Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Nikki Gradual » 20 Jun 2017, 12:42

andymacandy wrote:And can I just record that I think its a nonsense that Alan Dell is a Lion, when Hartley and Launchberry are not.


To be honest, I am not as worked up about it as everyone else seems to be. Gatland has no intention of any of the recently called up players actually taking part in a test match so I don't think he is really devaluing anything. In fact it would probably be more insulting to call up Launchbury and fly him to the other side of the world just to be training ground fodder and to keep the bench warm in the mid-weekers. That status is far better suited to the players he has called up. Besides, the decision to take Kruis isn't looking that daft at the moment.
And I always liked the wild card aspect of the Lions squad anyway: like when Guscott got called up after just one Mickey Mouse international for England (and went again when the De Glanville/Carling farce meant that the country's best centre by a country mile couldn't get on the pitch for them), or when the uncapped Alun Lewis went in the 1970s.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby andymacandy » 21 Jun 2017, 21:01

Nikki Gradual wrote:
andymacandy wrote:And can I just record that I think its a nonsense that Alan Dell is a Lion, when Hartley and Launchberry are not.


To be honest, I am not as worked up about it as everyone else seems to be. Gatland has no intention of any of the recently called up players actually taking part in a test match so I don't think he is really devaluing anything. In fact it would probably be more insulting to call up Launchbury and fly him to the other side of the world just to be training ground fodder and to keep the bench warm in the mid-weekers. That status is far better suited to the players he has called up. Besides, the decision to take Kruis isn't looking that daft at the moment.
And I always liked the wild card aspect of the Lions squad anyway: like when Guscott got called up after just one Mickey Mouse international for England (and went again when the De Glanville/Carling farce meant that the country's best centre by a country mile couldn't get on the pitch for them), or when the uncapped Alun Lewis went in the 1970s.

I agree about the wild card-I dont really have a problem with that, but some of those players selected are way off Lions standard, and it looks like a snub.
Im sure Eddie Jones wont mind at all, but some of those ommited wont ever get a second go.

Squad announced tonight-I dont get Jones selection, especially if he's not capitain.I suppose he deserved squad selection as Wednesday skipper, but there are loads more better 2nd rows than him.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Nikki Gradual » 22 Jun 2017, 09:50

andymacandy wrote:Squad announced tonight-I dont get Jones selection, especially if he's not capitain.I suppose he deserved squad selection as Wednesday skipper, but there are loads more better 2nd rows than him.


I think that overall Wyn Jones has so far been the worst second row on tour, but his steadiness has benefited him. Gatland is clearly planning to strangle the life out of the game and, while both Itoje and Lawes have both shown a lot more flare, they have also been more mercurial, giving away more penalties and making more mistakes that the ABs would punish pretty heavily.
Pretty surprised to see Elliot Daly get a starting spot: I think he might be the inevitable "point to prove" player who gets a lot of exposure so the Lions coach can show that he appreciates raw talent better than that player's home union who waver over him a bit more.
Delighted for O'Mahony. That fella has been a revelation.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 22 Jun 2017, 10:48

Nikki Gradual wrote:
andymacandy wrote:Squad announced tonight-I dont get Jones selection, especially if he's not capitain.I suppose he deserved squad selection as Wednesday skipper, but there are loads more better 2nd rows than him.


I think that overall Wyn Jones has so far been the worst second row on tour, but his steadiness has benefited him. Gatland is clearly planning to strangle the life out of the game and, while both Itoje and Lawes have both shown a lot more flare, they have also been more mercurial, giving away more penalties and making more mistakes that the ABs would punish pretty heavily.
Pretty surprised to see Elliot Daly get a starting spot: I think he might be the inevitable "point to prove" player who gets a lot of exposure so the Lions coach can show that he appreciates raw talent better than that player's home union who waver over him a bit more.
Delighted for O'Mahony. That fella has been a revelation.


It is Alan Wyn
Jones

Not

Alan
Wyn Jones


I think you either start him and end Otoje or start Otoje and end Lawes, and as Lawes has had two HIAs so far this was the safe option plus AW Jones is a warrior

Also pleased to see POM walking out at captain another warrior


Bit bemused about 1/2p on the bench rather than a strike runner

But over all the best possible side and it has shut up the moaners who claimed Gats would pick welshmen

He was always going to pick the form side he isn't an idiot

JDII at 13 is a bit lucky

If they lose the first test they will probably go with Sexton and Farrell and mov Teo to 13
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Nikki Gradual » 22 Jun 2017, 12:47

Copehead wrote:It is Alan Wyn
Jones

Not

Alan
Wyn Jones




It is Alun Wyn
Jones

Not

Alan Wyn
Jones

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Nikki Gradual » 24 Jun 2017, 07:39

Awaits deflated Macandy...
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Nikki Gradual » 24 Jun 2017, 09:22

And breathe...
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby The Write Profile » 24 Jun 2017, 11:34

Well, that was a bloody good game of rugby, it has to be said. 30-15 is probably a fair reflection of how the game panned out, but the Lions at times managed to match the All Blacks for speed and inventiveness, most notably their try from one end of the field to the other- one which will be replayed constantly hereafter one thinks. Where they let themselves down, ironically, was in the close-quarter phases, and upfront in the scrum. Certainly, they showed they were capable of spinning the ball wide, but they messed up the final pass or kick just a little too often for comfort. As for the All Blacks, they had enough moments of brilliance- most notably Ioane's two tries- and sheer stamina to close the game out. They were under pressure for much of the first half and the early stages of the second half, but the Lions shelled at least two easy scoring opportunities.

Ironically, the ABs ended up playing a more conservative game than the Lions for good stretches of the second half. Hard to single out a key player, but Keiran Read was pretty remarkable considering he hasn't played in months and yet was as fresh and forceful as anyone out there, Barrett managed to cope under the pressure, and kicked six from six from the spot, Retallick kept barging through and SBW didn't miss a trick all night. The ABs will be worried about Ben Smith's concussion, and Crotty will be out for a few weeks by the looks of things. Meanwhile, the Lions (ironically) need to simplify their game a bit, put bluntly they ran out of puff near the end. Yet they deserve enormous credit for the spirit in which they played, and they're not far off beating the ABs. A couple of those last passes going to hand and we would've seen a very different game.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby andymacandy » 24 Jun 2017, 12:07

Nikki Gradual wrote:Awaits deflated Macandy...

Ah yes, deflated but not so surprised. It is, after all, Scotland.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby andymacandy » 24 Jun 2017, 12:12

The Write Profile wrote:Well, that was a bloody good game of rugby, it has to be said. 30-15 is probably a fair reflection of how the game panned out, but the Lions at times managed to match the All Blacks for speed and inventiveness, most notably their try from one end of the field to the other- one which will be replayed constantly hereafter one thinks. Where they let themselves down, ironically, was in the close-quarter phases, and upfront in the scrum. Certainly, they showed they were capable of spinning the ball wide, but they messed up the final pass or kick just a little too often for comfort. As for the All Blacks, they had enough moments of brilliance- most notably Ioane's two tries- and sheer stamina to close the game out. They were under pressure for much of the first half and the early stages of the second half, but the Lions shelled at least two easy scoring opportunities.

Ironically, the ABs ended up playing a more conservative game than the Lions for good stretches of the second half. Hard to single out a key player, but Keiran Read was pretty remarkable considering he hasn't played in months and yet was as fresh and forceful as anyone out there, Barrett managed to cope under the pressure, and kicked six from six from the spot, Retallick kept barging through and SBW didn't miss a trick all night. The ABs will be worried about Ben Smith's concussion, and Crotty will be out for a few weeks by the looks of things. Meanwhile, the Lions (ironically) need to simplify their game a bit, put bluntly they ran out of puff near the end. Yet they deserve enormous credit for the spirit in which they played, and they're not far off beating the ABs. A couple of those last passes going to hand and we would've seen a very different game.

I think you are being kind. The ABs ball skills were in a different league, and their ability to make the extra couple of yards after the tackle was crucial in keeping the Lions on the back foot for much of the game. The Lions are improving, but they would take months to get the same cohesiveness that knits together the ABs. Several players did very well, and chances were missed but I think we were well beaten.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Nikki Gradual » 24 Jun 2017, 14:51

andymacandy wrote:
The Write Profile wrote:Well, that was a bloody good game of rugby, it has to be said. 30-15 is probably a fair reflection of how the game panned out, but the Lions at times managed to match the All Blacks for speed and inventiveness, most notably their try from one end of the field to the other- one which will be replayed constantly hereafter one thinks. Where they let themselves down, ironically, was in the close-quarter phases, and upfront in the scrum. Certainly, they showed they were capable of spinning the ball wide, but they messed up the final pass or kick just a little too often for comfort. As for the All Blacks, they had enough moments of brilliance- most notably Ioane's two tries- and sheer stamina to close the game out. They were under pressure for much of the first half and the early stages of the second half, but the Lions shelled at least two easy scoring opportunities.

Ironically, the ABs ended up playing a more conservative game than the Lions for good stretches of the second half. Hard to single out a key player, but Keiran Read was pretty remarkable considering he hasn't played in months and yet was as fresh and forceful as anyone out there, Barrett managed to cope under the pressure, and kicked six from six from the spot, Retallick kept barging through and SBW didn't miss a trick all night. The ABs will be worried about Ben Smith's concussion, and Crotty will be out for a few weeks by the looks of things. Meanwhile, the Lions (ironically) need to simplify their game a bit, put bluntly they ran out of puff near the end. Yet they deserve enormous credit for the spirit in which they played, and they're not far off beating the ABs. A couple of those last passes going to hand and we would've seen a very different game.

I think you are being kind. The ABs ball skills were in a different league, and their ability to make the extra couple of yards after the tackle was crucial in keeping the Lions on the back foot for much of the game. The Lions are improving, but they would take months to get the same cohesiveness that knits together the ABs. Several players did very well, and chances were missed but I think we were well beaten.


The Scottish one is right. It was most blatantly illustrated by the fact that they scored their tries after multiple phases of magnificently controlled rugby, whereas the Lions only looked threatening on freak occasions after moments of individual brilliance. There was a lot the Lions got wrong, playing the man not the ball at the breakdown, way too many penalties and fumbles and missed tackles, but there were some encouraging pointers and stark warnings for the next two tests ie Connor Murray is a shoo-in, Webb is only going to pass to Welsh people, Williams can start pretty much wherever he wants, the ABs don't have long enough arms to tackle Kyle Sinckler, and we picked the wrong second row today.
All in all it will have been a pretty dispiriting match for the Lions because they didn't play especially badly and the AB's won it at a canter. Pretty depressing to have to acknowledge that however well you play, your opposition is simply 10% (at least) better than you in every department.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Geezee » 26 Jun 2017, 11:37

JD was a revelation - haven't seen him play that well for many years. And T'eo did well as well. Itoje needs to come in I think.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby The Write Profile » 01 Jul 2017, 10:34

Wet weather rugby isn't my thing, but what I will say is this: both sides played some of the most cynical, ugly rugby I've seen in a long time. First up: SBW absolutely had to be red-carded for that tackle- it wasn't deliberate but it was dangerous. Secondly: Barrett had a shocker of a game, missing easy penalties and never really getting the opportunity to run it into space. Thirdly, the Lions' two tries were almost like the All Blacks in terms of how clinical they were, and they deserved to win. Even allowing for the fact they were playing with 14 men, to keep the ABs tryless is definitely an achievement. But the discipline from both sides leaves a lot to be desired: there were countless infringements, cheap shots and just general ugly stuff that really should have been put to bed sooner, and I hope the next match in Auckland is played in better spirits. That match just made me angry, to be honest. But well done Lions.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Nikki Gradual » 01 Jul 2017, 13:08

The Write Profile wrote: it wasn't deliberate


Yes it was. Extremely plainly so.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Nikki Gradual » 01 Jul 2017, 13:11

The Write Profile wrote:Wet weather rugby isn't my thing, but what I will say is this: both sides played some of the most cynical, ugly rugby I've seen in a long time. First up: SBW absolutely had to be red-carded for that tackle- it wasn't deliberate but it was dangerous. Secondly: Barrett had a shocker of a game, missing easy penalties and never really getting the opportunity to run it into space. Thirdly, the Lions' two tries were almost like the All Blacks in terms of how clinical they were, and they deserved to win. Even allowing for the fact they were playing with 14 men, to keep the ABs tryless is definitely an achievement. But the discipline from both sides leaves a lot to be desired: there were countless infringements, cheap shots and just general ugly stuff that really should have been put to bed sooner, and I hope the next match in Auckland is played in better spirits. That match just made me angry, to be honest. But well done Lions.


A loss is a loss I guess, but if you look at the match stats and allow for the fact that they were playing against 14 men for two thirds of the game, that should on paper have been a comfortable win for the Lions by 10-20 points, so the fact that against that, and playing pretty poorly by their standards, the AB's still bossed 80 minutes of squeaky-bum time is a measure of their supremacy.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby The Write Profile » 01 Jul 2017, 22:53

Nikki Gradual wrote:
The Write Profile wrote: it wasn't deliberate


Yes it was. Extremely plainly so.


Regardless, it was bloody stupid, and had to be red-carded. It'll be interesting to see what the citing commissioner makes of it- I imagine he'll be out for at least another couple of weeks at the least. Like I said, the Lions deserved their win but christ, it was an ugly match.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Mike Boom » 01 Jul 2017, 23:43

Yeah it was a terribly ugly game that the Lions deserved to win, mostly because of their defense, which was extremely flat and stifled the All Blacks backline (the rain also helped of course). Rarely have I seen the All Blacks go for so long without at least one clean line break and ultimately thats where the Lions are doing a great job. Whether they can continue you to do that on a hopefully dry Eden Park is another matter. Having said that, the penalty that decided the game was completely stupid. So now whenever a player receives the ball and looks like he's about to be tackled he can jump up in the air and get a penalty. In future game are we going to see players pogoing down the field ?

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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 03 Jul 2017, 17:01

I thought it was a typical game played in a downpour really, expecting champagne rugby in a monsoon, even when the Lions and ABs are playing, is pushing it.

What surprised me was that from the word go it was the Lions that tried to play all the running rugby - JD's out of the back of the hand pass in the opening minutes, both times the ABs made it into the Lions 22 with good ball BB kicked, poorly. Both times the Lions made it into the ABs 22 they scored tries off the next phase, clinical. Almost like a roll reversal.

With the weather it was a day for defences, it also helped cover for the ABs missing a back as slick handling moves to exploit that overlap are a rarity, even when the Lions got quick ball in the 22 there were no overlaps, Faletau went over the cover and Murray went inside it.

Even on the defensive measures the Lions outplayed the All Blacks who only managed 1 line break all game, the All Blacks were "reduced" to playing warrenball, amusingly, sending their Dr Roberts players up the 10 12 channel all day and then kicking through the defensive line.

I doubt the all Blacks can play the badly twice on the bounce so I fully expect them to win despite another wet night and another French ref, but this was a game that the Lions won everywhere other than on the scoreboard where giving away stupid penalties outside their 22 cost them 7 times. So the Lions have huge room for improvement on that score so it could be close.

The SBW red isn't even an issue it was blatant and stupid, 4 weeks is lenient
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby Copehead » 03 Jul 2017, 17:15

Mike Boom wrote:Having said that, the penalty that decided the game was completely stupid. So now whenever a player receives the ball and looks like he's about to be tackled he can jump up in the air and get a penalty. In future game are we going to see players pogoing down the field ?


No: if Sinckler jumps in the air with the ball in his possession into the tackle it is a penalty against him - jumping into a tackle. This is not against the laws directly but is generally thought to be against the spirit of the game and every ref will give a penalty against the player.

This was just a mistimed tackle, he'd lined him up before he had caught the ball and Sinckler had to jump to catch the ball and so he was tackled in the air, penalty, bad luck. Should have waited a second, he was just too eager to make the big hit and it cost the All Blacks the game, sometimes you just don't get the rub of the green even if you are an All Black.
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Re: Copehead's RWC thread NOW IN ITS 14TH GREAT YEAR

Postby The Write Profile » 04 Jul 2017, 11:17

Copehead wrote:
The SBW red isn't even an issue it was blatant and stupid, 4 weeks is lenient


Yeah, no one is protesting that. I think we've just seen him play his last ever game for the ABs. Granted, he's largely been a fair player on and off the field but I don't think Hansen will stand for that incident.
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