Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
User avatar
The Great Defector
Posts: 14284
Joined: 07 Jan 2012, 18:16

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby The Great Defector » 26 Jan 2017, 12:26

So an international coach can dictate to club coaches when to play and not to play players? The club coach has no say in the matter?
fueryIre wrote:Deluded by the belief that what is said on chat boards reflects reality or carries any kind of weight in the day-to-day world

User avatar
Nikki Gradual
nasty, brutish and short
Posts: 20374
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:59
Location: Marineville

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Nikki Gradual » 26 Jan 2017, 13:03

Copehead wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:Why are International coaches so against picking players that aren't playing their own country or a country close to them? The Irish coach apparently hasn't picked a player because he's playing in France, I think.


Because they have less control over when they can play international matches and when they can attend training camps and no control on whether the players are rested for certain games or not.

Both things they have a lot of control of if the players is playing in the home league which will have an agreement over these things with the national team.

In Ireland Schmit has almost total control over the players at Leinster and Munster etc because the provinces are owned by the IRU so he can prioritise their playing for the national team, the will not happen with a player in France.

So by not picking the player in France he discourages others from going there and keeps his best players under his control.

Exceptions are made, when Sexton went to France to earn a big pay day no one suggested he shouldn't play for Ireland as he is too important.


I still think it is a daft policy. I can understand if someone is playing in a different hemisphere, but not when they are in France. England has missed out on selecting two of the last three European rugby players of the year (Nick Abendanon and Steffon Armitage) because of this policy as well as countless others. Time was when out of form (or favour) players went to France to recoup or rebuild (notably Dan Luger, even Fatty Goode latterly), but now it is the strongest club league in the northern hemisphere and that can only improve players. Yes, I get the counter-argument that if these players have consciously sacrificed an international career for a firstful of Euros then do we really want their sort to wear an England shirt, but that is just West Car Park, game pie and Merlot talk that doesn't cut it in the real world.
"There's nothing more boring than a room full of dopeheads" - Valerie 'Coan' Bingleton

User avatar
Geezee
Posts: 11578
Joined: 24 Jul 2003, 10:14
Location: Where joy divides into vision

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Geezee » 26 Jan 2017, 17:05

Nikki Gradual wrote:
Copehead wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:Why are International coaches so against picking players that aren't playing their own country or a country close to them? The Irish coach apparently hasn't picked a player because he's playing in France, I think.


Because they have less control over when they can play international matches and when they can attend training camps and no control on whether the players are rested for certain games or not.

Both things they have a lot of control of if the players is playing in the home league which will have an agreement over these things with the national team.

In Ireland Schmit has almost total control over the players at Leinster and Munster etc because the provinces are owned by the IRU so he can prioritise their playing for the national team, the will not happen with a player in France.

So by not picking the player in France he discourages others from going there and keeps his best players under his control.

Exceptions are made, when Sexton went to France to earn a big pay day no one suggested he shouldn't play for Ireland as he is too important.


I still think it is a daft policy. I can understand if someone is playing in a different hemisphere, but not when they are in France. England has missed out on selecting two of the last three European rugby players of the year (Nick Abendanon and Steffon Armitage) because of this policy as well as countless others. Time was when out of form (or favour) players went to France to recoup or rebuild (notably Dan Luger, even Fatty Goode latterly), but now it is the strongest club league in the northern hemisphere and that can only improve players. Yes, I get the counter-argument that if these players have consciously sacrificed an international career for a firstful of Euros then do we really want their sort to wear an England shirt, but that is just West Car Park, game pie and Merlot talk that doesn't cut it in the real world.


And it's pathetic when they make exceptions for certain players. Either have the rule and abide by it or get rid of it. Get rid of it in my opinion. The fact that certain national coaches have such a strong grip of their national leagues is also a bad thing in my opinion.
Smilies are ON
Flash is OFF
Url is ON

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 22186
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 26 Jan 2017, 21:48

The Great Defector wrote:So an international coach can dictate to club coaches when to play and not to play players? The club coach has no say in the matter?


Pretty much in Ireland and Scotland although they are obviously sensible about it and do it for the players' welfare more than anything else. But the national set up own the provinces/clubs.

But not a chance in France

England have a very good working relationship between club and country now so top players only play so many games and the salary cap was widened to allow bigger squads.

Wales have a mess. As usual.
Heard a voice shoutng "Don't jump! Please for God's sake let me move my car"


Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 22186
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 26 Jan 2017, 21:57

Nikki Gradual wrote:
Copehead wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:Why are International coaches so against picking players that aren't playing their own country or a country close to them? The Irish coach apparently hasn't picked a player because he's playing in France, I think.


Because they have less control over when they can play international matches and when they can attend training camps and no control on whether the players are rested for certain games or not.

Both things they have a lot of control of if the players is playing in the home league which will have an agreement over these things with the national team.

In Ireland Schmit has almost total control over the players at Leinster and Munster etc because the provinces are owned by the IRU so he can prioritise their playing for the national team, the will not happen with a player in France.

So by not picking the player in France he discourages others from going there and keeps his best players under his control.

Exceptions are made, when Sexton went to France to earn a big pay day no one suggested he shouldn't play for Ireland as he is too important.


I still think it is a daft policy. I can understand if someone is playing in a different hemisphere, but not when they are in France. England has missed out on selecting two of the last three European rugby players of the year (Nick Abendanon and Steffon Armitage) because of this policy as well as countless others. Time was when out of form (or favour) players went to France to recoup or rebuild (notably Dan Luger, even Fatty Goode latterly), but now it is the strongest club league in the northern hemisphere and that can only improve players. Yes, I get the counter-argument that if these players have consciously sacrificed an international career for a firstful of Euros then do we really want their sort to wear an England shirt, but that is just West Car Park, game pie and Merlot talk that doesn't cut it in the real world.


But that European Player of the year thing is gash, it was a promotional tool for the Heiniken Cup where hand picked judges were only allowed to pick from the knock out stages of the HEC, it had little basis in reality, hence the usual litany of English international failures plying their trade in France who won it.

Abendanon left because he wasn't the best 15 at bath let alone the best player in Europe.

It works in everyone's favour, even the players are protected from being flogged by French clubs.

For a vision of what will happen if you don't do it you need only look at the chaos in Wales.

France is an awful league, the players, anecdotely, come back unfit and watching French team after French team blow up at the end of Heiniken games you have to think it is true. Toulon are in decline, Toulouse aren't all that, only Clermont are a real threat to British clubs and they scarcely have a French man playing for them.

It has put their national team into a long steep decline to the point where they battle it out with Italy and Scotland at the bottom of the table.

If players wish to play for England they have to play in England, seems to be working there is not a single player excluded from the squad who would be in on merit now. And doing this hasn't harmed New Zealand either.
Heard a voice shoutng "Don't jump! Please for God's sake let me move my car"


Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.

User avatar
The Great Defector
Posts: 14284
Joined: 07 Jan 2012, 18:16

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby The Great Defector » 03 Feb 2017, 13:18

Have to say the adverts and marketing for the six nations seems to be getting lesser and lesser as the years go on. I only found out it's on yesterday.
fueryIre wrote:Deluded by the belief that what is said on chat boards reflects reality or carries any kind of weight in the day-to-day world

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 22186
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 04 Feb 2017, 21:31

If I was a Scots fan, and thank the Lord I'm not Sir, I would be most pleased with the last 20 minutes of that game.

They got ahead but the favourites had come back and had taken the lead and everyone had said they had the stronger bench; but that was the moment when Scotland reasserted themselves and pulled away.

Very good win against a very good, and confident Ireland.

England won.

It was enough, we need to see where France are in relationship to the rest before we really judge that, it may have been a good result against a resurgent side, they are certainly one of teh largest packs who can ever have played the game, all monsters.
Heard a voice shoutng "Don't jump! Please for God's sake let me move my car"


Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.

User avatar
Deebank
Resonator
Posts: 21969
Joined: 10 Oct 2003, 13:47
Location: In a beautiful place out in the country

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Deebank » 05 Feb 2017, 10:27

England were fucking lucky.
They do the minimum to squeak through and then act like big heroes... Tossers.

;)
Paid anghofio fod dy galon yn y chwyldro

User avatar
andymacandy
"Liberal Airhead"
Posts: 29823
Joined: 18 Jul 2003, 18:26
Location: MacAndys Farm

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby andymacandy » 05 Feb 2017, 19:31

Copehead wrote:If I was a Scots fan, and thank the Lord I'm not Sir, I would be most pleased with the last 20 minutes of that game.

They got ahead but the favourites had come back and had taken the lead and everyone had said they had the stronger bench; but that was the moment when Scotland reasserted themselves and pulled away.

Very good win against a very good, and confident Ireland.

Very pleased indeed, but the recent form of Glasgow, and the progress that Vern has brought suggested we would be better than expected. But to beat Ireland was a big step up. We have a fast dynamic game plan, and depth to sustain it. Barclay for Watson worked very well. Next week will show how far we have come, as I think France looked much better, and will be hurting.

Copehead wrote:England won.

It was enough, we need to see where France are in relationship to the rest before we really judge that, it may have been a good result against a resurgent side, they are certainly one of teh largest packs who can ever have played the game, all monsters.

Champions manage to win when things arent working brilliantly, and I doubt that Jones will not take them foreward again. Wales will need to be very good to hold them.
Bless the weather.......Image

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 22186
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 06 Feb 2017, 00:03

andymacandy wrote:
Copehead wrote:If I was a Scots fan, and thank the Lord I'm not Sir, I would be most pleased with the last 20 minutes of that game.

They got ahead but the favourites had come back and had taken the lead and everyone had said they had the stronger bench; but that was the moment when Scotland reasserted themselves and pulled away.

Very good win against a very good, and confident Ireland.

Very pleased indeed, but the recent form of Glasgow, and the progress that Vern has brought suggested we would be better than expected. But to beat Ireland was a big step up. We have a fast dynamic game plan, and depth to sustain it. Barclay for Watson worked very well. Next week will show how far we have come, as I think France looked much better, and will be hurting.

Copehead wrote:England won.

It was enough, we need to see where France are in relationship to the rest before we really judge that, it may have been a good result against a resurgent side, they are certainly one of teh largest packs who can ever have played the game, all monsters.

Champions manage to win when things arent working brilliantly, and I doubt that Jones will not take them forward again. Wales will need to be very good to hold them.


I think Wales can match the England pack up front, especially with their injuries, but I fear we may fall between 2 stools with the backs, do we go with Biggar or Sam Davies, does Webb keep his place?

If there is confusion England may well beat us because one thing they aren't is confused about how they should be playing, they are incredibly focused on fulfilling Jones' plans for individual games and it works very well.

Massive change in personnel due to injuries at various points during the past year but the collective has remained strong and focused, very impressive stuff.

Scotland showed similar virtues of buying into their Coach's vision and sticking to it through thick and thin, as have Ireland, France may be going the same way with Noves.

Scotland are going to meet a monstrous pack next week and a back row the equal of Ireland's, they will need to do the same again and more and then hope to exploit the lack of fitness in the French in the last 20.

Wales sound like they had a decent win in the second half after wearing down the Italians, so people immediately call for the bench to start and forget about the work done by the starting 15 to get the bench in a position to prosper.

If we are united next week we may well prevail against England our enemy will be confusion over the way we play now, England will beat us if that is what we are feeling at the moment.
Heard a voice shoutng "Don't jump! Please for God's sake let me move my car"


Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.

User avatar
Deebank
Resonator
Posts: 21969
Joined: 10 Oct 2003, 13:47
Location: In a beautiful place out in the country

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Deebank » 06 Feb 2017, 09:08

Dan Biggar's cheeky little kicks might fox England - always a big gamble that style of play though.
Paid anghofio fod dy galon yn y chwyldro

User avatar
Nikki Gradual
nasty, brutish and short
Posts: 20374
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:59
Location: Marineville

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Nikki Gradual » 06 Feb 2017, 09:30

Copehead wrote:Wales sound like they had a decent win in the second half after wearing down the Italians, so people immediately call for the bench to start and forget about the work done by the starting 15 to get the bench in a position to prosper.


There are a lot of similarly idiotic halfwits saying the same about England, even some supposedly expert media commentators.
It's like they haven't watched the previous 14 games and realised that upping the pace at 60 minutes by bringing on fresher, quicker impact players (notably Care for Youngs) is Eddie's one big tactic. There has not been a game in which he hasn't done it. Everyone else does it, too, of course, but seeing as a disproportionate number of points are scored in the last quarter and England's two big advantages are strength in depth and fitness, it does pretty well for them. It will become predictable, but as long as it is working and England can get outplayed as much as they did on Saturday and still win, who am I to complain?
"There's nothing more boring than a room full of dopeheads" - Valerie 'Coan' Bingleton

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 22186
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 07 Feb 2017, 00:13

Nikki Gradual wrote:
Copehead wrote:Wales sound like they had a decent win in the second half after wearing down the Italians, so people immediately call for the bench to start and forget about the work done by the starting 15 to get the bench in a position to prosper.


There are a lot of similarly idiotic halfwits saying the same about England, even some supposedly expert media commentators.
It's like they haven't watched the previous 14 games and realised that upping the pace at 60 minutes by bringing on fresher, quicker impact players (notably Care for Youngs) is Eddie's one big tactic. There has not been a game in which he hasn't done it. Everyone else does it, too, of course, but seeing as a disproportionate number of points are scored in the last quarter and England's two big advantages are strength in depth and fitness, it does pretty well for them. It will become predictable, but as long as it is working and England can get outplayed as much as they did on Saturday and still win, who am I to complain?


I may be obvious and predictable but the Lancaster years have ensured that England have the strongest bench in world rugby, that is a massive advantage, coupled with what appears to be excellent conditioning of the players it means they never feel the need to panic, they have a belief born out of 15 straight victories that they will prevail and even if they are behind in the last quarter their bench means they will win.

It has worked so far, probably only the All Blacks would test that to destruction.

But Wales can certainly win on Saturday, they have a better balance in the back row, a better back 3 and are competitive in most other areas, they will have the crowd behind them if they get ahead.

The one thing they don't appear to have is clear leadership when it comes to a game plan, and that is where England may prevail.

I'd give it 60:40 to England.

Wales are nowhere near as bad as some people, including plenty of Welsh doom mongers, think, they are a settled and experienced side with a sprinkling of world class players.

England are missing some key players at the moment and there were chinks visible in their jackal defense, Wales have better finishers than France so if England play like that again wales will do them with something to spare.

I doubt England will play like that again though, cobwebs blown off for some and a Jones rocket should mean they do enough to win.
Heard a voice shoutng "Don't jump! Please for God's sake let me move my car"


Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 22186
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 07 Feb 2017, 00:28

Deebank wrote:Dan Biggar's cheeky little kicks might fox England - always a big gamble that style of play though.


England's back 3 aren't the most lightening quick or the best broken field runners though.

But I think they will use Biggar's bruised ribs to start Sam Davies, the clamour for it in wales is overwhelming.

He'll start, get smashed by Haskell a few times throw an intercept pass for an England try and then the CyberWelsh will start demanding the return of Biggar.

Such is the way of the internet.
Heard a voice shoutng "Don't jump! Please for God's sake let me move my car"


Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.

User avatar
Geezee
Posts: 11578
Joined: 24 Jul 2003, 10:14
Location: Where joy divides into vision

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Geezee » 07 Feb 2017, 07:59

RIP Joost.
One of the first rugby players that I started to follow closely, so ridiculously handsome and talented, he had it all. Alongside Mike Phillips probably my favourite scrum half.
Smilies are ON
Flash is OFF
Url is ON

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 22186
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 07 Feb 2017, 09:07

Geezee wrote:RIP Joost.
One of the first rugby players that I started to follow closely, so ridiculously handsome and talented, he had it all. Alongside Mike Phillips probably my favourite scrum half.


I think he was better than Phillips.
He has dealt with the cards that life dealt him with real dignity over the last few years.

RIP Joost.
Heard a voice shoutng "Don't jump! Please for God's sake let me move my car"


Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.

User avatar
The Great Defector
Posts: 14284
Joined: 07 Jan 2012, 18:16

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby The Great Defector » 07 Feb 2017, 12:18

So are Eire gonna win the whole lot?

Yeah thought so! in your face the only other 5 nations that compete in this!. Eire Abu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
fueryIre wrote:Deluded by the belief that what is said on chat boards reflects reality or carries any kind of weight in the day-to-day world

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 22186
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 07 Feb 2017, 22:01

The Great Defector wrote:So are Eire gonna win the whole lot?

Yeah thought so! in your face the only other 5 nations that compete in this!. Eire Abu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Eire don't have a rugby team
Heard a voice shoutng "Don't jump! Please for God's sake let me move my car"


Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.

User avatar
The Great Defector
Posts: 14284
Joined: 07 Jan 2012, 18:16

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby The Great Defector » 07 Feb 2017, 22:39

Copehead wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:So are Eire gonna win the whole lot?

Yeah thought so! in your face the only other 5 nations that compete in this!. Eire Abu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Eire don't have a rugby team


Eh?
fueryIre wrote:Deluded by the belief that what is said on chat boards reflects reality or carries any kind of weight in the day-to-day world

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 22186
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 08 Feb 2017, 01:45

The Great Defector wrote:
Copehead wrote:
The Great Defector wrote:So are Eire gonna win the whole lot?

Yeah thought so! in your face the only other 5 nations that compete in this!. Eire Abu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Eire don't have a rugby team


Eh?


I don't think I can say it any more clearly than that.

Eire do not have a rugby team.

The island of Ireland does.
Heard a voice shoutng "Don't jump! Please for God's sake let me move my car"


Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.


Return to “Nextdoorland”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Footy, Nick and 3 guests