Supplements - vitamins, etc.

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Jimbo
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Supplements - vitamins, etc.

Postby Jimbo » 24 Jul 2020, 00:45

Not a supplement user nor even a believer, yesterday a friend of mine just dumped in my lap a whole lot of Saw Palmetto capsules that he uses to help his prostate condition, to help him to pee more freely and less frequently. (You youngsters don't know what I am talking about but YOU WILL.) I asked him if it helps and he says he is not sure if its the prescription prostate drugs he takes, the saw palmetto or the combo, but he is doing all right. As am I with my prescription drugs. But my condition is no where nearly perfect and I await to see if it gets better. Hopefully the supplement will help. Maybe I will become a believer. Maybe I will take other supplements.

Do you take any supplements or vitamins? Do you notice any kind of instantaneous boost when you take them? Cuz that's the thing for me. Take a toke or a snort and boom, I'm there. These things seem to take time and act too subtly for an impatient guy like me.

So, hopefully, without too much rancor, may we discuss this potentially helpful topic?
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Positive Passion
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Re: Supplements - vitamins, etc.

Postby Positive Passion » 24 Jul 2020, 06:54

Generally I take lots of vitamin C.i don't get an instant boost, but I suspect it is part of the reason why I have not had a day off work for god knows how long. That along with my robust constitution.

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Jimbo
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Re: Supplements - vitamins, etc.

Postby Jimbo » 24 Jul 2020, 07:23

Positive Passion wrote:Generally I take lots of vitamin C.


How much is a lot? There seems to be an awful lot of guesswork in the off the shelf supplement/vitamin world. Those in the know seem to know how many mg., etc. My newly acquired saw palmetto capsules may be the largest pills I've ever swallowed. And I take two at once.

I'm a big boy. I can swallow my medicine. :D
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Positive Passion
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Re: Supplements - vitamins, etc.

Postby Positive Passion » 24 Jul 2020, 08:40

Jimbo wrote:
Positive Passion wrote:Generally I take lots of vitamin C.


How much is a lot? There seems to be an awful lot of guesswork in the off the shelf supplement/vitamin world. Those in the know seem to know how many mg., etc. My newly acquired saw palmetto capsules may be the largest pills I've ever swallowed. And I take two at once.

I'm a big boy. I can swallow my medicine. :D


4000 mg a day.

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Jimbo
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Re: Supplements - vitamins, etc.

Postby Jimbo » 24 Jul 2020, 10:55

Positive Passion wrote:
4000 mg a day.


Means nothing ... :oops:
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souphound
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Re: Supplements - vitamins, etc.

Postby souphound » 24 Jul 2020, 13:02

As far as vitamin C is concerned, I believe hat if you ingest too much of it, the body simply ignores and eliminates the excess. I'm sure there is a limit to that ability.

Not sure the above is true, just something I seem to remember from years ago.
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Robert
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Re: Supplements - vitamins, etc.

Postby Robert » 24 Jul 2020, 13:18

souphound wrote:As far as vitamin C is concerned, I believe hat if you ingest too much of it, the body simply ignores and eliminates the excess. I'm sure there is a limit to that ability.

Not sure the above is true, just something I seem to remember from years ago.


It is true. Adult men only need 90 mg a day, most of that you have easily covered when you rat veg and fruit.

4 grams of VitC is completely pointless, most of that you’ll
piss out.

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Rayge
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Re: Supplements - vitamins, etc.

Postby Rayge » 24 Jul 2020, 15:57

Robert wrote:
souphound wrote:As far as vitamin C is concerned, I believe hat if you ingest too much of it, the body simply ignores and eliminates the excess. I'm sure there is a limit to that ability.

Not sure the above is true, just something I seem to remember from years ago.


It is true. Adult men only need 90 mg a day, most of that you have easily covered when you rat veg and fruit.

4 grams of VitC is completely pointless, most of that you’ll
piss out.


Mega-doses of Vitamin C are an excellent cure for constipation, provided you consider replacing it with diarrhoea as a cure. I'm pretty sure that Linus Pauling's theories about this have been discredited, although I followed his gram a day regime for a while when I was a young man.
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Robert
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Re: Supplements - vitamins, etc.

Postby Robert » 24 Jul 2020, 22:21

Rayge wrote:
Robert wrote:
souphound wrote:As far as vitamin C is concerned, I believe hat if you ingest too much of it, the body simply ignores and eliminates the excess. I'm sure there is a limit to that ability.

Not sure the above is true, just something I seem to remember from years ago.


It is true. Adult men only need 90 mg a day, most of that you have easily covered when you rat veg and fruit.

4 grams of VitC is completely pointless, most of that you’ll
piss out.


Mega-doses of Vitamin C are an excellent cure for constipation, provided you consider replacing it with diarrhoea as a cure. I'm pretty sure that Linus Pauling's theories about this have been discredited, although I followed his gram a day regime for a while when I was a young man.



A gram a day doesn’t do much apart from, maybe, possible placebo effects.

Diarrhoea is indeed a possible by-effect of overdosing
on Vit-C. As is a possible sleeping disorder. I think these effects are unlikely to occur under 3g/day.

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Jimbo
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Re: Supplements - vitamins, etc.

Postby Jimbo » 25 Jul 2020, 03:42

Rayge wrote:
Mega-doses of Vitamin C are an excellent cure for constipation.


What about magniseum?
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John aka Josh
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Re: Supplements - vitamins, etc.

Postby John aka Josh » 26 Jul 2020, 00:48

My view of supplements are that they're a waste of money, most often you're swallowing something that your body isn't going to benefit from, usually because it is presented in a form that is not digestible. Here's some info from https://philmaffetone.com/six-facts-vitamin-c/ just about Vitamin C.





Vitamin C is the aspirin of the dietary supplement industry, but just like the seemingly benign pain-killer, there are some important health considerations if you take this synthetic nutrient.


Vitamin C products are the most successful business venture in the multi-billion-dollar dietary supplement industry.

What most people know as “vitamin C” is actually industrially produced synthetic ascorbic acid —made by drug companies. This chemical form of vitamin C is widely used as both a nutritional supplement and as a preservative in the food, pharmaceutical and animal feed sectors. Much of the synthetic vitamin C in the world is sold to health-conscious consumers.

Synthetic supplements have lower bioavailability than real foods, which means you can’t absorb them nearly as well. Studies have shown that vitamin C from food is absorbed 35 percent better and excreted more slowly than synthetic vitamin C. In addition, the body attempts to eliminate synthetic vitamin C, so in some circumstances taking higher doses may actually cause excess loss.

Conversely, real vitamin C as found in real food is accompanied by a complex of many other naturally occurring phytonutrients. As such, the body’s vitamin C requirements are best met from foods rich in this nutrient.

Natural vitamin C is required for growth and repair of tissues in all parts of your body. It plays an important role in the production of collagen and certain neurotransmitters, and is valuable in healing and protein metabolism. A powerful antioxidant, it impacts immune function, and its presence in food can influence various conditions such as cancer, cardiovascular disease, high blood pressure, asthma, osteoarthritis, macular degeneration and cataracts, and others.

Nature provides plenty of real vitamin C in foods. Broccoli, Brussels sprouts, kale, acerola and other foods are particularly rich sources not only of vitamin C but thousands of other phytonutrients associated with vitamin C. You can also find large amounts of vitamin C in animal sources, especially the adrenal and thymus glands, brain, bone marrow, pancreas, liver and kidney (even the eyes though few people eat these). While most people don’t eat organ meats, many unfortunately also avoid the most vitamin C-rich portions of plant foods: the white pulp of peppers and citrus (including the skins).

Nutritional need for vitamin C varies with age, sex and state of health for all individuals, with higher levels required by smokers and others with special requirements. The new daily value (DV) for vitamin C is 90 mg for adults and children age 4 and older.

Because this nutrient generates so much money throughout the industry, the negative potential effects of improper vitamin C intake are not usually brought to light. Here are six of them:

1. Synthetic vitamin C is ineffective. From the common cold and cancer, to heart disease and overall mortality, scientific studies continue to show synthetic vitamin C supplements have little to no benefits. Furthermore, evidence remains mixed regarding the purported effect of synthetic vitamin C on overall health, sports performance, and recovery from muscle damage.

2. Most vitamin C is fake — and it’s made from sugar. Almost all vitamin C supplements on the marketplace are synthetic. Since glucose and vitamin C have similar chemical structures, it’s easy and cheap to produce fake vitamin C from sugar, typically using corn. A look at the label is all that’s needed to tell whether vitamin C is naturally sourced: Since even the foods richest in vitamin C don’t contain very high concentrations, doses above 300 mg in a supplement almost always indicate a synthetic source.

3. Vitamin C absorption is impaired by carbohydrates. In the intestines, vitamin C absorption competes with glucose for absorption. Ironically, many vitamin C products and food products with added vitamin C also contain added sugar. So consuming junk food could result in lower absorption rates for vitamin C.

4. High doses may produce serious side effects. A variety of side effects are attributed to vitamin C doses of 500-1,000 mg. Popular doses can produce harmful free radicals when they react with iron in the body or other dietary supplements. In addition, higher doses of synthetic vitamin C themselves can become pro-oxidants. Published studies demonstrate that 1000 mg/day of synthetic vitamin C can interfere with cell signaling in working muscles. This blocks the body’s ability to adapt to training, reducing endurance performance gains. Other side effects may include heartburn, diarrhea, nausea, abdominal bloating, risk of forming kidney stones and inhibition of vitamin B12 function. In addition, synthetic vitamin C can adversely react with many over-the-counter and prescription medications.

5. Less is more. Up to 200 mg of natural vitamin C may be contained in a meal of fresh fruits and vegetables. In this natural presentation and dosage, almost all of the vitamin can be absorbed. However, our bodies can utilize at most 500 mg of a vitamin C supplement leading to reductions of over 50 percent in the absorption rate of higher doses. Studies show levels above this amount can have unhealthy effects. Even Linus Pauling, a proponent of very high dose synthetic vitamin C, said in 1974 that “the first 250 mg is more important than any later 250 mg. The first 250 mg leads you up to the level where the blood is saturated.”

6. Real food works best. Studies have long shown that people whose diets were rich in real foods naturally high in vitamin C — typically around 200 mg per day — have a lower risk of heart disease, certain cancers and other diseases. Vitamin C in foods have not been shown to cause any of the problems of synthetic supplement use. In addition, food sources of vitamin C have not been shown to cause adverse reactions to medications.

The portrayal of vitamin C as a safe and effective supplement is a broad generalization promoted by an industry that is making billions off high-dose synthetic products. Although we all need adequate amounts of vitamin C for good health, this nutrient is best obtained as nature intended — from real, natural foods.
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Jimbo
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Re: Supplements - vitamins, etc.

Postby Jimbo » 26 Jul 2020, 05:18

As I said, I didn't pay a dime for what may be a year's worth of these saw palmetto capsules and if I had gone into a shop and paid it surely would have cost me a pretty penny. Why my friend is dumping them on me is probably as my wife suspects, they're too near the sell-by date. (Which doesn't bother me because another thing I think is horseshit are those sell-by dates. Am I right? :?)

Most importantly is that on the internet I read that saw palmetto is touted as a prostate condition reliever and my prostate condition ain't no conspiracy. Motherfucker is real. Peeing two, three times a night is a drag. What else I know about about saw palmetto is that even more than ugly, sprawly condo projects, South Florida is choked with enormous, Everglades-sized swamp-fulls of it. We just call it palmetto or palmetto grass or sawgrass. And if you think mosquitoes are good for nothing, palmetto is worth even less. Try walking through a patch. Shit's got saws!

Back in the day, weedless on the old Israeli kibbutz, we tried drying and smoking alfalfa. We grew acres and acres of the stuff. Didn't work. Now, if this saw palmetto somehow does the trick and helps to relieve my condition, oh boy will I be grateful. But I'm skeptical too. I am so skeptical I imagine some money-less schlub marooned in South Florida was looking around and wondering what the fuck he could do with all these gnarly - and free - weeds? A prostate medicine, of course!

Only three days in of taking two capsules in the morning and two at night. Still waking up and peeing. We'll see .... :|
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Jimbo
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Re: Supplements - vitamins, etc.

Postby Jimbo » 26 Jul 2020, 08:58

.
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Sam Stone
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Postby Sam Stone » 26 Jul 2020, 11:54

How Big Pharma works


Jimbo wrote:
Some money-less schlub marooned in South Florida was looking around and wondering what the fuck he could do with all these gnarly - and free - weeds? A prostate medicine, of course!

Only three days in of taking two capsules in the morning and two at night. Still waking up and peeing. We'll see .... :|


Aside from doctor recommended Vitamin D and Omega fish oil, I mainly take immune-stuff - selenium, folic acid.

About 30 years back aspirin was all the rage and I took one daily for years and years until the day I had a medical and my doctor asked me about supplements.

The look of horror that spread across his face when I mentioned aspirin was priceless.

"What idiot recommended you take that?" the man asked. "An idiot with a white coat and stethoscope exactly like yours about 20 years back", I replied.

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Diamond Dog
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Re: Supplements - vitamins, etc.

Postby Diamond Dog » 26 Jul 2020, 17:46

Whatever you take - do NOT wear a mask!!
So I got several cans of Pringles.But what they don't fucking tell you..is that the primary ingredient is something called "olean" which I have since learned is Latin for "Unwashable & Indestructible Ass Grease."

Sam Stone
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Re: Supplements - vitamins, etc.

Postby Sam Stone » 26 Jul 2020, 20:46

Diamond Dog wrote:Whatever you take - do NOT wear a mask!!



Not even Jimbo’s stooooopid enough to try and stuff his face
Full of dodgy vitamin pills while wearing a facemask.


No, wait....

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Re: Supplements - vitamins, etc.

Postby Flower » 27 Jul 2020, 11:52

Jimbo wrote:Only three days in of taking two capsules in the morning and two at night. Still waking up and peeing. We'll see .... :|


Is this a good or bad thing? :?

*Waking up is good. :)
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