What Have You Discovered? 2014 Edition

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Loki
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Re: What Have You Discovered? 2014 Edition

Postby Loki » 12 Feb 2014, 17:29

And then there's the Canadian contingent!


Oh. That's just me.




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Re: What Have You Discovered? 2014 Edition

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 12 Feb 2014, 22:44

The Modernist wrote:I'd say roughly there are four blocs, they aren't totally separate and there is some crossover, but the four voting blocs are: firstly a classic, canon, roots bloc -they look for the familiar and the canon stuff in their voting, there is a second bloc who privilege old soul, jazz, a bit of country, they'll also be partial to the odd critically approved band..they seldom venture past the late 70s and are primarily US, A UK bloc who look for pop, post-punk and indie that reminds them of their student days (they tend to just post A or B) and lastly a smaller bloc who have obscurer tastes and are looking for more adventurous selections, this last bloc is often seen as influential but isn't really, unless it's to swing a tight match. Of course there are individuals who don't really fit into any of the categories, but I reckon 80% do.

If you can be bothered it's quite easy to come up with a spread which will have a broad appeal to three of those blocs and that will always be enough to win. I've seen lists this year that have been very much constructed (knowingly I'd say) to have that appeal. Me, I'd rather pick what I want and sod the voters!


If we roughly accept your definition of the voting blocs, I'll challenge the idea that appealing to three of them can lead to a win. If the UK post-punk bloc is not one of the three - you are toast.
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Re: What Have You Discovered? 2014 Edition

Postby toomanyhatz » 12 Feb 2014, 23:09

sloopjohnc wrote:Aslan has some good credenitals - got his BA from Santa Clara, a Jesuit school and his Masters from Harvard and PhD from Santa Barbara, a surfing school.


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Re: What Have You Discovered? 2014 Edition

Postby The Modernist » 12 Feb 2014, 23:45

VRZ Robotz wrote:
The Modernist wrote:I'd say roughly there are four blocs, they aren't totally separate and there is some crossover, but the four voting blocs are: firstly a classic, canon, roots bloc -they look for the familiar and the canon stuff in their voting, there is a second bloc who privilege old soul, jazz, a bit of country, they'll also be partial to the odd critically approved band..they seldom venture past the late 70s and are primarily US, A UK bloc who look for pop, post-punk and indie that reminds them of their student days (they tend to just post A or B) and lastly a smaller bloc who have obscurer tastes and are looking for more adventurous selections, this last bloc is often seen as influential but isn't really, unless it's to swing a tight match. Of course there are individuals who don't really fit into any of the categories, but I reckon 80% do.

If you can be bothered it's quite easy to come up with a spread which will have a broad appeal to three of those blocs and that will always be enough to win. I've seen lists this year that have been very much constructed (knowingly I'd say) to have that appeal. Me, I'd rather pick what I want and sod the voters!


If we roughly accept your definition of the voting blocs, I'll challenge the idea that appealing to three of them can lead to a win. If the UK post-punk bloc is not one of the three - you are toast.


They are certainly not numerically larger than the other three put together.

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Re: What Have You Discovered? 2014 Edition

Postby toomanyhatz » 13 Feb 2014, 00:08

The Modernist wrote:
VRZ Robotz wrote:If we roughly accept your definition of the voting blocs, I'll challenge the idea that appealing to three of them can lead to a win. If the UK post-punk bloc is not one of the three - you are toast.


They are certainly not numerically larger than the other three put together.


I'm quite convinced they are. Look back at past winners.

None of the other voting blocs are deal-breakers. They matter, and you need to appeal to at least one of them, but there's only one category that you can't win without at least paying lip service to. That is a fact.
sloopjohnc wrote:Aslan has some good credenitals - got his BA from Santa Clara, a Jesuit school and his Masters from Harvard and PhD from Santa Barbara, a surfing school.


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Re: What Have You Discovered? 2014 Edition

Postby Bungo the Mungo » 13 Feb 2014, 00:32

Oh stop it, all of you! this is RIDICULOUS!

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Re: What Have You Discovered? 2014 Edition

Postby The Modernist » 13 Feb 2014, 00:43

toomanyhatz wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
VRZ Robotz wrote:If we roughly accept your definition of the voting blocs, I'll challenge the idea that appealing to three of them can lead to a win. If the UK post-punk bloc is not one of the three - you are toast.


They are certainly not numerically larger than the other three put together.


I'm quite convinced they are. Look back at past winners.

None of the other voting blocs are deal-breakers. They matter, and you need to appeal to at least one of them, but there's only one category that you can't win without at least paying lip service to. That is a fact.


You and Davey are getting paranoid!

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Re: What Have You Discovered? 2014 Edition

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 13 Feb 2014, 02:14

Nah. But I'm resigned to never winning the cup - and I am fully capable of appealing to the other three blocs you mentioned without feeling the least bit compromised.

Case in point:
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=122083
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Re: What Have You Discovered? 2014 Edition

Postby toomanyhatz » 13 Feb 2014, 03:56

Yep. The entire bottom part of that list is a bunch of obscurities that most BCBers would never vote for, and would complain about besides. And yet it won over the eclectic list. Why? Front-loaded with BCB faves.

That's an extreme example and perhaps (hopefully!) it won't get that much farther because it's so obviously geared to that voting bloc, but the fact that it's made it this far while so many interesting lists fell in the 2nd round should tell you something.
sloopjohnc wrote:Aslan has some good credenitals - got his BA from Santa Clara, a Jesuit school and his Masters from Harvard and PhD from Santa Barbara, a surfing school.


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Re: What Have You Discovered? 2014 Edition

Postby PENK » 13 Feb 2014, 06:16

VRZ Robotz wrote:Case in point:
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=122083


Votes with comments:
A 9-16 B

Votes without comments:
A 17-9 B

I'm not sure it's post-punk that's the dealbreaker; I think it's just that you need a certain degree of alt-canon comfort to win over these silent assassins.
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Re: What Have You Discovered? 2014 Edition

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 13 Feb 2014, 06:23

What's the functional difference between post-punk and alt-canon?
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Re: What Have You Discovered? 2014 Edition

Postby PENK » 13 Feb 2014, 06:49

Trendy '60s things.
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Re: What Have You Discovered? 2014 Edition

Postby The Modernist » 13 Feb 2014, 07:50

VRZ Robotz wrote:Nah. But I'm resigned to never winning the cup - and I am fully capable of appealing to the other three blocs you mentioned without feeling the least bit compromised.

Case in point:
http://bcb-board.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic ... 7&t=122083


Well there are also subtle shifts in the voting blocs from year to year, so some years some blocs are more powerful than others. It only takes a few voters to drop out or decide to play to shift the power of one particular bloc from one to another. Perhaps this year, which has seen a drop in numbers, has seen a shift to make the indie/post-punk vote more powerful. But here's an example from last year of a list that's similar to your example, but which went out in the second round. It still had the same support frrom the same people, but that wasn't enough to make it through.
http://www.bcb-board.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=115979

Can you win the cup without having a list that strongly appeals to that crowd? Yes -I did it, but you need a certain amount of luck. I had some fortuitous draws and then met opponents in the late rounds who had a broadly similar aesthetic to me -Goat Boy, Bleep -so I didn't have to compete with the usual kind of list. For you to win it, you'd need a similar trajectory to the final. It is admittedly a long shot, but sometimes you can get lucky.

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Re: What Have You Discovered? 2014 Edition

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 13 Feb 2014, 08:15

Your example proves my point, Moddie. A made no attempt to appeal to any other bloc and still managed an extremely competitive vote tally there. Meanwhile B (the eventual winner of the cup) made sure to make concessions to that crowd with The Chills, Pigbag and that godawful electronica track.

Had A thrown in a few token attempts at broadening their base, Machuki likely would have been stopped there.
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Re: What Have You Discovered? 2014 Edition

Postby The Modernist » 13 Feb 2014, 08:37

VRZ Robotz wrote:Your example proves my point, Moddie. A made no attempt to appeal to any other bloc and still managed an extremely competitive vote tally there. Meanwhile B (the eventual winner of the cup) made sure to make concessions to that crowd with The Chills, Pigbag and that godawful electronica track.

Had A thrown in a few token attempts at broadening their base, Machuki likely would have been stopped there.



It doesn't prove your point at all! :lol: He didn't get their vote in that tie yet he still won. In the example B had an appeal to bloc 3 (the US soul, rhythm and blues brigade) and bloc 4 (the obscuro brigade), whereas A only appealed to bloc 2 (the alt.rock/post-punk vote), so B got more votes than A.
Incidentally something like Juan Atkins is too weird and clubby to appeal to that crowd. It's hardly something you'd place in the alt.rock canon.

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Re: What Have You Discovered? 2014 Edition

Postby Buddha B-Rex » 14 Feb 2014, 04:54

penk wrote:Oh, and Buddha, I'm fine with expressions of joy, but I'm not putting the sound of someone reaching orgasm on my Cup list* so I don't see why we should applaud others putting boring old gospel on there either.


*unlike whoever picked Donna Summer, I guess


Hey, Penk! I see Sister Rosetta has been replaced with this! :lol:

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Re: What Have You Discovered? 2014 Edition

Postby Goat Boy » 14 Feb 2014, 14:25

It's no Vienna, is it?
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Re: What Have You Discovered? 2014 Edition

Postby Buddha B-Rex » 14 Feb 2014, 16:53

Thank Heaven for small favo(u)rs. Worst facial hair ever in the history of facial hair. It makes the Hitler 'stache look fashionable. Horrible song, as well.
Freak out. Far out.

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Re: What Have You Discovered? 2014 Edition

Postby The Modernist » 14 Feb 2014, 17:11

Whilst I can't defend the tache, I've always rather liked 'Vienna'. Of course it's preposterous, but it's also rather unique and it pulls off its icy European grandiosity with some aplomb. Frankly, there's a lot more invention and imagination in the record than there is in a lot of the stuff that's lauded on BCB, but it's from that era in British pop that dare not speak its name.

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Re: What Have You Discovered? 2014 Edition

Postby pcqgod » 17 Feb 2014, 01:06

Travis Wammack. Where has he been all my life?
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