Ban linguistics

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
Positive Passion
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Ban linguistics

Postby Positive Passion » 13 Sep 2020, 19:03

In a slightly frivolous way, I have a fascination for linguistics, stimulated in this instance by the phrase "ban jimbo".
In English, the consonant-vowel-consonant combination using b and n as the consonants produces three normal English words - ban, bin, and bun. Ben, of course, is in common usage, but as a name, and derived from the Biblical name Benjamin.

But why is "bon" not a normal English word?

There are dozens of examples of this - mag meg mig mog mug - mag is an abbreviation, meg a diminutive, mog a slang term and mug a sort of cup - but mig is not a normal English word. Why not?

Tap tep tip top tup. Tep is the odd one here.


Anyway, anyone else interested in speculating?
Last edited by Positive Passion on 13 Sep 2020, 19:57, edited 2 times in total.

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Minnie the Minx
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Re: Ban linguistics

Postby Minnie the Minx » 13 Sep 2020, 19:10

Oh ffs. I’m trying to take a nap and now all I can think about is cop cap cup. I’d only just stopped trying to think who once told me dalmations were evil, and now this!
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Matt Wilson
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Re: Ban linguistics

Postby Matt Wilson » 13 Sep 2020, 19:15

You come at the Minx, you'd best not jinx.

Positive Passion
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Re: Ban linguistics

Postby Positive Passion » 13 Sep 2020, 19:38

Minnie the Minx wrote:Oh ffs. I’m trying to take a nap and now all I can think about is cop cap cup. I’d only just stopped trying to think who once told me dalmations were evil, and now this!


Well yes indeed - why cep not a normal English word? Cep maybe sneaks in via latin - I have come across it in refs to mushrooms - but even then the first sound is an s, not a k. Cip is an English word, though we represent the sound with a k - kip.

I mention CVC words because they are simple formations, and you would have thought they would all be used up before going onto 4 letter words (although strictly I should say 4 phoneme words - "sack" is really a cvc word, even though we use two letters for the 'k' sound (contrast with, say, "from", which is made up of four sounds).
Sack seck sick sock suck. Four out of five.
Fram frem frim from frum. Only one of these is a normal English word).

Positive Passion
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Re: Ban linguistics

Postby Positive Passion » 13 Sep 2020, 19:45

Matt Wilson wrote:You come at the Minx, you'd best not jinx.


Binx dinx finx ginx hinx JINX KINKS LYNX MINX ninx PINKS RINKS SINKS tinx vinx WINKS yinx zinx.

Not bad, really. [I have used the accepted spellings of the sounds.]

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Sam Stone
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Re: Ban linguistics

Postby Sam Stone » 13 Sep 2020, 19:49

Positive Passion wrote:

Fram frem frim from frum





Careful PP!

Keep up that level of eloquence and
Coan'll be promising you star poster status
over at Preludin.

Positive Passion
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Re: Ban linguistics

Postby Positive Passion » 13 Sep 2020, 19:56

Sam Stone wrote:
Positive Passion wrote:

Fram frem frim from frum





Careful PP!

Keep up that level of eloquence and
Coan'll be promising you star poster status
over at Preludin.


I confess to being overexcited after indulging in hard spirits, but I do find liguistic development fascinating.

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Charlie O.
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Re: Ban linguistics

Postby Charlie O. » 13 Sep 2020, 20:19

Positive Passion wrote:
Matt Wilson wrote:You come at the Minx, you'd best not jinx.


Binx dinx finx ginx hinx JINX KINKS LYNX MINX ninx PINKS RINKS SINKS tinx vinx WINKS yinx zinx.

Not bad, really. [I have used the accepted spellings of the sounds.]

You missed dinks and finks.
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Matt Wilson
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Re: Ban linguistics

Postby Matt Wilson » 13 Sep 2020, 20:27

This stinks.

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Re: Ban linguistics

Postby Jimbo » 13 Sep 2020, 20:27

Positive Passion wrote: but mig is not a normal English word.


MIG is okay for online Scrabble.
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kath
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Re: Ban linguistics

Postby kath » 13 Sep 2020, 20:29

i'm not sure there''s any real answer to this if yer looking for some hard and fast linguistic rule. maybe someone else who does know of any can cop a cup and come in here. but i will make a few very vague, rather useless guesses.

language is in massive flux over time. words get created. some die. some stick. some that stick for ages die. new words fly in.

see me being profound?

but i do tend to think the most basic, hard core words that have lived on in english come from old english (anglo-saxon era, beowulf), itself latinate and germanic. so the same forms (basically) of cop, cap, cup were used then. the hard sounds are gonna last longer than the soft c sound.

as for vowels, i imagine the short -i and short -e sounds are just a lil bit harder to say. yer mouth has to do a slight bit more to configure the sound than short -o's, sort -a's and short -u's.

but these are just guesses. mwhahaha. i am perfectly happy to be corrected.

p.s. "bon" is french, right? doesn't have the same thrust as leather armor and a sword.

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Re: Ban linguistics

Postby Positive Passion » 13 Sep 2020, 20:30

Charlie O. wrote:
Positive Passion wrote:
Matt Wilson wrote:You come at the Minx, you'd best not jinx.


Binx dinx finx ginx hinx JINX KINKS LYNX MINX ninx PINKS RINKS SINKS tinx vinx WINKS yinx zinx.

Not bad, really. [I have used the accepted spellings of the sounds.]

You missed dinks and finks.


Dinks is right. FINKS surely is transliterated cockney dialect, rather than normal English? Or does it actually mean something?
Last edited by Positive Passion on 13 Sep 2020, 20:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Sam Stone
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Re: Ban linguistics

Postby Sam Stone » 13 Sep 2020, 20:36

Positive Passion wrote:
Charlie O. wrote:
Positive Passion wrote:
Binx dinx finx ginx hinx JINX KINKS LYNX MINX ninx PINKS RINKS SINKS tinx vinx WINKS yinx zinx.

Not bad, really. [I have used the accepted spellings of the sounds.]

You missed dinks and finks.


Dinks is right. FINKS surely is transliterated cockney dialect, rather than normal English? Or dies it actually mean something?



Fink is an American slang term meaning something like a wrong ‘un or a ne’er do well

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Charlie O.
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Re: Ban linguistics

Postby Charlie O. » 13 Sep 2020, 20:37

Positive Passion wrote:Dinks is right. FINKS surely is transliterated cockney dialect, rather than normal English? Or dies it actually mean something?

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/fink?s=t

not to mention

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/ratfink?s=t
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Re: Ban linguistics

Postby Positive Passion » 13 Sep 2020, 20:48

Sam Stone wrote:
Positive Passion wrote:
Charlie O. wrote:You missed dinks and finks.


Dinks is right. FINKS surely is transliterated cockney dialect, rather than normal English? Or dies it actually mean something?



Fink is an American slang term meaning something like a wrong ‘un or a ne’er do well


A completely different language!!! I jest. Slang terms are are tricky - they are often DESIGNED to be outside the normal linguistics, though of course they can schieve wide usage. But great!

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Charlie O.
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Re: Ban linguistics

Postby Charlie O. » 13 Sep 2020, 20:56

I sometimes wonder what makes one word "slang" and another word not.
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kath
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Re: Ban linguistics

Postby kath » 13 Sep 2020, 21:01

Charlie O. wrote:I sometimes wonder what makes one word "slang" and another word not.


this is the kinda thing i could talk about for hours. mwhaha (everybody calm down. i won't. saints game coming.)

but my quick shot answer would be: slang is basically what people come up with to make lingo their own. different from their parents. their teachers. the machine. i think of it as riffin, really.

... which means it changes the fastest of all.

who decides what language is "acceptable" and whatnot is a long topic indeed.

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Re: Ban linguistics

Postby Positive Passion » 13 Sep 2020, 21:04

Charlie O. wrote:I sometimes wonder what makes one word "slang" and another word not.


A very interesting question! And usage plays a big part!
There's that old story about the introduction of the word "quiz". It was created for a bet! Or not.

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Charlie O.
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Re: Ban linguistics

Postby Charlie O. » 13 Sep 2020, 21:07

kath wrote:
Charlie O. wrote:I sometimes wonder what makes one word "slang" and another word not.


this is the kinda thing i could talk about for hours. mwhaha (everybody calm down. i won't. saints game coming.)

but my quick shot answer would be: slang is basically what people come up with to make lingo their own. different from their parents. their teachers. the machine. i think of it as riffin, really.

... which means it changes the fastest of all.

who decides what language is "acceptable" and whatnot is a long topic indeed.

But a lot of slang words eventually become long term common language, do they not?

I mean, "fink" has been around for (checks link in earlier post) well over a century, now. It seems to me that it's ready to graduate to real word-dom.
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Re: Ban linguistics

Postby Positive Passion » 13 Sep 2020, 21:11

kath wrote:
who decides what language is "acceptable" and whatnot is a long topic indeed.


Yes. My personal fascination is with the development of the words, not with what is "acceptable". I don't quite get that.
My only point in descrinbing something as slang is that it is deliberately designed to be different, and often exclusive - this also applies to the jargon of any particular industry - and therfore has not developed in the same way as non-slang words. But as noted the question of what is (or was) slang is a good one to consider.