A Modest Proposal

User avatar
PENK
Midnight to Six Man
Posts: 34581
Joined: 07 Aug 2004, 20:12
Location: Stockholm

Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby PENK » 05 Mar 2014, 16:56

The Modernist wrote:I think the idea with not starting with ten is to discourage the catch-all lists.


Six is too few. People will be less willing to take risks because the less familiar songs will stick out more and be more likely to lose votes.
Copehead wrote:I have met Gruff Rhys - although he claimed he wasn't and that he couldn't speak Welsh, as I spoke to him in Welsh, but it was him lying bastard.

User avatar
der nister
Posts: 15564
Joined: 30 Sep 2008, 18:42

Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby der nister » 05 Mar 2014, 17:21

I don't see why dedicated music fans such as we have here
cannot come up with 5-10 new songs each round
with no holdovers from previous rounds
It's kinda depressing for a music forum to be proud of not knowing musicians.

User avatar
Count Machuki
BCB Cup Champion 2013
Posts: 38051
Joined: 11 Jun 2005, 15:28
Location: ~84 bpm

Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby Count Machuki » 05 Mar 2014, 18:03

zphage wrote:I don't see why dedicated music fans such as we have here
cannot come up with 5-10 new songs each round
with no holdovers from previous rounds



and how people with such encyclopedic knowledge of music need to listen to each and every song each and every round to know if it's any good

Bring back the old rules!
Let U be the set of all united sets, K be the set of the kids and D be the set of things divided.
Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D

The Modernist

Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby The Modernist » 05 Mar 2014, 18:20

penk wrote:
The Modernist wrote:I think the idea with not starting with ten is to discourage the catch-all lists.


Six is too few. People will be less willing to take risks because the less familiar songs will stick out more and be more likely to lose votes.


I don't agree. I think the type of people that have taken "risks", as you put it, will continue to do so because that's just how they see music, whilst the ones with more conventional taste will continue to produce lists that reflect that.

These days I'm not even sure what constitutes taking a "risk" in the BCB cup. Once upon a time it might have been picking an obscure African funk track but these days that's par for the course. Probably the "riskiest" thing you can do now is pick a commercial chart track, even though the style of music that involves is quite mainstream.

The Modernist

Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby The Modernist » 05 Mar 2014, 18:25

zphage wrote:I don't see why dedicated music fans such as we have here
cannot come up with 5-10 new songs each round
with no holdovers from previous rounds


I don't think the objections have anything to do with people feeling they can't do that, it's more that I think people were getting bored wading through lists of 20 plus tracks that were increasingly looking the same. We've had seven or eight years of that after all.
People need to think not just about what you enjoy in submitting your list, but also about the pleasure of looking at the ties. That's just as important.

User avatar
Polishgirl
Posts: 8799
Joined: 21 Dec 2009, 22:06

Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby Polishgirl » 05 Mar 2014, 19:14

penk wrote:
The Modernist wrote:I think the idea with not starting with ten is to discourage the catch-all lists.


Six is too few. People will be less willing to take risks because the less familiar songs will stick out more and be more likely to lose votes.


I don't agree. From what I see of the voting, people are LESS likely to garner votes if they do the lazy/obvious/safe thing.

And you're much more exposed in only having 6 tracks to offer -I think it makes it a much more interesting challenge.
echolalia wrote: I despise Prefab Sprout. It will be decades before “hot dog, jumping frog, Albuquerque” is surpassed as the most terrible lyric in pop history. That fucking bastard ruined all three things for me forever.

User avatar
PENK
Midnight to Six Man
Posts: 34581
Joined: 07 Aug 2004, 20:12
Location: Stockholm

Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby PENK » 05 Mar 2014, 21:04

With only six tracks, anything in a less popular genre or style will be much more likely to lose votes than when it is surrounded by more varied material. It means that the opportunity to put personality into the list is much more limited. Those of us who like making a playlist of different styles will suffer. Any list hoping to get through has always had to have a couple of big names on there and this will remain the case: it is the more personal, idiosyncratic and imaginative choices that will be jettisoned.

I was not keen on the rule changes this year but went ahead with the tournament anyway despite my misgivings, and my misgivings remain. I feel that a lot of the fun of the Cup was missing as it was harder to really identify individual lists when they kept changing so much. When they were growing instead, they had much more identity and it added a lot to the surprise and interest of each new round.

I am all for a rule change as everybody is tired of bloated and overlong lists in the latter stages. But cutting the lists down right at the beginning also removes interest and fun from the competition because it limits one's options.

Start with ten and reduce the number of additions. Two per round, or three/four with one/two removals.
Copehead wrote:I have met Gruff Rhys - although he claimed he wasn't and that he couldn't speak Welsh, as I spoke to him in Welsh, but it was him lying bastard.

The Modernist

Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby The Modernist » 05 Mar 2014, 21:11

penk wrote:With only six tracks, anything in a less popular genre or style will be much more likely to lose votes than when it is surrounded by more varied material. It means that the opportunity to put personality into the list is much more limited. Those of us who like making a playlist of different styles will suffer. Any list hoping to get through has always had to have a couple of big names on there and this will remain the case: it is the more personal, idiosyncratic and imaginative choices that will be jettisoned.
.


Or less tracks will mean that more obscure choices will get more individual attention which may well be a good thing.
I don't think the outcome you suggest is by any means certain.

User avatar
never/ever
Posts: 22712
Joined: 27 Jun 2008, 14:21
Location: Journeying through a burning brain

Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby never/ever » 05 Mar 2014, 21:17

The Modernist wrote:
penk wrote:With only six tracks, anything in a less popular genre or style will be much more likely to lose votes than when it is surrounded by more varied material. It means that the opportunity to put personality into the list is much more limited. Those of us who like making a playlist of different styles will suffer. Any list hoping to get through has always had to have a couple of big names on there and this will remain the case: it is the more personal, idiosyncratic and imaginative choices that will be jettisoned.
.


Or less tracks will mean that more obscure choices will get more individual attention which may well be a good thing.
I don't think the outcome you suggest is by any means certain.


I'm in agreement with penk here. I don;t think an initial 6 is enough for me.
I understand Polishgirl's misgivings about too many starter tracks to have to wade through but so many voters make snap decisions without listening (properly) to tracks. Perhaps a longer voting period may help in that regards.
Ever notice that anyone going slower than you is an idiot, but anyone going faster is a maniac?."

George Carlin

User avatar
Goat Boy
Bogarting the joint
Posts: 32252
Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 12:11
Location: In the perfumed garden

Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby Goat Boy » 05 Mar 2014, 21:19

6 tracks, 10 tracks, I don't think it makes much difference to be honest. A percentage will always not bother to listen to tracks especially when you have 64 lists.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

The Modernist

Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby The Modernist » 05 Mar 2014, 21:31

never/ever wrote: Perhaps a longer voting period may help in that regards.


THat's the last thing we need, it drags on too long as it is. Two days should be long enough to listen to the tracks surely.

User avatar
never/ever
Posts: 22712
Joined: 27 Jun 2008, 14:21
Location: Journeying through a burning brain

Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby never/ever » 05 Mar 2014, 21:33

The Modernist wrote:
never/ever wrote: Perhaps a longer voting period may help in that regards.


That's the last thing we need, it drags on too long as it is. Two days should be long enough to listen to the tracks surely.


Considering the number of people dropping off on voting, presumably because they didn't have time to log on, something to consider at least. Or post more ties at the beginning of the week and let them run a bit longer.....
Ever notice that anyone going slower than you is an idiot, but anyone going faster is a maniac?."

George Carlin

Bungo the Mungo

Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby Bungo the Mungo » 05 Mar 2014, 21:49

Oh GET a FUCKING LIFE!!!

User avatar
never/ever
Posts: 22712
Joined: 27 Jun 2008, 14:21
Location: Journeying through a burning brain

Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby never/ever » 05 Mar 2014, 21:50

frugale wrote:Oh GET a FUCKING LIFE!!!



:lol:
Ever notice that anyone going slower than you is an idiot, but anyone going faster is a maniac?."

George Carlin

User avatar
GoogaMooga
custodian of oldies
Posts: 23688
Joined: 28 Sep 2010, 05:23
Location: Denmark

Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby GoogaMooga » 05 Mar 2014, 22:34

Nice to see more voters in the finals, must make it feel more like a victory (and defeat)
1966 and all that

User avatar
Duncan
Posts: 2009
Joined: 26 Aug 2003, 11:39
Location: 123 Fake Street

Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby Duncan » 05 Mar 2014, 23:35

I think that it's probably a good time to retire the competition.
Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb...

User avatar
fange
Posts: 12509
Joined: 20 Jan 2010, 11:30
Location: 香港

Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby fange » 06 Mar 2014, 00:31

Goat Boy wrote:6 tracks, 10 tracks, I don't think it makes much difference to be honest. A percentage will always not bother to listen to tracks especially when you have 64 lists.


Yeah, i think so too.

The substitute system this year has been interesting tactically and fun, but i'm still in the camp of keeping the songs that have been chosen. My own preference would be maybe an 8 song initial list, with 2 songs added for each subsequent round by winners. Keeps the total under 20, but still with room for a nice mix of stuff.
Jonny Spencer wrote:
fange wrote:I've got my quad pants on and i'm ready for some Cock.


By CHRIST you're a man after my own sideways sausage, Ange!