Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 20 Nov 2016, 07:59

The Write Profile wrote:I can't disagree with your summary - it was an ugly game enlivened by some occasional brilliance by Beauden Barrett- and the All Blacks seemed determined to grind the match out. Ireland were up to the challenge but could have been more enterprising, especially when you consider that the All Blacks were playing with only 14 men for 20 minutes.


They really should be able to win games with those sort of odds, but with Sexton ( hammy ) and 2-3 others off the field with injuries their much vaunted bench couldn't deliver, and whilst they aren't moaning about the AB's rough house tactics they are moaning about the BB try which they claim was in touch.

Not that it makes much difference to the final result, they couldn't put together moves like they did last week because they couldn't get sustained front foot ball because New Zealand did to them what they did to New Zealand last week, knocked them out of their stride and backwards.

We'll see how they bounce back against the Wallabies now because what was looking like a possible routing has suddenly got more interesting with their injuries.

Their front row will be liking their lips at the Wallabies reversion to collapsing type in France though, they lost every single scrum in the match apparently, including 3 against the head.

Cheika is moaning about the French boring in but if you can't sort something like that out when the ref isn't seeing a problem you really shouldn't be playing international rugby and it isn't as if this isn't a long term Wallaby malaise where they are usually the ones pulling every trick in the book not to scrummage straight.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby The Red Heifer » 20 Nov 2016, 09:06

Cheika moans about everything, he's an infuriating individual who needs a kick to the face.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby andymacandy » 20 Nov 2016, 10:34

Decent sclaffed win against Argentina makes up a bit for the last minute loss to the Aussies last week. We are definitely improving under Cotter, and I hope that continues under Toonie. We are so reliant on Laidlaw though.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 20 Nov 2016, 20:32

andymacandy wrote:Decent sclaffed win against Argentina makes up a bit for the last minute loss to the Aussies last week. We are definitely improving under Cotter, and I hope that continues under Toonie. We are so reliant on Laidlaw though.


He is a great captain and player without being a great scrum half.

His passing can be a bit laboured
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 20 Nov 2016, 22:23

Cane and Fekitoa both cited for dangerous tackles.

Also Launchbury for kicking someone in the head.

We will see how these go, rugby is getting very twitchy about people targeting an opponent's head, anyone who does that without a decent mitigation is going to get a lengthy ban - pour encourager les autres.

It will be interesting to see whether they think the All Blacks behaviour was premeditated or a serious of unrelated bad tackles that left 20% of the Irish team in hospital within 20 minutes. Either is distinctly plausible, it is a contact sport.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby The Write Profile » 21 Nov 2016, 03:13

Copehead wrote:Cane and Fekitoa both cited for dangerous tackles.

Also Launchbury for kicking someone in the head.

We will see how these go, rugby is getting very twitchy about people targeting an opponent's head, anyone who does that without a decent mitigation is going to get a lengthy ban - pour encourager les autres.

It will be interesting to see whether they think the All Blacks behaviour was premeditated or a serious of unrelated bad tackles that left 20% of the Irish team in hospital within 20 minutes. Either is distinctly plausible, it is a contact sport.


The coverage of the match here suggested that the tactics were premeditated, there were far too many of them for it to be an aberration. As an All Blacks supportor I am disappointed that they would be so cynical, regardless of the result.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 21 Nov 2016, 05:16

The Write Profile wrote:
Copehead wrote:Cane and Fekitoa both cited for dangerous tackles.

Also Launchbury for kicking someone in the head.

We will see how these go, rugby is getting very twitchy about people targeting an opponent's head, anyone who does that without a decent mitigation is going to get a lengthy ban - pour encourager les autres.

It will be interesting to see whether they think the All Blacks behaviour was premeditated or a serious of unrelated bad tackles that left 20% of the Irish team in hospital within 20 minutes. Either is distinctly plausible, it is a contact sport.


The coverage of the match here suggested that the tactics were premeditated, there were far too many of them for it to be an aberration. As an All Blacks supportor I am disappointed that they would be so cynical, regardless of the result.


It is sad, but not much different to what the Boks have done over the years, it was reversion to an older school of rugby, of roughing up the oppo and and grinding out a victory, that this team were supposed to be above. Plus one can imagine the outcry if a Springbok took out Barrett with a head shot.

But with the focus now on protecting the head I think we can expect some lengthy bans in the next few months.

These days being careless or making a mistake is no mitigation, that just reduces the ban because you have a duty of care to the opposition.

So Launchbury will probably get a short ban ( 4 weeks is being mooted ) because he swung a boot in a ruck to kick the ball and kicked a player in the head. it wasn't an attempt to kick someone in the head but that is just a mitigation not a defense.

Cole is probably going to get a short ban because the tackle was reckless rather than malicious, but if you hit someone chest high and slip up onto their neck and head that is your fault and you will probably get anything from a penalty to a red card and a ban depending on how serious it is and that is often dependent on what happened to the the opponent - this one went to hospital on a stretcher in a neck brace.

Fekitoa could be in serious trouble though because that was more than clumsy or reckless it was clothes lining a player who had got past him. that could be a long ban, he may get lucky because he didn't do too much damage to Zebo and it was dealt with on the field, but you never know these days. He may be up for two things seeing as he took Kearney out of the game as well.

It depends whether the authorities have had enough and what to create a few examples or they would rather sweep it under the carpet and move on.

They have managed to almost completely remove gouging, biting and punching from the game by handing out Draconian bans and I think this is where their attention is focused now.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Nikki Gradual » 21 Nov 2016, 07:21

Rewritten this for you...

Copehead wrote:England have managed to almost completely remove gouging, biting and punching from the game by giving the man behind 99.9% of the incidents the responsibility of being Captain.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Nikki Gradual » 21 Nov 2016, 07:24

The Write Profile wrote:As an All Blacks supportor I am disappointed that they would be so cynical, regardless of the result.


Yet being prepared to resort to those tactics, to stoop to whatever level is necessary, is also part of the reason why the ABs are so indomitable.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby The Write Profile » 21 Nov 2016, 08:33

Nikki Gradual wrote:
The Write Profile wrote:As an All Blacks supportor I am disappointed that they would be so cynical, regardless of the result.


Yet being prepared to resort to those tactics, to stoop to whatever level is necessary, is also part of the reason why the ABs are so indomitable.

True, but during last year's world cup they showed they could win with beautiful, free flowing and fair rugby played at lightning speed. They seemed genuinely shaken by the Ireland defeat and I hope this match was an aberration and they will revert to the type of rugby that made me so proud to support them over the last two years.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby The Great Defector » 22 Nov 2016, 12:28

All blacks getting a bad touch in Irish sports media, not that they'd care I'd imagine. Apparently we're "not sore losers", the ref is known to be shite, and the all blacks played dirty rugby that was of the "dark old days".
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 22 Nov 2016, 20:59

As predicted Fekitoa got a short ban suggesting it should have been red on the field of play.

I Think he got lucky there.

The Coles defense seems to have been accepted that the player was spun out of a tackle towards him when he was already committed; but the IRU are sending out mixed messages saying that high tackles need to be cracked down on by refs urgently and then giving someone who clothes lined an opponent half the ban of someone whose shin clipped someone on the floor when he was trying to kick the ball.

I think the All Blacks dodged a bullet there but I doubt the whole process was anything less than scrupulously fair and to the letter of the law.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 22 Nov 2016, 21:03

The Great DeFector wrote:All blacks getting a bad touch in Irish sports media, not that they'd care I'd imagine. Apparently we're "not sore losers", the ref is known to be shite, and the all blacks played dirty rugby that was of the "dark old days".


I think it was the shock more than anything else, like catching your granny calling someone a wog.
We expect this sort of brutal behaviour from the Sprinboks but not from the All Blacks.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 23 Nov 2016, 02:01

Two good ideas being put forward after Coles was not banned for taking Henshaws head off because he wasn't expecting to tackle him at that moment:

1) Put the duty of care on the tackler as it is when there is a man in the air, then it doesn't matter if you didn't mean to touch him you did and that is the end of it. So it doesn't matter that Coles wasn't expecting to tackle Henshaw when he did, he was lining up a borderline high shot going in to a dangerous area and showed a lack of care to his opponent.
This also applies to a man on the floor in a ruck, Launchbury got 2 weeks for a "kick" that the Fijian apparently didn't even notice, tough blokes.

2) Lower the high tackle line to the nipples and put a line on jerseys to help refs.

It is only about 6" lower but it will make it that much harder for players to say they tackled fairly but then "slipped" up and hit a man in the head.

Like it or nor, and anyone who is an ex-player or has any respect for current players must like it, protecting the head is now the most important issue in rugby and last Saturday's game shows there is still much further to go in making tackling safer.

In the last couple of years tackling more upright to stop balls being passed out of the tackle and to create more mauls where you get a turn over has been coached into the game, and now it needs to be coached, or penalised, out of it because it is too dangerous as head injuries to 3 Irishmen inside 24 minutes on Saturday showed.

That is simply no longer acceptable or "part of the game", we do not want to wait for a tragedy to do something about this.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby The Great Defector » 10 Jan 2017, 18:30

Former Welsh Winger Shane Williams arrives in Donegal to play for Glenswilly


http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=264799

Good luck, and I'm not necessarily on about him playing GAA.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 22 Jan 2017, 01:50

Quarter finalists of European Cup nearly done now

Munster - still running on Foley aftermath were terrible early season, good pack, fantastic backrow, iffy backs will probably go out to first on song team they meet from this list even at Thomond Park, passion will only get you so far these days.

Glasgow - squeaked in but great to see them there, they are practically Scotland playing club rugby so they should be challenging all the way to the final but can still be flaky as home loss to Munster showed.

Sarries - second favourites, down 7 internationals at the moment and still had a enough to grind out a win against Toulon. Stars will be back by next round should motor to the final.

Toulon - Had enough to get the point that gave them a runners up spot, perhaps should have won the game fluffing chances including one where the winger kicked the ball out of his own hand whilst going to an unopposed one handed touch down, wtf? No pay for him this week.

Leinster - looking good, not massively tested yet and a young exciting side, will probably fold against one of the big guns when put under pressure.

Clermont - perennial favourites always seem to have crisis in the final, this should be their year, only Sarries should trouble them, but could lose to anyone here if crisis captures them as it has in the past.

Then probably Wasps and one of Connacht and Toulouse, Wasps will get a bonus point at Zebre so Connacht need to get a bonus point at Toulouse to top the group but as no home draw is going to come from this group it is all about who you play. Toulouse should beat Connact at home so:


Clermont Toulon

Can only see Clermont progressing unless serious blow on day

Munster Glasgow

May happen looking at where the teams came. Munster won both pool games I think, but easy to see Glasgow hitting top form and beating them. But Munster should march on through this one.

Saracens Toulouse

Sarries in all probability with a full squad, but a tough draw. They are all tough draws now.


Leinster Wasps

Match of the round I'd go for the extra nouse of Wasps if both sides at full strength. Both flair sides but Wasps have more age and experience which matters at the sharp end of teh season. But Leinster have Lancaster and Farrell as coaches now, and they have been instrumental in bringing through youth ( which Lancaster is excellent at ) and tightening up the defense after a dismal season last year.

Still very reliant on Sexton, they went backwards to hang on for a draw against Castre when he went off the other night.

that would leave

Clermont, Sarries, Wasps and Munster
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby andymacandy » 22 Jan 2017, 09:40

Copehead wrote:
Glasgow - squeaked in but great to see them there, they are practically Scotland playing club rugby so they should be challenging all the way to the final but can still be flaky as home loss to Munster showed.


I think yesterdays result at Leicester is the most astonishing that I can remember from a Scottish side in my lifetime. Yes, Leicester are in trouble, but this was a thrashing.
They were a bit unlucky to lose to Munster-Russells decision making still needs to mature, but on other days he has been a genuine Lions contender.
I am hugely encouraged to see that Toonie's coaching has taken them this far, and that the players have been able to achieve the aims he has set.
With Edinburgh prospering in the Challenge Cup with a similarly Scots line up, there are a lot of things to be optomistic about.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 22 Jan 2017, 23:40

andymacandy wrote:
Copehead wrote:
Glasgow - squeaked in but great to see them there, they are practically Scotland playing club rugby so they should be challenging all the way to the final but can still be flaky as home loss to Munster showed.


I think yesterdays result at Leicester is the most astonishing that I can remember from a Scottish side in my lifetime. Yes, Leicester are in trouble, but this was a thrashing.
They were a bit unlucky to lose to Munster-Russells decision making still needs to mature, but on other days he has been a genuine Lions contender.
I am hugely encouraged to see that Toonie's coaching has taken them this far, and that the players have been able to achieve the aims he has set.
With Edinburgh prospering in the Challenge Cup with a similarly Scots line up, there are a lot of things to be optomistic about.


Leicester are more than in trouble they are in complete meltdown and it looks like the players had more faith in Cockerill than Mauger judging by their complete collapse since he left.

Glasgow lost to Munster because Munster were better are making the right decision at the right time even though they have a shit FH, I suppose Connor Murray is their Brain and he is a far bigger Brain than Finn Russel.

But Glasgow are still improving, they will learn to get the steel that Munster have with greater experience at this level.

They are on the up and I don't see the change in coach altering that as the replacement is top quality and he wouldn't be coming if he wasn't impressed as he is someone with his eyes on the ABs in a few years time.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby The Great Defector » 25 Jan 2017, 12:25

Why are International coaches so against picking players that aren't playing their own country or a country close to them? The Irish coach apparently hasn't picked a player because he's playing in France, I think.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 25 Jan 2017, 23:27

The Great Defector wrote:Why are International coaches so against picking players that aren't playing their own country or a country close to them? The Irish coach apparently hasn't picked a player because he's playing in France, I think.


Because they have less control over when they can play international matches and when they can attend training camps and no control on whether the players are rested for certain games or not.

Both things they have a lot of control of if the players is playing in the home league which will have an agreement over these things with the national team.

In Ireland Schmit has almost total control over the players at Leinster and Munster etc because the provinces are owned by the IRU so he can prioritise their playing for the national team, the will not happen with a player in France.

So by not picking the player in France he discourages others from going there and keeps his best players under his control.

Exceptions are made, when Sexton went to France to earn a big pay day no one suggested he shouldn't play for Ireland as he is too important.
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