A Modest Proposal

The Modernist

Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby The Modernist » 03 Mar 2014, 21:05

Samoan wrote:As the Cup is still running and the Final approaches, perhaps it's a little premature to kick off a thread discussing major changes ?

Personally, I feel it's rather disrespectful to A, tmm, who has taken on the onerous task of organising and running the competition for yet another year on the run.


It's not disrespectful at all and given we never had an opportunity to discuss any changes this year, then I'd say we'd better take our opportunity while we can.

The Modernist

Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby The Modernist » 03 Mar 2014, 21:10

the masked man wrote:
never/ever wrote:The biggest problem I have is that all lists, outwardly, would look the same. My preference in voting is always for the lists that buck the trends a bit. I enjoyed the heck out of Nick's list this year because it made monkeys out the standard entries this year. It may never win but more lists like that and we finally see a breakthrough in the same-old same-old mouldy foundation of the 'tasteful lists'.
Go the iconoclasts of BCB!


I hear you. The problem is that these lists tend to get as far as Round Three before suffering a loss to a standard list of BCB-approved 60s/70s songs. The best cup I've curated was when the final ended up with Moddie and Bleep faced each other with highly idiosyncratic lists, but that was a real exception.


Thanks.
I think to be fair to this year's finalists Pepper and Nev, their lists seem both quite individualistic and true to what I know of their tastes. I don't think they've been playing to the gallery..which is why some people have been pretty dismissive of their lists!

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Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby kalowski II: The Revenge » 03 Mar 2014, 22:03

never/ever wrote:The biggest problem I have is that all lists, outwardly, would look the same. My preference in voting is always for the lists that buck the trends a bit. I enjoyed the heck out of Nick's list this year because it made monkeys out the standard entries this year. It may never win but more lists like that and we finally see a breakthrough in the same-old same-old mouldy foundation of the 'tasteful lists'.
Go the iconoclasts of BCB!


:lol:

In the first round Nick's list of trad Alt classics had to go to a tie-break to win (he submitted another Q approved staple to get through) and in the next he only squeaked through when his partner voted for him with only minutes to go - hardly making monkeys. The first list was zphages usual motley crew of the deservedly obscure, the second fanges groovy entry. Both lists were far more idiosyncratic than the one that got through.

As ever n/e is railing against a BCB faction that has very little sway and since skope's hounding from the board barely exists at all.
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Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby kalowski II: The Revenge » 03 Mar 2014, 22:16

Regarding the format I think it's pretty good, it allows a nice concentrated hit of what the poster considers essential and avoids most of the box-ticking self-congratulation that had previously marred the later rounds.
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Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby The Modernist » 03 Mar 2014, 22:26

clive gash wrote:Regarding the format I think it's pretty good.


You would say that! :lol:

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Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby kalowski II: The Revenge » 03 Mar 2014, 22:27

:o
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Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby Count Machuki » 04 Mar 2014, 00:11

or we could just put things right and go back to the proper way
just sayin'
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Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby GoogaMooga » 04 Mar 2014, 03:41

Those two Trevor Horns were the centerpiece of my list, and I like to think - of the whole cup. But two entries by the same name will be punished!
1966 and all that

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Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby The Modernist » 04 Mar 2014, 04:33

GoogaMooga wrote:Those two Trevor Horns were the centerpiece of my list, and I like to think - of the whole cup. But two entries by the same name will be punished!


Even Rayge would be hard pressed to come up with a format that would accommodate those as good choices!

Perhaps 'your list must contain two songs by an ex-Buggles producer', even then you would probably have been defeated by a list that contained a couple of remixes of "Moments In Love"! :lol:

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Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby The Modernist » 04 Mar 2014, 04:37

Count Machuki wrote:or we could just put things right and go back to the proper way
just sayin'


I've welcomed not having to wade through 30 tracks personally.

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Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby PENK » 04 Mar 2014, 07:32

I didn't like the new format too much. I felt that lists didn't have the chance to develop a personality, with songs constantly disappearing. By the later rounds some lists were almost unrecognisable from the ones we saw at the beginning.
I preferred the old format, but that too was flawed and in need of a shake-up, with lists simply getting too long and boring. How about this idea: in each round, contestants must add four songs and remove two. it combines this year's format with the classic style, and allows the lists to grow and build without getting too unwieldy, while retaining the risky tactical game of choosing what to remove. I think it's a great idea myself and will be officially putting it to the Cup Committee.
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Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby never/ever » 04 Mar 2014, 08:09

How about just adding one song? Isn't this contest really about lists matching up to several others anyway?
Ever notice that anyone going slower than you is an idiot, but anyone going faster is a maniac?."

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Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby never/ever » 04 Mar 2014, 08:31

clive gash wrote:
:lol:

In the first round Nick's list of trad Alt classics had to go to a tie-break to win (he submitted another Q approved staple to get through) and in the next he only squeaked through when his partner voted for him with only minutes to go - hardly making monkeys. The first list was zphages usual motley crew of the deservedly obscure, the second fanges groovy entry. Both lists were far more idiosyncratic than the one that got through
As ever n/e is railing against a BCB faction that has very little sway and since skope's hounding from the board barely exists at all.


:lol:

'As ever' I enjoy the level of seriousness this jolly jape gets from a group of individuals that and as far as 'railing' goes, I was surely poking big fun at how a 'narrow' list would get to the third round! Get over yourself man, if you have to use things like 'BCB faction' or mention that 'Nick won because his wife voted for him at the last moment'...sweet Jesus.
As far as I know Skope took his ball all by himself and left on his own accord, citing that he needed some time off. So if you are implying I hounded him off in some way, ask the ones who know him.
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Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby Bungo the Mungo » 04 Mar 2014, 10:22

GoogaMooga wrote:Those two Trevor Horns were the centerpiece of my list, and I like to think - of the whole cup.


:lol:

Does 'modesty is a virtue' not translate into Danish?

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Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby GoogaMooga » 04 Mar 2014, 10:31

frugale wrote:
GoogaMooga wrote:Those two Trevor Horns were the centerpiece of my list, and I like to think - of the whole cup.


:lol:

Does 'modesty is a virtue' not translate into Danish?


Errrmm... can't think of a direct translation, but I am sure we have some similar saying. Those two THO tracks leapt at me, (a) they were fresh takes on bona fide classics, and (b) they were produced "straight faced" by the mighty Trevor Horn! :)
1966 and all that

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Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby Copehead » 04 Mar 2014, 10:52

the masked man wrote:
never/ever wrote:The biggest problem I have is that all lists, outwardly, would look the same. My preference in voting is always for the lists that buck the trends a bit. I enjoyed the heck out of Nick's list this year because it made monkeys out the standard entries this year. It may never win but more lists like that and we finally see a breakthrough in the same-old same-old mouldy foundation of the 'tasteful lists'.
Go the iconoclasts of BCB!


I hear you. The problem is that these lists tend to get as far as Round Three before suffering a loss to a standard list of BCB-approved 60s/70s songs. The best cup I've curated was when the final ended up with Moddie and Bleep faced each other with highly idiosyncratic lists, but that was a real exception.


I can't be bothered to vote anymore because by the time the SFs came round the 4 lists were pretty much indentikits

There was actually nothing to distinguish between them as far as I could see although some people seemed to be getting very exercised by minutiae that was beyond my level of discernment
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Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby Copehead » 04 Mar 2014, 10:53

The Modernist wrote:
Count Machuki wrote:or we could just put things right and go back to the proper way
just sayin'


I've welcomed not having to wade through 30 tracks personally.


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Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby The Fish » 04 Mar 2014, 13:54

I personally don't see the need to remove songs, especially if there are no comments posted giving you any clue as to what is a vote loser. You are then trying to second guess,

Why would you put any track in your original selection if you thought it didn't deserve to stay there. Is anyone going to pick a substandard track merely so it can be removed. Also it was not obvious what had changed each time causing one to go back and check.

That said I look forward to something new each round and can see that the long ever growing lists of the past were not a good idea.

My vote would be for 6 in the first round and then add 2 each round thereafter. 6 means you have to think a bit more about your list. It is enough to impose your personality but not enough to cherry pick every genre. Adding two each round means you will only need to check the last two on each list and as the track numbers increase the number of ties decreases, so the final will be a workable 16 tracks each.

Just my two cents. I am definitely in the "bit of fun" camp so I'll be here next year no matter what.
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Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby The Fish » 04 Mar 2014, 13:58

The above comment was baed on issues with previous years as what has become the template. I would also be OK with going to the other extreme of putting forward a completely new list (of 6 say) in each round.
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Re: A Modest Proposal

Postby The Modernist » 04 Mar 2014, 15:37

The Fish wrote:
My vote would be for 6 in the first round and then add 2 each round thereafter. 6 means you have to think a bit more about your list. It is enough to impose your personality but not enough to cherry pick every genre. Adding two each round means you will only need to check the last two on each list and as the track numbers increase the number of ties decreases, so the final will be a workable 16 tracks each.


I'd be cool with that.