Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
Arthur Crud

Postby Arthur Crud » 04 Sep 2003, 23:39

Bucolic old Sir Henry wrote:
Arthur Crud wrote:And sorry BOSH - I just can't accept all these "if" arguments. If Spencer had done this, if Mitchell had done that. That is living in a dream world - Christ "if" Webb Ellis had never picked up the ball we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. If's have no bearing on reality.


I take your point, Arturo, but "ifs" are at the heart of any sporting discussion. Players get judged by their performances, and Spencer's kicking in that game was poor. It hasn't been exactly ultra-reliable since, either. "If" his kicking was as good as Mehrtens or Blair's, we wouldn't be having this discussion...

Pip pip!


Yeah I know......I've been listening to too much radio sport. Honestly some people on there use the "if" clause to describe a totally different game and then get all upset because reality didn't equal their view of the world. Why should it?

It is after all a game of chance, the roll of the ball, the bounce of the ball - who was it who once said "Rugby is a game played by men with odd shaped balls"

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Postby Nikki Gradual » 04 Sep 2003, 23:55

copehead wrote: The way I see it the quarter finals will be
England vs France and NZ vs Australia.


I would hope that would be the semi-finals

copehead wrote:
England France is looking too close to call. If England thump the French spares at the weekend I will edge towards England


Remember, the French "spares" are this weekend (for which I am delighted to have a ticket - whoopee!) are a lot less "spare" than England's last weekend, more than half the team that played then not even being in the world cup squad of 30.


Personally I am delighted that England has lost that bloody winning streak going into the world cup and I think they are too. It would be an absolute millstone.
In my heart of hearts, I still cannot envision England winning the world cup though they do have their best chance ever. I am just used to their underachievement and all the knock-out stage games (hoping we get that far) are just too close to call. Anyone who saw France pull out the finest performance I have ever seen from them to completely outplay a confident, full-strength and on-form England at Parc de France the other year will know they can never be discounted.
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Postby Todd » 05 Sep 2003, 03:01

Arthur Crud wrote:
It is after all a game of chance, the roll of the ball, the bounce of the ball - who was it who once said "Rugby is a game played by men with odd shaped balls"


Murray Mexted probably.

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Postby Magilla » 05 Sep 2003, 11:30

kiwi_todd wrote:
Arthur Crud wrote:
It is after all a game of chance, the roll of the ball, the bounce of the ball - who was it who once said "Rugby is a game played by men with odd shaped balls"


Murray Mexted probably.


Murray Mexted, for those outside of NZ, is a former All Black no.8, who was a great player in his '70s-early '80s heyday.
However ,these days he's employed by Sky as a rugby commentator and prone to all manner of verbal bollocks, to wit:

"I've been pumping Martin Leslie all season" :shock: :oops: and

"Andrew Merhtens has just came inside Mark Meyerhofler" :shock: :oops:

and he wonders why, despite having been married to a former Miss Universe, there's rumours about his sexuality... :shock:
"U2 routinely spent a year in the studio...I have a theory: if you put four monkeys in the studio for a year with Lanois and Eno and Lillywhite, they would make a pretty good record, too."

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Postby Magilla » 05 Sep 2003, 11:47

...and now for something completely serious.

The Springboks - I don't think they stand a shit show of making the semis, let alone even winning the Cup.
Yes, they'll be bold and tough and competitive, but they're lacking in skill, flair and depth. There's a few good players like Krige, Van der Weistheizen (the halfback, however his name is spelt), but very few of them are genuine threats against quality sides.

Also, the disunity within their squad is almost palpable. Over the past week, story after story has emerged of friction between the white and black players.
Some of the white players have refused to train, or even room with black players, etc.
Krige was on TV here tonight claiming it was only "a misunderstanding" but they guy can't lie to save himself; his body-language gave it away: he couldn't look directly at the camera, he looked very ill at ease, etc.
They asked Bobo the black winger about it and he gave some euphimism allong the lines of "I've always faced prejudice and this is no different" - in other words "the white guys are pricks, but in the interests of maintaining the illusion of team unity, I won't tell the truth".

Him, Sephake, etc, are between a rock and a hard place: they want to play for their country at the World Cup, but have to bear all sorts of bullshit as a consequence.
"U2 routinely spent a year in the studio...I have a theory: if you put four monkeys in the studio for a year with Lanois and Eno and Lillywhite, they would make a pretty good record, too."

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Postby bhoywonder » 05 Sep 2003, 14:05

Try as I might, and I don't really, but the England rugby team and its supporters (not all of them, obviously, but enough to make themselves heard over the crowd) have the single most arrogant stance of any set of supporters of any sport in the world. I find them incredibly offensive, they stand for everything I dislike about england and the english.

An example. Last night there was a trailer on ITV2 for the World Cup. It was all about how england havethe best chance they've ever had going into a WC of bringing the trophy home. Fine. They do. But the trailer ended with saying that this time england would bring back the trophy "that is rightfully ours". Now, perhaps someone could explain this to me, for as far as I can tell, England have no "right" to the trophy.

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Postby Nikki Gradual » 05 Sep 2003, 14:12

bhoywonder wrote:Try as I might, and I don't really, but the England rugby team and its supporters (not all of them, obviously, but enough to make themselves heard over the crowd) have the single most arrogant stance of any set of supporters of any sport in the world. I find them incredibly offensive, they stand for everything I dislike about england and the english.


Possibly the most predictable and inane post of all time. The altitude in Bristol must have done to your head west country boy.
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Postby bhoywonder » 05 Sep 2003, 14:24

Nikki Gradual wrote:
bhoywonder wrote:Try as I might, and I don't really, but the England rugby team and its supporters (not all of them, obviously, but enough to make themselves heard over the crowd) have the single most arrogant stance of any set of supporters of any sport in the world. I find them incredibly offensive, they stand for everything I dislike about england and the english.


Possibly the most predictable and inane post of all time. The altitude in Bristol must have done to your head west country boy.


In what way?

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Postby Earthling » 05 Sep 2003, 14:36

Las Pumas will be there in the semis. They have to be.
You know how much the Costa Mendez in Buenos Aires?

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Postby Nikki Gradual » 05 Sep 2003, 14:42

bhoywonder wrote:
Nikki Gradual wrote:
bhoywonder wrote:Try as I might, and I don't really, but the England rugby team and its supporters (not all of them, obviously, but enough to make themselves heard over the crowd) have the single most arrogant stance of any set of supporters of any sport in the world. I find them incredibly offensive, they stand for everything I dislike about england and the english.


Possibly the most predictable and inane post of all time. The altitude in Bristol must have done to your head west country boy.


In what way?


Principally in its inanity and predictability.
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Postby bhoywonder » 05 Sep 2003, 14:58

Nikki Gradual wrote:
bhoywonder wrote:
Nikki Gradual wrote:
bhoywonder wrote:Try as I might, and I don't really, but the England rugby team and its supporters (not all of them, obviously, but enough to make themselves heard over the crowd) have the single most arrogant stance of any set of supporters of any sport in the world. I find them incredibly offensive, they stand for everything I dislike about england and the english.


Possibly the most predictable and inane post of all time. The altitude in Bristol must have done to your head west country boy.


In what way?


Principally in its inanity and predictability.


yawn. so in no real way then, you just got a little bored on a friday afternoon and figured that spiking me would provide some respite.

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Postby Earthling » 05 Sep 2003, 15:00

Nikki Gradual wrote:
bhoywonder wrote:
Nikki Gradual wrote:
bhoywonder wrote:Try as I might, and I don't really, but the England rugby team and its supporters (not all of them, obviously, but enough to make themselves heard over the crowd) have the single most arrogant stance of any set of supporters of any sport in the world. I find them incredibly offensive, they stand for everything I dislike about england and the english.


Possibly the most predictable and inane post of all time. The altitude in Bristol must have done to your head west country boy.


In what way?


Principally in its inanity and predictability.


Yes I saw the replay. There were Cornish pasties being hurled onto the field every time France got a penalty

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Postby Nikki Gradual » 05 Sep 2003, 21:00

bhoywonder wrote:
Nikki Gradual wrote:
bhoywonder wrote:
Nikki Gradual wrote:
bhoywonder wrote:Try as I might, and I don't really, but the England rugby team and its supporters (not all of them, obviously, but enough to make themselves heard over the crowd) have the single most arrogant stance of any set of supporters of any sport in the world. I find them incredibly offensive, they stand for everything I dislike about england and the english.


Possibly the most predictable and inane post of all time. The altitude in Bristol must have done to your head west country boy.


In what way?


Principally in its inanity and predictability.


yawn. so in no real way then, you just got a little bored on a friday afternoon and figured that spiking me would provide some respite.


Oh in a very real way. I just don't want to lend any more substance to such a moronic post as yours by justifying my view on what you wrote and thereby broadening an argument based on juvenile and irrational hatred.
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Postby Copehead » 06 Sep 2003, 01:16

I agree with Magilla, there is the makings of a decent side there and their U19s won their world cup so the players are still coming through, but the disunity inthat camp is palpable.
This story is Geo Cronje wouldn't share with Davids as he was black, insiders said it was because they were both up fpr the last lock position and there was some ill feeling between them. Old Geo is a big bearded Boer conservative but apparently has roomed with black and coloured players before, so it was all a bit of a mystery and they both got shit canned. But there is possibly more to it than that as they are now holding an enquiry. Whatever it is bad news for the Bok, I doubt they will get past the QF stage.

Bhoy,
You have to diffeerentiate between the bollox you get on the telly, Stuart Barnes and Dewi Morris ( your Welsh for fuck's sake ) on Sky are particularly jingoistic and it looks like ITV will be going down that same sad route, and the run of the mill English rugby fan. Most England fans are students of the game, enjoy watching a good match and are fair minded, you get the odd prat but nowhere near the level you get with football. My fellow Welshmen are alot more one eyed as are Kiwis, or at least the ones round my way.
But the gold medal winners in rugby supporter arrogance are aussies, They have a shit pack and yet they still somehow expect to win, perhaps they will but I can't see it.

I just think " arrogant " is a label that attaches it self to the game in England, the players seem to pargons of open minded virtue when they are interviewed.

But at least it adds spice to the whole event I suppose
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Postby Nikki Gradual » 06 Sep 2003, 01:31

copehead wrote:
I just think " arrogant " is a label that attaches it self to the game in England, the players seem to pargons of open minded virtue when they are interviewed.


Very very true. Funny thing is it's called patriotism in the rest of the British isles, but if England dare show it it's arrogance.
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Postby Copehead » 06 Sep 2003, 02:00

Having said that I still hope Wales beat them in the QF , if they get that far. Wales get that far that is.

Unlikly I know, but once the new regional teams have bedded down the game in wales can only get better

*sings*


Things , can only get better.
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Postby Copehead » 06 Sep 2003, 03:54

Having said that there is no sight more loathsome than the braying, red faced, arrogant, english, public schoolboy in full honk at twickers.

Unless it is the sight of a frothing, bilious, envious, nationalistic, chippy scot/welshman/okker/jarpie/kiwi having a go at those arrogant englishmen.

Not just rugby, but life would be better with out these sorts of pond life.
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Postby Magilla » 06 Sep 2003, 06:47

copehead wrote:Most England fans are students of the game, enjoy watching a good match and are fair minded, you get the odd prat but nowhere near the level you get with football.
My fellow Welshmen are a lot more one eyed as are Kiwis, or at least the ones round my way.
But the gold medal winners in rugby supporter arrogance are aussies, They have a shit pack and yet they still somehow expect to win, perhaps they will but I can't see it.


First up, yes, us NZers are appallingly one-eyed, but this is a weakness I am prepared to admit.

I think the problem with some of the more "English public school-boy types" and their arrogance, etc, is one of class.
Here in NZ, rugby is played through-out each the social and economic divisions, yet in Britain, it's, as far as I can figure, played and ran by upper-middle and upper class people (correct me if I'm wrong). Thus ,there is that image attached to the game.

We don't have the class system here (at least nowhere near as overt or entrenched) so I'm not able to comment on it with any knowledge.
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Postby Copehead » 06 Sep 2003, 09:03

I think in parts of the England Rugby Union is a working class game, the south west, the Midlands, and in other parts it is a lot more middle class, the north, the SE. I used to play in a pretty little georgian market town in the home counties but our club chairman was a builder and a right old bruiser. When I first moved there i went along to Bedford rugby club and that was very public school and I didn't like it at all, but Ampthill ( where I pitched up ) was a right old mixture and always had been, I loved it and still go there on a saturday when i can even if it is only the 3rds or 4ths playing.

No one hates public schools boys more than me, and I think they are to blame for the arrogant tag. But looking at the England rugby team today it is alot more like the country as whole than it was in the 70s and 80s.

Funnily enough it has always been a middle class game in Scotland, and a working class ( or classless ) one in Wales.

Anyway in anyone in world rugby has a right to be one eyed in is the Kiwis they have always been at or about the top of the tree, no other country has managed that, unless you believe that the boks are still a cracking team these days, because lets face it Australia were a bit of a joke until the 70s.
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Postby bhoywonder » 06 Sep 2003, 10:48

copehead wrote:Bhoy,
You have to diffeerentiate between the bollox you get on the telly, Stuart Barnes and Dewi Morris ( your Welsh for fuck's sake ) on Sky are particularly jingoistic and it looks like ITV will be going down that same sad route, and the run of the mill English rugby fan.


Of course, and that's why, in my original post, I made that distinction. Perhaps not clearly enough. But then, I think Nikki made his mind up what my post said before he even read it. I stand by it, having been to England games with Wales and with Scotland, it's just downright unpleasant. In much the same way as with the England football fans, where a few idiots ruin it for everyone else, the minority of arrogant public school wankers stand out from the crowd.

The arrogance vs patriotism is completely different. Being patriotic and supporting your team is great, but I don't think you'll find another set of supporters, or, more often, media, who are so "patriotic" as to openly declare they have a god-given right to win a trophy. That's all I'm saying, not that every England rugby fan is a wanker.

And to completely dismiss my opinion as inane, without even taking the time to consider what I'm talking about, is extremely arrogant and patronising too. As with going to watch rugby matches involving England, I wish I hadn't come here, and I don't feel welcome.