Steve Bell cancelled by the Guardian

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
Sam Stone
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Re: Steve Bell cancelled by the Guardian

Postby Sam Stone » 21 Jul 2020, 09:21

Rorschach wrote:I thought he stopped being funny about 30 years ago.

But I don't see what's offensive about this picture.


I think it's the fact that Patel was raised as a Hindu and cows are sacred animals to Hindus.

That said, as I noted up the page, the cartoon ran in March so why all the kerfuffle now?

Bell did indeed stop being funny many, many years back but he's a far better cartoonist than his former colleague
Martin "None more black" Rowson

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Re: Steve Bell cancelled by the Guardian

Postby Deebank » 21 Jul 2020, 13:17

On the whole political cartoonists aren't shit yer pants, split your sides funny. But Bell is still funnier than any other I can think of. Matt in the Telegraph (not really the same sort of cartoonist) is worth a wry chuckle now and then but in the UK at least SB is miles ahead.
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Re: Steve Bell cancelled by the Guardian

Postby Rayge » 21 Jul 2020, 13:25

Minnie the Minx wrote:
John aka Josh wrote:







Sorry, I know I'm being a bit pedantic but this is a bit of a peeve of mine. I get annoyed when there are adverts for cheese or milk which have cows portrayed as males.


:)


Surely she's being shown as a bull because she has been accused of bullying? It's a pun ffs
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Geezee
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Re: Steve Bell cancelled by the Guardian

Postby Geezee » 21 Jul 2020, 18:12

Sam Stone wrote:
Rorschach wrote:I thought he stopped being funny about 30 years ago.

But I don't see what's offensive about this picture.


I think it's the fact that Patel was raised as a Hindu and cows are sacred animals to Hindus.

That said, as I noted up the page, the cartoon ran in March so why all the kerfuffle now?

Bell did indeed stop being funny many, many years back but he's a far better cartoonist than his former colleague
Martin "None more black" Rowson


There is no kerfuffle - but in the age of the cancel culture wars it's trendy. I'm sure JK Rowling et al will publish another indignant letter to a prestigious, widely read magazine about how their privileged voices are being pushed down.
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Re: Steve Bell cancelled by the Guardian

Postby Sam Stone » 21 Jul 2020, 19:26

Geezee wrote:
Sam Stone wrote:
Rorschach wrote:I thought he stopped being funny about 30 years ago.

But I don't see what's offensive about this picture.


I think it's the fact that Patel was raised as a Hindu and cows are sacred animals to Hindus.

That said, as I noted up the page, the cartoon ran in March so why all the kerfuffle now?

Bell did indeed stop being funny many, many years back but he's a far better cartoonist than his former colleague
Martin "None more black" Rowson


There is no kerfuffle - but in the age of the cancel culture wars it's trendy. I'm sure JK Rowling et al will publish another indignant letter to a prestigious, widely read magazine about how their privileged voices are being pushed down.


If no kerfuffle, why did the OP start a thread about a cartoon it turned out was three months old?

Sorry, but don't see what JK Rowling has to do with any of this

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Re: Steve Bell cancelled by the Guardian

Postby John aka Josh » 21 Jul 2020, 23:37

Rayge wrote:
Minnie the Minx wrote:
John aka Josh wrote:



Sorry, I know I'm being a bit pedantic but this is a bit of a peeve of mine. I get annoyed when there are adverts for cheese or milk which have cows portrayed as males.


:)


Surely she's being shown as a bull because she has been accused of bullying? It's a pun ffs



Samoan saying
bulls (uncastrated male cows)
is a pun? That is what I referred to, ffs.
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Re: Steve Bell cancelled by the Guardian

Postby Samoan » 22 Jul 2020, 18:09

Nonsense to the aggressiveness, I've seen more aggression on the my little pony message board......I mean I was told.

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Re: Steve Bell cancelled by the Guardian

Postby Rayge » 22 Jul 2020, 18:31

John aka Josh wrote:
Rayge wrote:
Minnie the Minx wrote:
:)


Surely she's being shown as a bull because she has been accused of bullying? It's a pun ffs



Samoan saying
bulls (uncastrated male cows)
is a pun? That is what I referred to, ffs.


Ah, sorry, shouldn't have quoted you - I was trying to make the point that Bell showed her as a bull because she was accused of bullying, rather than because she had a Hindu upbringing or any of the other stuff. I don't see what Samoan writes. Apologies for my carelessness.
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Re: Steve Bell cancelled by the Guardian

Postby John aka Josh » 23 Jul 2020, 00:01

No problem Rayge.
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Re: Steve Bell cancelled by the Guardian

Postby Geezee » 25 Jul 2020, 10:35

Sam Stone wrote:
Geezee wrote:
Sam Stone wrote:
I think it's the fact that Patel was raised as a Hindu and cows are sacred animals to Hindus.

That said, as I noted up the page, the cartoon ran in March so why all the kerfuffle now?

Bell did indeed stop being funny many, many years back but he's a far better cartoonist than his former colleague
Martin "None more black" Rowson


There is no kerfuffle - but in the age of the cancel culture wars it's trendy. I'm sure JK Rowling et al will publish another indignant letter to a prestigious, widely read magazine about how their privileged voices are being pushed down.


If no kerfuffle, why did the OP start a thread about a cartoon it turned out was three months old?

Sorry, but don't see what JK Rowling has to do with any of this


JK Rowling has been rambling about how her and others are being hounded off the internet for having unpopular (in her case transphobic) beliefs. They had a letter published in Harpers recently complaining about how they are being silenced - the irony seemingly passing them completely by. The "controversy" around Steve Bell falls into the same general theme of contrary voices being "cancelled" by easily offended snowflakes.

In fairness to KP he is only repeating what news outlets have been reporting - that this particular cartoon led to Bell's dismissal. As far as I can tell, not a single article can actually properly put the two together - they are just surmising that the controversy over that cartoon led to his dismissal (as another example of the cancel culture) without any actual evidence. As far as I can tell, there is also no actual evidence that he has even been sacked.
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Re: Steve Bell cancelled by the Guardian

Postby Deebank » 25 Jul 2020, 14:21

Geezee wrote:
Sam Stone wrote:
Geezee wrote:
There is no kerfuffle - but in the age of the cancel culture wars it's trendy. I'm sure JK Rowling et al will publish another indignant letter to a prestigious, widely read magazine about how their privileged voices are being pushed down.


If no kerfuffle, why did the OP start a thread about a cartoon it turned out was three months old?

Sorry, but don't see what JK Rowling has to do with any of this


JK Rowling has been rambling about how her and others are being hounded off the internet for having unpopular (in her case transphobic) beliefs. They had a letter published in Harpers recently complaining about how they are being silenced - the irony seemingly passing them completely by. The "controversy" around Steve Bell falls into the same general theme of contrary voices being "cancelled" by easily offended snowflakes.

In fairness to KP he is only repeating what news outlets have been reporting - that this particular cartoon led to Bell's dismissal. As far as I can tell, not a single article can actually properly put the two together - they are just surmising that the controversy over that cartoon led to his dismissal (as another example of the cancel culture) without any actual evidence. As far as I can tell, there is also no actual evidence that he has even been sacked.


I think you're on dodgy ground stating that JKR harbours 'transphobic beliefs'. I think it would be fair to say that they are something she had been accused of harbouring though. But we are straying into very murky waters. But I suppose it depends on your definition of transphobia and whether you believe on group's rights trump another's.

As far as I can see she was saying that certain spaces should be exclusively for the use of XX chromosome humans (fuck me! You really have to choose your language carefully these days) and exclude XY people (women's refuges etc). Then there are the certain fairly rational arguments about professional sport plus a couple of othe contentious areas.

Asking honest questions about these subjects shouldn't make you a target for abuse or make you a transphobe.
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KeithPratt
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Re: Steve Bell cancelled by the Guardian

Postby KeithPratt » 25 Jul 2020, 20:30

She doesn't have "transphobic" beliefs.

This whole thing is ridiculous. She has stated that she has particular views on sex and gender. Those views are not in total alignment with what some in the trans community have about the subject. There is no correct "truth" on this issue though and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

The problem is that for certain sections of the Trans community, it seems that anyone who says something that causes something of a mild disagreement is immediately labelled a "transphobe". J K Rowling explicitly declared empathy for trans people in the letter she published.

No-one doubts that the lives of some Trans people are difficult, that they have difficult experiences and that their "lived experiences" produce powerful emotions on the matter. But to immediately daub people as being "phobic" because they have a disagreement with them is hugely counter-productive.

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Re: Steve Bell cancelled by the Guardian

Postby Geezee » 27 Jul 2020, 15:55

Of course she is - the problem is more around people being so thin-skinned around being called out for being transphobic (or any other kind of phobic). I accept it's tough to be called it, but perhaps take it as an occasion for self-reflection and understanding the enormous harm and pain that your beliefs actually mean, instead of railing against some imagined liberal hypocrisy or "cancel culture", would be an advisable personal journey for her. It's not like any of this is anything new - discussions like this hvae been going on across the history of the feminist wars on the subject, but by any definition of the word, she is transphobic, in the same way that David Irving is a holocaust denier notwithstanding his attempts to be called otherwise. To then use Harper's - of all places - to rail against this horrible suppression of her freedom of speech may be the most excruciating example of hypocritical privilege one can imagine.
Last edited by Geezee on 27 Jul 2020, 15:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Steve Bell cancelled by the Guardian

Postby Geezee » 27 Jul 2020, 15:55

KeithPratt wrote: J K Rowling explicitly declared empathy for trans people in the letter she published.
.


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