Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
User avatar
The Write Profile
2017 BCB Cup Champ
Posts: 14693
Joined: 15 Sep 2003, 10:55
Location: Today, Tomorrow, Timaru
Contact:

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby The Write Profile » 10 Sep 2018, 03:28

Well I don't really have much to say about the All Blacks vs Argentina test match that I didn't already say about the All Blacks vs Wallabies matches. Except to say that Argentina was equal and even better than the ABs in some aspects- particularly their setpieces- but still managed to lose 46-24. The ABs are just playing at a speed that's utterly dumbfounding and seems totally counter-intuitive. I mean, the ABs conceded a whopping 18 turnovers and yet none of that seemed to matter. Hansen seems to be building a team that accelerates as the match goes on, rather than the expected opposite. I don't know how good this AB side is- they need to have a proper challenger to be really assured of greatness. It's not like the 1996-97 side, which was merely one great side facing very good Wallabies and Springboks sides week-in-week-out. It's not even like the 2015 side, which knew how to dominate in extreme pressure matches like the RWC final. I guess we won't know whether they're the real thing or just a mirage until the next RWC.
It's before my time but I've been told, he never came back from Karangahape Road.

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 24063
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 10 Sep 2018, 09:18

The Write Profile wrote:Well I don't really have much to say about the All Blacks vs Argentina test match that I didn't already say about the All Blacks vs Wallabies matches. Except to say that Argentina was equal and even better than the ABs in some aspects- particularly their setpieces- but still managed to lose 46-24. The ABs are just playing at a speed that's utterly dumbfounding and seems totally counter-intuitive. I mean, the ABs conceded a whopping 18 turnovers and yet none of that seemed to matter. Hansen seems to be building a team that accelerates as the match goes on, rather than the expected opposite. I don't know how good this AB side is- they need to have a proper challenger to be really assured of greatness. It's not like the 1996-97 side, which was merely one great side facing very good Wallabies and Springboks sides week-in-week-out. It's not even like the 2015 side, which knew how to dominate in extreme pressure matches like the RWC final. I guess we won't know whether they're the real thing or just a mirage until the next RWC.


It is the old: are they great or is everyone else shit - conundrum. Probably a bit of both but you get the feeling that only Ireland ( perhaps England o their day and got their shit together but all of a sudden they appear unsettled ) who can strangle teams to death or an end of tour Lions side could live with them at the moment.

There is the old Great sides need great teams to be measured against working against them and Barrett is both a strength and a weakness that can be exploited.

Their strengths are all round athleticism and great ball skills, a kille back 3 and an incredible ball playing ability in the 4-8 shirts combined with a real ruggedness.

Let's hope England regain a bit of that hard nosed ability which made them look like real challengers a year ago and Ireland stay focussed and injury free because that is where the challenge will come from by the look of it and even that is looking lacking at the moment.
And if you tolerate this then your children will be next

Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 24063
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 15 Sep 2018, 10:46

Well that put England's incredibly tight series against the Bokke into some context. South Africa are on the up.
New Zealand just tried to force everything and gifted SA tries, although the SA hustling was intense and unsettled NZ and made them flustered.
This New Zealand side, while capable of sublime brilliance, are also capable of massive brain farts in a way that earlier teams usually weren't. That is because they are playing a faster far more high risk game of rugby that sometimes comes unstuck, traditionally that has not fared well in RWCs and one wonders if they will start to tone it down a bit from the AIs or if this is how they think they can win the cup again.

Challengers are stepping up now - SA, Ireland, perhaps England have the capability too to make sure next year in Japan isn't a coronation but a fight.
And if you tolerate this then your children will be next

Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.

User avatar
never/ever
Posts: 22747
Joined: 27 Jun 2008, 14:21
Location: Journeying through a burning brain

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby never/ever » 15 Sep 2018, 10:54

The only thing I could think of was- why not kick a field goal?
The Blacks had the Boks on the ropes and threatened to trample them with one man in the bin. Couldn't believe that they'd try to force a try while last time they dropped the ball in a similar position.
Nevertheless- awesome bounce back from the Springboks. This season looks like its more open than ever.
Ever notice that anyone going slower than you is an idiot, but anyone going faster is a maniac?."

George Carlin

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 24063
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 15 Sep 2018, 21:29

Having watched that again it shows why Barrett B isn't going to end up on too many GOAT number 10 lists. He does the flash stuff sublimely, he even kicks from hand well but from the tee he is average and that costs you tight games and when it comes down to bottle he wasn't able or willing to take an "easy" drop goal at the end of that match for the win. Neither was anyone else but he was on pole position to demand the ball and pop it over.

Funny to see the AB fans online whinging about how they had all the stats in their favour but lost, that is usually the cry of the fan whose team have just been turned over by NZ despite having 60%+ possession :)

Brutal defence by SA at the end, a deserved win and you could see what it meant.
And if you tolerate this then your children will be next

Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.

User avatar
The Write Profile
2017 BCB Cup Champ
Posts: 14693
Joined: 15 Sep 2003, 10:55
Location: Today, Tomorrow, Timaru
Contact:

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby The Write Profile » 16 Sep 2018, 08:34

Copehead wrote:Having watched that again it shows why Barrett B isn't going to end up on too many GOAT number 10 lists. He does the flash stuff sublimely, he even kicks from hand well but from the tee he is average and that costs you tight games and when it comes down to bottle he wasn't able or willing to take an "easy" drop goal at the end of that match for the win. Neither was anyone else but he was on pole position to demand the ball and pop it over.

Funny to see the AB fans online whinging about how they had all the stats in their favour but lost, that is usually the cry of the fan whose team have just been turned over by NZ despite having 60%+ possession :)

Brutal defence by SA at the end, a deserved win and you could see what it meant.


There was something really astray with the ABs in the last few minutes, why they didn't have anyone set up for a dropgoal is beyond me, really. Indeed, they were really unstructured about the side last night- moments of brilliance (they did score six tries afterall) mixed with seriously boneheaded mistakes, and then there was Beauden Barret's place-kicking, which was diabolical.

I sometimes wonder about Keiran Read as captain, I don't think he has the authority of a McCaw as great a player as he is. Then again, there haven't been many matches where they've truly been tested and I probably shouldn't sniff at a captain with a 90 percent win record.

That said, South Africa were often superb, particularly on defence, they just kept rushing at the ABs until they couldn't rush anymore. But overall, that's been my favourite 80 minutes of rugby this year even as a crestfallen ABs supporter- it was a match played at pace and played pretty fairly too, there wasn't any time for cynicism it moved so fast.
It's before my time but I've been told, he never came back from Karangahape Road.

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 24063
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 16 Sep 2018, 09:07

The Write Profile wrote:
Copehead wrote:Having watched that again it shows why Barrett B isn't going to end up on too many GOAT number 10 lists. He does the flash stuff sublimely, he even kicks from hand well but from the tee he is average and that costs you tight games and when it comes down to bottle he wasn't able or willing to take an "easy" drop goal at the end of that match for the win. Neither was anyone else but he was on pole position to demand the ball and pop it over.

Funny to see the AB fans online whinging about how they had all the stats in their favour but lost, that is usually the cry of the fan whose team have just been turned over by NZ despite having 60%+ possession :)

Brutal defence by SA at the end, a deserved win and you could see what it meant.


There was something really astray with the ABs in the last few minutes, why they didn't have anyone set up for a dropgoal is beyond me, really. Indeed, they were really unstructured about the side last night- moments of brilliance (they did score six tries afterall) mixed with seriously boneheaded mistakes, and then there was Beauden Barret's place-kicking, which was diabolical.

I sometimes wonder about Keiran Read as captain, I don't think he has the authority of a McCaw as great a player as he is. Then again, there haven't been many matches where they've truly been tested and I probably shouldn't sniff at a captain with a 90 percent win record.

That said, South Africa were often superb, particularly on defence, they just kept rushing at the ABs until they couldn't rush anymore. But overall, that's been my favourite 80 minutes of rugby this year even as a crestfallen ABs supporter- it was a match played at pace and played pretty fairly too, there wasn't any time for cynicism it moved so fast.


I'd agree with that a superb match, the fitness levels were immense the skill levels high and SA actually went toe to toe with NZ and beat them at their own game only going into a defensive shell in the last 5-10 mins when under immense pressure.

Rassie Erasmus has got a way he wants them to play and it is coming together, they will be a formidable mixture of brute strength and fantastic back play.

As to the ABs, plan A works 90% of the time so plan B doesn't get a run out. The same thing happened in 2007 when they had no idea how to come from behind at the end under immense mental pressure, but they learnt that skill and became so good at it that NZ nicking a win at the end of a close match became a sort of cliche.

Now is the time for Barret to be trying these things when it isn't hugely important, he is secure in his position and they only question mark about him, other than kicking from the tee, is lack of confidence or bottle to make a big on pitch call like that. But Will Greenwood said they had over 70 rucks in front of the posts, anyone had time to make that decision probably including Hansen via a medic or something. Utterly baffling, I doubt it will happen again.
And if you tolerate this then your children will be next

Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.

User avatar
The Red Heifer
Fucking Crackers
Posts: 14785
Joined: 31 Aug 2003, 01:28
Location: South Penriff
Contact:

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby The Red Heifer » 16 Sep 2018, 12:40

The All Blacks should start McKenzie at 15 and make him kicker IMO.
Wadesmith wrote:Why is it that when there's a 'What do you think of this?' post, it's always absolute cobblers?

User avatar
Nikki Gradual
nasty, brutish and short
Posts: 20751
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:59
Location: Marineville

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Nikki Gradual » 16 Sep 2018, 15:04

I cannot believe no one was in the drop goal channel during the final plays.
It was the most un-All Black thing I have ever seen.
"He's thrown a kettle over a pub; what have you done?"

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 24063
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 16 Sep 2018, 15:25

Nikki Gradual wrote:I cannot believe no one was in the drop goal channel during the final plays.
It was the most un-All Black thing I have ever seen.


A couple of times people drifted into the slot early on but drifted away again as they kept pounding cretinously through the forwards in a way that would have people laughing at England. :)

They will learn, after all Carter did after something similar happening in the 2007 RWC SF/QF ( can't remember which it was ) and this wasn't a final of anything.
And if you tolerate this then your children will be next

Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.