Americans! what have you learned about the UK?

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Minnie the Minx
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Re: Americans! what have you learned about the UK?

Postby Minnie the Minx » 27 Jul 2012, 18:51

sloopjohnc wrote:
TopCat G wrote:btw. you're not a real sports fan because you don't get football. :twisted:




I think soccer players should just get over it and wear dresses.

Their fans too!

As the game is played and watched by women, you'll find they already do. ;)
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Re: Americans! what have you learned about the UK?

Postby Diamond Dog » 27 Jul 2012, 18:52

Minnie the Minx wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:
TopCat G wrote:btw. you're not a real sports fan because you don't get football. :twisted:




I think soccer players should just get over it and wear dresses.

Their fans too!

As the game is played and watched by women, you'll find they already do. ;)


Where 'played' becomes a whole new thing.... ;)
In other words an extended look into *******’s head, and it seems to have some pretty good things in it (who among us is totally free of mental garbage?) It’s nice to see that he is confident enough so he can play some blues again,I’d like to hear more.

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Re: Americans! what have you learned about the UK?

Postby sloopjohnc » 27 Jul 2012, 18:52

Poppypoobah wrote:We see a complaint as something that we need to fix, not as a fun way to pass the time.


I think the Brits would be more into the Olympics if whining had been made a competitive sport with medals.

I thought the host country got to pick a trial competition?

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Re: Americans! what have you learned about the UK?

Postby Diamond Dog » 27 Jul 2012, 18:53

sloopjohnc wrote:
Poppypoobah wrote:We see a complaint as something that we need to fix, not as a fun way to pass the time.


I think the Brits would be more into the Olympics if whining had been made a competitive sport with medals.

I thought the host country got to pick a trial competition?


Was Atlanta's "Traffic Congestion"?
In other words an extended look into *******’s head, and it seems to have some pretty good things in it (who among us is totally free of mental garbage?) It’s nice to see that he is confident enough so he can play some blues again,I’d like to hear more.

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Re: Americans! what have you learned about the UK?

Postby Qube » 27 Jul 2012, 19:00

The thing I can't get into with American football is the sheer stop-start nature of the game, things are only live for a few seconds at a time before it all has to stop again and you have to wait minutes for everyone to get ready again, only to have another few seconds of real-time action, I don't really understand how anyone can be bothered (I've tried...).

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Re: Americans! what have you learned about the UK?

Postby Diamond Dog » 27 Jul 2012, 19:09

It's a maximum of 35 seconds from one play to the next. Have a look how long it takes to take a free kick on the edge of the box in football these days!
In other words an extended look into *******’s head, and it seems to have some pretty good things in it (who among us is totally free of mental garbage?) It’s nice to see that he is confident enough so he can play some blues again,I’d like to hear more.

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Re: Americans! what have you learned about the UK?

Postby Zong » 27 Jul 2012, 19:11

Qube wrote:The thing I can't get into with American football is the sheer stop-start nature of the game, things are only live for a few seconds at a time before it all has to stop again and you have to wait minutes for everyone to get ready again, only to have another few seconds of real-time action, I don't really understand how anyone can be bothered (I've tried...).


The whole thing is a bloody minded stubborn conspiracy against rest of the world football designed purely to annoy Europe and South America.
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Re: Americans! what have you learned about the UK?

Postby Quaco » 27 Jul 2012, 19:23

NFL is like a war maneuver where you've got the munitions guy, the electronics guy, the scout, the guy who does languages, and the brains of the operation. I think that must be the appeal of it, watching each guy do their thing so well. Not unlike a band, actually. Whereas it seems soccer/football is more of a swarm of equal guys (except for the goalie), all moving in and out, doing what they can.
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Re: Americans! what have you learned about the UK?

Postby Poppypoobah » 27 Jul 2012, 19:38

Diamond Dog wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:
Poppypoobah wrote:We see a complaint as something that we need to fix, not as a fun way to pass the time.


I think the Brits would be more into the Olympics if whining had been made a competitive sport with medals.

I thought the host country got to pick a trial competition?


Was Atlanta's "Traffic Congestion"?
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Re: Americans! what have you learned about the UK?

Postby Diamond Dog » 27 Jul 2012, 19:50

sloopjohnc wrote:I thought the host country got to pick a trial competition?


Diamond Dog wrote:Was Atlanta's "Traffic Congestion"?


Poppypoobah wrote:OOOO catty!


I believe they won many golds for THAT one!
In other words an extended look into *******’s head, and it seems to have some pretty good things in it (who among us is totally free of mental garbage?) It’s nice to see that he is confident enough so he can play some blues again,I’d like to hear more.

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Re: Americans! what have you learned about the UK?

Postby Qube » 27 Jul 2012, 20:10

Diamond Dog wrote:It's a maximum of 35 seconds from one play to the next. Have a look how long it takes to take a free kick on the edge of the box in football these days!


Clearly in some situations in football it takes a little while to get things going, but certainly not nearly on the same frequency. It's like watching football if the game was only played by free kicks on the edge of the box.

I get the war maneuver and the chess-like aspect of American football, I just find it hard to see the payoff between the time spent watching the game not being played, and when the ball is actually in play.

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Re: Americans! what have you learned about the UK?

Postby PENK » 27 Jul 2012, 20:19

Quaco wrote:Whereas it seems soccer/football is more of a swarm of equal guys (except for the goalie), all moving in and out, doing what they can.


Soccer/football can have some of the most rigid and disciplined tactical planning of any sport. You hear of some teams having a plan whereby each player knows exactly what he should be doing at any given second depending on where the ball is, where the other players are and what the match situation is.
Sometimes you'll get players like in the NFL, with one specific role: a player who's just good at capitalising on other players' good work, ie by receiving passes and scoring goals. Or in some cases, you'll have a guy who's just there to kick opposition players.
It can also allow its players total individual freedom and creativity. Players with the licence to roam the pitch and try whatever they think might be productive. The Dutch teams of the 1970s were famed for their "total football" which is perhaps what you describe, the whole team moving in and out and participating in every phase of play.
All part of its appeal. I don't know any sport that has the complexity, variety and depth of association football.
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Re: Americans! what have you learned about the UK?

Postby Diamond Dog » 27 Jul 2012, 20:56

penk wrote: I don't know any sport that has the complexity, variety and depth of association football.


The complexity of football is almost entirely played out on the pitch - trust me, the 'planning' footballers partake in for a whole season (tactically) is less than the average NFL QB has to learn for the first quarter (15 minutes) of his teams possession in the first warm up game. And I am seriously not exaggerating. In terms of complexity, American Football makes association football look like tiddlywinks.
In other words an extended look into *******’s head, and it seems to have some pretty good things in it (who among us is totally free of mental garbage?) It’s nice to see that he is confident enough so he can play some blues again,I’d like to hear more.

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Re: Americans! what have you learned about the UK?

Postby PENK » 27 Jul 2012, 21:04

Diamond Dog wrote:
penk wrote: I don't know any sport that has the complexity, variety and depth of association football.


The complexity of football is almost entirely played out on the pitch - trust me, the 'planning' footballers partake in for a whole season (tactically) is less than the average NFL QB has to learn for the first quarter (15 minutes) of his teams possession in the first warm up game. And I am seriously not exaggerating. In terms of complexity, American Football makes association football look like tiddlywinks.


Sorry Pete, but that's bullshit.

I'm not denying that there's a lot of planning in American Football or that it is very complex tactically, but association football is a long way from the write-down-the-numbers-in-a-2-3-5 tradition now. There is a ridiculous amount of analysis, strategy and tinkering involved. It is the manager and coaching staff who ordinarily do this, rather than the players - though there are exceptions - but the same is most probably true in the NFL: I don't believe NFL players are renowned for having any more brains than their Premiership counterparts.

Don't take my word for it, though. I suspect Jonathan Wilson knows a good deal more about the subject than either of us do.
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Re: Americans! what have you learned about the UK?

Postby Diamond Dog » 27 Jul 2012, 21:06

Ed - you ever seen an NFL Quarterback playbook? Honestly?
Have you any idea the amount of hours per week the players go over tape of the opposition. Every week, week in week out.

Sorry, but it's not 'bullshit'.

Tactically the NFL makes football look like a Janet & John book, trust me.
Last edited by Diamond Dog on 27 Jul 2012, 21:15, edited 1 time in total.
In other words an extended look into *******’s head, and it seems to have some pretty good things in it (who among us is totally free of mental garbage?) It’s nice to see that he is confident enough so he can play some blues again,I’d like to hear more.

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Re: Americans! what have you learned about the UK?

Postby PENK » 27 Jul 2012, 21:13

No - but have you ever read Alex Ferguson's notebook?

I don't know, maybe there is more detailed planning and strategy in American football, but my point was that as you say, what is "played out on the pitch" in association football are the most varied, complicated and unpredictable scenarios of any sport. The complex strategies of American football are limited by the fairly specific nature of its plays. That's not a criticism: one could say the same of cricket, for example, which I'd also argue has a huge tactical and strategic depth. I just think that nothing else can match the flow of association football, nothing else has so many on-field possibilities.
Copehead wrote:I have met Gruff Rhys - although he claimed he wasn't and that he couldn't speak Welsh, as I spoke to him in Welsh, but it was him lying bastard.

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Re: Americans! what have you learned about the UK?

Postby sneelock » 27 Jul 2012, 21:16

I've learned that Tony Blair is an especially repugnant fellow and that cookies should be called biscuits.
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Re: Americans! what have you learned about the UK?

Postby Diamond Dog » 27 Jul 2012, 21:19

penk wrote:No - but have you ever read Alex Ferguson's notebook?

I don't know, maybe there is more detailed planning and strategy in American football, but my point was that as you say, what is "played out on the pitch" in association football are the most varied, complicated and unpredictable scenarios of any sport. The complex strategies of American football are limited by the fairly specific nature of its plays. That's not a criticism: one could say the same of cricket, for example, which I'd also argue has a huge tactical and strategic depth. I just think that nothing else can match the flow of association football, nothing else has so many on-field possibilities.


I've read countless books on football - coaches books, tactics books etc. There is nothing in terms of planning and tactics in football that even begins to compare with American Football. Nothing. Not even remotely close.

That was the reason i said the complexity of football is out on the pitch. It was recognition that that is another way the games are different. I have no problems with that.

But you said "I don't know any sport that has the complexity, variety and depth of association football.". In terms of complexity, the NFL demonstrably is.
Last edited by Diamond Dog on 27 Jul 2012, 23:21, edited 1 time in total.
In other words an extended look into *******’s head, and it seems to have some pretty good things in it (who among us is totally free of mental garbage?) It’s nice to see that he is confident enough so he can play some blues again,I’d like to hear more.

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Re: Americans! what have you learned about the UK?

Postby sloopjohnc » 27 Jul 2012, 22:36

Well. . . I think depending on your position in American football, some positions have to know more than others. Quarterback, a ton. And offensive to most defensive players, a ton more.

In hoops, the point guard pretty much has to know what every other player should be doing. Depending on an offensive set, you can have three starting points and three or four options per position. Usually, high school teams will run 4 or 5 different offensive sets, excluding plays for breaking presses, inbound plays, and different defenses you might have. If you're a guard, you really only have to know what a guard runs. If you're a guard and a forward, you have to know both positions' plays. The most popular offense lots of teams run these days is called The Flex, which requires you to know almost all the sets of the offense because it asks for lots of flexibility between players.

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Re: Americans! what have you learned about the UK?

Postby Copehead » 28 Jul 2012, 00:54

Diamond Dog wrote:
I'm not saying that NFL players are better than rugby players - I am saying an awful lot of British sports fans seriously under-estimate what being a NFL player entails.


Ending up a cripple generally

I played rugby seriously for 16 years and I have a few dodgy joints but nothing serious

If you played AF for 16 years chances are you'd be classed as disabled in most countries.

It is an amazing spectacle but a stupid sport given the protection they wear just makes their injuries worse

Rugby Union in the US relies on the fact that there is no real post school/college arena for people who don't make the highest grade - NFL, CFL, EFL ( if that even exists these days )

They train up tens of thousands of athletes at school level and then give them nowhere to go, Rugby should say thanks.
And if you tolerate this then your children will be next

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