar 2011, 20:10

Simple.

All the ties that end in a draw get replayed at the end of the round but the pairings will be different. This will work if the number of draws is an even number per round.
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Re: cup 11 -thoughts..

Postby The Modernist » 09 Mar 2011, 20:17

never/ever wrote:Simple.

All the ties that end in a draw get replayed at the end of the round but the pairings will be different. This will work if the number of draws is an even number per round.


ah..I see.
As you say it would only work if there were even numbers. I wouldn't object to that, but more because I'm quite open for any kind of change. However we should remember that such discussion is a little premature as any changes won't be enacted until next year, so perhaps that's the time for the debate (not that I'm attemptiing to shut anybody up..I'm happy to chew the cud on this stuff).

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Re: cup 11 -thoughts..

Postby Count Machuki » 09 Mar 2011, 23:40

Let's have the tie-breakers be album selections. Pick 5 albums to be used just in the tie-break.

That keeps existing lists from getting stale, allows people to save up their song selections, and adds a new level of strategy to the game.
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Re: cup 11 -thoughts..

Postby GoogaMooga » 15 Mar 2011, 18:24

This is my first cup, and I find that now that we have reached the semi's, that the lists are too long to judge properly, but still I try to vote.
1966 and all that

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Re: cup 11 -thoughts..

Postby never/ever » 19 Mar 2011, 11:09

Next year we should have a secret ballot. :lol:
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