New music

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RcL
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Re: New music

Postby RcL » 14 Apr 2008, 13:35

The Modernist! wrote: Why stick some flavour of the month band on the list as some tokenistic gesture..


There's plenty of that goes on, only the month in question is August 1967. ;)

Only the religious threads are more guaranteed to get people bristling than any suggestion that people are not as with it as they once were.

In the cup, the lists are too small to be inclusive of time and genre, of course. But I do think posting a list of songs from 67-77 is not far off posting one of ten Tangerine Dream tracks.

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Re: New music

Postby Johnny Fartpants » 14 Apr 2008, 13:55

Copehead wrote:I have a real soft spot for shouty, girly pop music


Then, if you're not already familiar with them, may I suggest The Bobbyteens (like the Ramones only female) and Mikabomb (Japanese, female, shouty pop punk !!) ??

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Re: New music

Postby Diamond Dog » 14 Apr 2008, 14:32

Just for clarity, at no time have I suggested anyone has to vote any particular way. I merely said that someone who states they will actively vote against any list that does not contain a song from the past 20 years is stalinist.

I am more than happy with that opinion.
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Re: New music

Postby The Modernist » 14 Apr 2008, 17:45

RcL wrote:
The Modernist! wrote: Why stick some flavour of the month band on the list as some tokenistic gesture..


There's plenty of that goes on, only the month in question is August 1967. ;)

Only the religious threads are more guaranteed to get people bristling than any suggestion that people are not as with it as they once were.

In the cup, the lists are too small to be inclusive of time and genre, of course. But I do think posting a list of songs from 67-77 is not far off posting one of ten Tangerine Dream tracks.



Why though? If that 's what that person believes are their favourite songs wouldn't it be dishonest for them not to post it. And just because a list did encompass those years it wouldn't necessarilly make it narrow, you could find a huge variety of genres and moods from those years.

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RcL
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Re: New music

Postby RcL » 14 Apr 2008, 19:21

There's a huge variety of genres and moods in every year though. The chances of a person's ten or twenty favourite tracks coming from one decade is next to nil - unless they restrict themselves to only engaging with music from one era, and surely no one on BCB does that, not even our progsters, punks and primitives. People here are fetishistic and / or nostalgic about certain eras though, and I understand that. It's not dishonest to choose from a narrow band of years, but it is making a point, just as our prog lovers make a point in the cup each year.

I wouldn't vote against a list due to its timescales, but for me there's a balance between shared taste, variety, unexpectedness etc etc in voting, and breadth of taste (but not wilful breadth) in genres and eras are aspects I take into consideration.

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Re: New music

Postby Copehead » 15 Apr 2008, 01:15

Johnny Fartpants wrote:
Copehead wrote:I have a real soft spot for shouty, girly pop music


Then, if you're not already familiar with them, may I suggest The Bobbyteens (like the Ramones only female) and Mikabomb (Japanese, female, shouty pop punk !!) ??


You may indeed thanks for the tips, I especially like the idea of Japenese shouty pop :) both added to my Amazon list any album you'd recommend especially?
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Copehead
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Re: New music

Postby Copehead » 15 Apr 2008, 01:16

Diamond Dog wrote:Just for clarity, at no time have I suggested anyone has to vote any particular way. I merely said that someone who states they will actively vote against any list that does not contain a song from the past 20 years is stalinist.

I am more than happy with that opinion.


And I am more than happy with being the BCB Cup Stalinist.

In fact..................
Last edited by Copehead on 15 Apr 2008, 07:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New music

Postby brotherlouie » 15 Apr 2008, 09:05

Johnny Fartpants wrote: The Bobbyteens (like the Ramones only female)


I thought that job was being held down by the Donnas?

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Re: New music

Postby Ranking Ted » 15 Apr 2008, 23:39

The Modernist! wrote:Is it such a bad thing not to pick something new? I mean these are meant to be our favourite tracks of all time. This seems quite a vocal criticism of some lists, but why? Shouldn't it be about the inherent quality of the choices themselves? Why stick some flavour of the month band on the list as some tokenistic gesture..would that really improve its quality?
It doesn't bother me if some lists aren't particularly contemporary. I don't see why that should matter.

You're absolutely right, of course, the quality of the songs in question is everything here, when they were recorded is largely irrelevant.

For me, though, the Cup isn't about favourite tracks of all time, its about picking a random selection of 10 tracks from a virtually bottomless pit of music, unrestricted by any constraints. With this in mind, I get rather wearied when I see the same old standards trotted out. Its not that the songs may not be everything they're made up to be, its just that a cumulative effect of stutifying good taste is not what this is supposed to be about, I think. If someone has thrown in a recent pop song to provide contrast, I tend to look at that in terms of the overall 10 and the general aesthetic of the posters other choices. And whether it'd be good to listen to, like. So, tokenism = bad, individualism = good.

Can't believe I'm getting this analytical here. The end is truly nigh. :(

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Re: New music

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 16 Apr 2008, 16:02

Newer music is problematic, as the more modern you get - the less likely it is that others here actually know the same songs. One of the easiest ways to get bounced from the competition is to be too obscure, so it makes little sense to include a track by Ollabelle when you could use that spot for something from Village Green Preservation Society.
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Re: New music

Postby The Modernist » 16 Apr 2008, 17:54

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Newer music is problematic, as the more modern you get - the less likely it is that others here actually know the same songs. One of the easiest ways to get bounced from the competition is to be too obscure, so it makes little sense to include a track by Ollabelle when you could use that spot for something from Village Green Preservation Society.


Do you think? It strikes me the same people getting into a tizzy about people selecting "obscure" music (usually a 60's soul song they happen to have not heard of or somesuch) are the same people who will happily include some contemporary indie band so far underground that although they're from the UK they're actually living in Australia.

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Re: New music

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 16 Apr 2008, 19:20

The Modernist! wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Newer music is problematic, as the more modern you get - the less likely it is that others here actually know the same songs. One of the easiest ways to get bounced from the competition is to be too obscure, so it makes little sense to include a track by Ollabelle when you could use that spot for something from Village Green Preservation Society.


Do you think? It strikes me the same people getting into a tizzy about people selecting "obscure" music (usually a 60's soul song they happen to have not heard of or somesuch) are the same people who will happily include some contemporary indie band so far underground that although they're from the UK they're actually living in Australia.


It's all the same. Most cup lists use both obscure soul and obscure indie rock as filler. They generally earn their votes by including just enough BCB-approved classics.
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Re: New music

Postby toomanyhatz » 16 Apr 2008, 20:00

I tried to be diverse- my first 20 (though I never got to the last 5 I picked) had at least 2 from each of the last 6 decades, and I'm betting I'm the only one who did that. My reward for that? Every last one of my good friends here voting against me. Numerous complaints about my newest pick. And RcL- whose stance here I generally agree with- not only not voting for me, but paying no notice to my attempt to cover all decades, and voting for my opponent in round one, who indeed took mostly 70s and 80s stuff. Bitter? Me? :evil:

The thing is, the one that wins will be the one that pleases across the board. Some care that new stuff be included. Some just want multiple genres. Some will punish for lists that are "too white." Some just care that the songs be good. I care about all of the above, yet there's no formula for what works for me.

But I think this cup's a good microcosm of the board as a whole- the bottom line is what matters to people is a personal thing- and the one that pleases the most people will be the one that's good across the board. Which I'm happy about. It probably won't miss out on anything- old, new, genres, what-have-you. And I vote based on one thing and one thing only- what matters to me. I don't care what you matters to you, or what you think should matter to me. As it should be.
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Re: New music

Postby whodathunkit » 16 Apr 2008, 20:24

toomanyhatz wrote:I tried to be diverse- my first 20 (though I never got to the last 5 I picked) had at least 2 from each of the last 6 decades, and I'm betting I'm the only one who did that. My reward for that? Every last one of my good friends here voting against me. Numerous complaints about my newest pick. And RcL- whose stance here I generally agree with- not only not voting for me, but paying no notice to my attempt to cover all decades, and voting for my opponent in round one, who indeed took mostly 70s and 80s stuff. Bitter? Me? :evil:



Woah, a little bit too much post-match analysis there, Dave! I get the sense there are some names being noted in a little book somewhere :D Come the revolution........

Personally I don't think the Cup says anything particularly profound about the state of BCB. It's just a chance to be very rude to each other about that most sacred of idols = our musical tastes.
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Re: New music

Postby harvey k-tel » 16 Apr 2008, 21:07

whodathunkit wrote:
Personally I don't think the Cup says anything particularly profound about the state of BCB. It's just a chance to be very rude to each other about that most sacred of idols = our musical tastes.


Yup. I think people take it a tad too seriously. You'd think that all the science being expended in figuring out what comprises a winning list could have been used for a more worthy cause, like inventing a car that runs on broken jewel cases or something.
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Re: New music

Postby C » 16 Apr 2008, 22:57

It's because of all this nonsense that I won't be competing in future years

A sad loss?

I think so



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Re: New music

Postby PENK » 16 Apr 2008, 23:00

whodathunkit wrote: It's just a chance to be very rude to each other about that most sacred of idols = our musical tastes.


This bit's certainly true. I've taken great pleasure in making disparaging comments about lists I've actually quite liked.

That's not to say I won't proclaim myself The Most Amazing Poster There Ever Was if I win the thing, though.
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Re: New music

Postby toomanyhatz » 16 Apr 2008, 23:05

Harvey K-Tel wrote:
whodathunkit wrote:
Personally I don't think the Cup says anything particularly profound about the state of BCB. It's just a chance to be very rude to each other about that most sacred of idols = our musical tastes.


Yup. I think people take it a tad too seriously. You'd think that all the science being expended in figuring out what comprises a winning list could have been used for a more worthy cause, like inventing a car that runs on broken jewel cases or something.


Oh, don't take other's seriousness level so seriously! :lol:

I don't think anyone would say anything we do here is worth a damn in the "grand" scheme of things. But most of the world wastes their time in front of the TV. We do it in front of the computer screen. Vive le differance.

I think it's a big loss if we lose Carlsson. As I said before, I don't give a damn why he does the lists he does- to say anyone's is more valid than anyone else's is just plain dumb. The second I start really taking this stuff seriously, would someone please knock me in the head?
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Re: New music

Postby Copehead » 17 Apr 2008, 01:17

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Newer music is problematic, as the more modern you get - the less likely it is that others here actually know the same songs. One of the easiest ways to get bounced from the competition is to be too obscure, so it makes little sense to include a track by Ollabelle when you could use that spot for something from Village Green Preservation Society.


That's a good point, I tried to pick songs from every decade of teh last 50 years, and I tried to pick stuff I consider mainstream in popularity, but if you think about it how many people on this board will have heard I luv U by Dizzee Rascal or No Pussy Blues by Grinderman?

I would guess the majority of 50-60 people voting won't have heard those songs but I consider them well known.

I will have to re-castthe list next year. But he trouble is you also get problems if you pick songs everybody is bound to know, your list ends up looking like a Fab FM playlist.

There is a fine line to walk there and some walkit better than others.
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