Bitter Recriminations 2009 - Now Bitterer Than Ever!

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Django
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Re: Bitter Recriminations 2009 - Now Bitterer Than Ever!

Postby Django » 28 Jan 2009, 01:07

the masked man wrote:To be honest, I don't think my tastes are close enough to the BCB mainstream to enable me to pick a surefire winning list. I mean, I could, I suppose, pick a classic rock and soul list with a handful of tracks from Nuggets to give my list that all-important obscurity factor. But I doubt I could pull it off, and anyway everyone knows that's not really my taste.

So I did just pick ten songs I genuinely love. I've tried to pick a mixture of genres while ignoring stuff that's so obscure that it would encourage no-one to vote for me


That's pretty much where I'm coming from.

I can't say it's paid off.

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Matty Red Sox
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Re: Bitter Recriminations 2009 - Now Bitterer Than Ever!

Postby Matty Red Sox » 28 Jan 2009, 01:20

I usually go far... third or fourth round anyway, with music that I both like and would DJ with - but I also get to play things like albatross by PiL and the Fish Needs A Bicycle, because we are expecting to push the edge a bit. This year I am experimenting a bit more than usual in the first round than in previous years...completely ignoring a key BCB genre, and also playing some stuff that I normally would wait about two rounds to pull out. Let's see how it does.

Oh and for tally keepers... this years' Another Girl Another Planet/Rain/Help You Ann (of which all three on my first list in competition) seems to be:
Lady Friend - The Byrds
The 15 - Wire

They have been on two out of eight lists so far. No Beatles or Who yet, and only one sucky Stones tune.
the Eagles suck.

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Re: Bitter Recriminations 2009 - Now Bitterer Than Ever!

Postby PENK » 28 Jan 2009, 01:24

Dr Modernist wrote:
Sir John Coan wrote:
Dr Modernist wrote:
It's old-fashioned!
Imagine BCB as a vector diagram representing everyone's tastes. Someone will be near the middle of that where everyone else's tastes intersect. For that person it is perhaps worth composing their list with a real thought as to the reception of it. If however you are one of the ones nearer the edge of the diagram then you might as well, within reason, pick what the hell you like.


Fair enough. To me, that'd be like sending off your dog with two broken legs to the races, but each to their own.


I don't mean to say I couldn't care less what I picked or what people thought of them and I usually try and pick some tracks with a higher profile, but ultimately these lists are a reflection of our own tastes are they not. Is it really so necessary to have the validation of others? Yes it's a competition, but the competition is not the be all and end all of what it's about. This seems deja vu from the conversation I had with Copehead last year! :)


Yeah this is what I wanted to say, essentially. People are just picking the same old stuff that they know gets results, without any of the fun, novelty and personality that lists in previous years have had. And people are voting for it. It's just too predictable to be any fun any more.
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Re: Bitter Recriminations 2009 - Now Bitterer Than Ever!

Postby mission » 28 Jan 2009, 01:38

Penk

Competitions go like that. Life goes like that.

Things change, people change to meet that change, innovation occurs even if not everyone agrees with it - or else it wouldn't be innovation.

This is my first go at the Cup and I am having a hoot.

You're burned out. I'm burned in. The dogs bark but the caravan passes.

I like it that the competition is pretty settled now as a competition and that folks are employing tactics; planning and measuring and base-covering.

Including the knowledge that some folk are time-poor, lazy, too set in their ways to investigate stuff outside their ken.

Fuck them. Do it for folks like me who read a list and weigh its aesthetic and if I like the heft and sway I will go out of my way to investigate the unknown, taking it as a recommendation from someone who has demonstrated (with their other choices) that they (a) have taste and (b) are worth giving some time to.
Goodness gracious me.

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Re: Bitter Recriminations 2009 - Now Bitterer Than Ever!

Postby Matty Red Sox » 28 Jan 2009, 01:40

penk! wrote:
Dr Modernist wrote:
Sir John Coan wrote:
Fair enough. To me, that'd be like sending off your dog with two broken legs to the races, but each to their own.


I don't mean to say I couldn't care less what I picked or what people thought of them and I usually try and pick some tracks with a higher profile, but ultimately these lists are a reflection of our own tastes are they not. Is it really so necessary to have the validation of others? Yes it's a competition, but the competition is not the be all and end all of what it's about. This seems deja vu from the conversation I had with Copehead last year! :)


Yeah this is what I wanted to say, essentially. People are just picking the same old stuff that they know gets results, without any of the fun, novelty and personality that lists in previous years have had. And people are voting for it. It's just too predictable to be any fun any more.


penk! wrote:
Balboa wrote:You take this all too seriously.


How do you construe that from the comment "I'm finding it hard to give a fuck any more"? :lol:

I'm just fatigued by all this actually - the majority of the lists seem to be repeats of last year, and the year before. The few lists that have tried to do something different, my own included, have been shot down by "music fans" who can't even be bothered to spare ten or fifteen minutes to listen to some, you know, music when it's served up on a youtube plate for them. The BCB Cup was fun, once.

You do sound like you are taking this seriously. My case for this:
You remember which are repeats.
You "tried to do something."
You served up music from youtube.
You keep replying about it.

I am sorry that your list isn't doing better. My feeling on why we see a lot of the same songs (or at least the same artists) is because people see to like the same music from year to year. I still like the Beatles Rain, Only Ones Another Girl, Another Planet, and Help You Ann by the Lyres, I won't be submitting them this year, but if someone has them on their list, they'll get votes from me, and others as well I am sure. We come to BCB because we like a lot of the same artists and sounds...people way off in a certain direction must not find as much to read on BCB, but must be thrilled when they find others who like the Screaming Cheetah Wheelies or whoever the hell they like.

And shouldn't this stuff really be on the bitter recriminations thread? I am moving this there....actually I just moved this from one of the round one voting threads.
the Eagles suck.

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Re: Bitter Recriminations 2009 - Now Bitterer Than Ever!

Postby Matty Red Sox » 28 Jan 2009, 01:44

mission wrote:Penk

Competitions go like that. Life goes like that.

Things change, people change to meet that change, innovation occurs even if not everyone agrees with it - or else it wouldn't be innovation.

This is my first go at the Cup and I am having a hoot.

You're burned out. I'm burned in. The dogs bark but the caravan passes.

I like it that the competition is pretty settled now as a competition and that folks are employing tactics; planning and measuring and base-covering.

Including the knowledge that some folk are time-poor, lazy, too set in their ways to investigate stuff outside their ken.


Fuck them. Do it for folks like me who read a list and weigh its aesthetic and if I like the heft and sway I will go out of my way to investigate the unknown, taking it as a recommendation from someone who has demonstrated (with their other choices) that they (a) have taste and (b) are worth giving some time to.


I really like what you had to say here... you get this. Last year I was swamped and had too much stuff going on, this year I can plan and get into it more... and enjoy other people's music. I hope that you go far - newbie, but it gets cut throat later...
the Eagles suck.

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Re: Bitter Recriminations 2009 - Now Bitterer Than Ever!

Postby mission » 28 Jan 2009, 01:58

If I make it through to round 2, I will take the fucking shackles off. You best hope your trad rock ass is outta the way.
Goodness gracious me.

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Re: Bitter Recriminations 2009 - Now Bitterer Than Ever!

Postby Matty Red Sox » 28 Jan 2009, 02:45

mission wrote:If I make it through to round 2, I will take the fucking shackles off. You best hope your trad rock ass is outta the way.


Ahhh you don't know my list then...I said above that I skipped an important BCB genre.
the Eagles suck.

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Re: Bitter Recriminations 2009 - Now Bitterer Than Ever!

Postby Bish Bash Bosh » 28 Jan 2009, 09:40

DWD wrote:
Ƙ wrote:I'm hoping the objective is I send a list of ten tracks I love to Griff.


the masked man wrote:So I did just pick ten songs I genuinely love. I've tried to pick a mixture of genres while ignoring stuff that's so obscure that it would encourage no-one to vote for me


Django wrote:That's pretty much where I'm coming from


Me too.
I picked 10 tracks I love but everyone will tell me it's shite.
Like I care. :|


As a newbie I've done exactly the same thing.
10 songs that I truly adore. If a couple of people can relate to my list,great.
For those who want to slag it off,go ahead. It will never change how I feel about
the songs that I have chosen-or what they really mean to me.
I'm not expecting to go very far in this competion, but I am interested to see what people
think of my list,be it good or bad.

And if I am lucky enough to win the damn thing I'll by all the competitors a large drink..... of their choice. ;)
He does exactly what it says on the tin

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Re: Bitter Recriminations 2009 - Now Bitterer Than Ever!

Postby the masked man » 28 Jan 2009, 10:33

Matty Red Sox wrote: No Beatles or Who yet, and only one sucky Stones tune.


This is an interesting point; it's almost like there are certain bands who are so obviously classic rock that BCBers feel they would now be a liability. They want to avoid the charge that their list is obviously (oh boy, here comes that word) canonical. By the same token, Joy Division haven't appeared yet; about three years ago, 'Atmosphere' seemed to be on every other list.

And yet, Scott Walker has been selected quite a few times, despite the way he polarises opinions on the board like no other singer. Wonder what the strategy is here? Do BCBers think he'll win over as many voters as he loses?

Early days yet - we've only seen 16 lists out of 64, after all - but it's worth keeping an eye on all of this.

Bungo the Mungo

Re: Bitter Recriminations 2009 - Now Bitterer Than Ever!

Postby Bungo the Mungo » 28 Jan 2009, 10:37

Quite a bit of Nick Cave, I notice, too.

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Re: Bitter Recriminations 2009 - Now Bitterer Than Ever!

Postby LeBaron » 28 Jan 2009, 13:22

Sir John Coan wrote:Quite a bit of Nick Cave, I notice, too.

It's BCB's shame!
Quaco wrote:Are you fucking high?

take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

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Re: Bitter Recriminations 2009 - Now Bitterer Than Ever!

Postby Django » 28 Jan 2009, 13:29

Baron I wrote:
Sir John Coan wrote:Quite a bit of Nick Cave, I notice, too.

It's BCB's shame!


The whole thing is a fucking disgrace!

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Re: Bitter Recriminations 2009 - Now Bitterer Than Ever!

Postby Copehead » 28 Jan 2009, 13:40

My rant from heat 8:

I got 4 minutes into the Popol Vuh track and got so angry that I decided B had won by default, is that some sort of joke? Even having a decent Kraftwerk track and a good find in the Chambers Brothtrs was never going to bring back that list from the pits.

Do people really think we have nothing better to do than listen to strings of 9 minute tracks? Brian Eno pissed me off on the last list, sure its lovely to listen to as background music - which was how it was intended - but putting on a list of music you want people to enjoy and vote for beggars belief life is too short. Luckily for the Eno fan my ire was only bubbling at that stage now it has boiled.

Too much long pointless arse guff on lists this year, my Stalinist tendencies have returned, Any list with 6+ min song on it is going to have to go some to get my vote. I refuse to believe that anyone on this board listened to the As list in its entirety in one sitting and I include the galoot who made it in that

I have must have spent 5-6 hours in the last 2 days most of it on the verge of tedium, I want to tap my feet not listen to 9 mins of tinkling.


It really is dissolving into chin stroking wankery this year. One chin stroke a list is more than sufficient to prove what a deep musicologist you are. I have looked on in despair at some of the lists this year due to my resolution to listen to peoples choices.

A number of the lists have been completely unlistenable as a group of songs, one paced and often over long.

Part time Punks almost made me weep with joy when I saw it when I realised I wasn't going to have to sit through another Tom Waits track - yes I know he's a genius.

So that's it for listening to peoples lists this year it is in many cases impossible if you wish to keep your sanity.

This is supposed to be enjoyable not a bloody chore
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Re: Bitter Recriminations 2009 - Now Bitterer Than Ever!

Postby Bungo the Mungo » 28 Jan 2009, 14:05

Copehead wrote:My rant from heat 8:

I got 4 minutes into the Popol Vuh track and got so angry that I decided B had won by default, is that some sort of joke? Even having a decent Kraftwerk track and a good find in the Chambers Brothtrs was never going to bring back that list from the pits.

Do people really think we have nothing better to do than listen to strings of 9 minute tracks? Brian Eno pissed me off on the last list, sure its lovely to listen to as background music - which was how it was intended - but putting on a list of music you want people to enjoy and vote for beggars belief life is too short. Luckily for the Eno fan my ire was only bubbling at that stage now it has boiled.

Too much long pointless arse guff on lists this year, my Stalinist tendencies have returned, Any list with 6+ min song on it is going to have to go some to get my vote. I refuse to believe that anyone on this board listened to the As list in its entirety in one sitting and I include the galoot who made it in that

I have must have spent 5-6 hours in the last 2 days most of it on the verge of tedium, I want to tap my feet not listen to 9 mins of tinkling.


It really is dissolving into chin stroking wankery this year. One chin stroke a list is more than sufficient to prove what a deep musicologist you are. I have looked on in despair at some of the lists this year due to my resolution to listen to peoples choices.

A number of the lists have been completely unlistenable as a group of songs, one paced and often over long.

Part time Punks almost made me weep with joy when I saw it when I realised I wasn't going to have to sit through another Tom Waits track - yes I know he's a genius.

So that's it for listening to peoples lists this year it is in many cases impossible if you wish to keep your sanity.

This is supposed to be enjoyable not a bloody chore


:lol:

You do talk some wank, but I have to say I enjoyed reading that a lot - it cracked me up. Keep it up!

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Re: Bitter Recriminations 2009 - Now Bitterer Than Ever!

Postby LeBaron » 28 Jan 2009, 14:06

Tom Waits is BCB's other shame.
He and Nic Cave are twins
You should be ashamed of yourself!
Quaco wrote:Are you fucking high?

take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

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Re: Bitter Recriminations 2009 - Now Bitterer Than Ever!

Postby Bungo the Mungo » 28 Jan 2009, 14:07

Django wrote:
Baron I wrote:
Sir John Coan wrote:Quite a bit of Nick Cave, I notice, too.

It's BCB's shame!


The whole thing is a fucking disgrace!


It fucking is!

Who should be banned?

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Re: Bitter Recriminations 2009 - Now Bitterer Than Ever!

Postby Copehead » 28 Jan 2009, 14:14

Sir John Coan wrote:
:lol:

You do talk some wank, but I have to say I enjoyed reading that a lot - it cracked me up. Keep it up!


have you tried listening to heat 8 list A?

I would say that it is virtually unlistenable en mass. I love Europe Endless as much as the next man but hot on the heels of 9 minutes of Popol Vuh noodling it nearly reduced me to tears.

All my good intentions about listening to all the tracks out the window.

I honestly recommend a time limit on your 10 tracks of around 35 minutes, the length of an old album, maximum. Some of the lists we are getting must be pushing the hour mark and a lot of it is tedious noodling or songs best reserved for the correct time and place, i.e. not in a list of 10 songs you hope others will enjoy in a sitting.

I honestly don't think many people put a lot of thought into how their lists would sound as a group to listen to in a sitting.

i know I didn't, but then I didn't post 10 minute Krautrock tracks either.
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Re: Bitter Recriminations 2009 - Now Bitterer Than Ever!

Postby Django » 28 Jan 2009, 14:16

Sir John Coan wrote:
Django wrote:
Baron I wrote:It's BCB's shame!


The whole thing is a fucking disgrace!


It fucking is!

Who should be banned?


You first.

Then Heilan Coo.

The bring Sea of Tunes back, rile him up and then ban him again.

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Re: Bitter Recriminations 2009 - Now Bitterer Than Ever!

Postby dgs » 28 Jan 2009, 14:17

I burnt mine to disc and play it in the car.

It's great.

I might even use it in the mix club.
I'm a panic depressive and suffer from manic attacks. :(