BLM, Trump... and all that

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Minnie the Minx
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Re: BLM, Trump... and all that

Postby Minnie the Minx » 04 Jun 2020, 17:56

Flower wrote:The BLM and ALM aren't in the media much in Canada..


Must have been your day off from ‘only selectively’ looking through Canadian media when you posted this humdinger!

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=147169

To be honest, I couldn’t give a toss what you believe. Genuinely. But these explanations you are giving are disingenuous - at best.
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Flower wrote:I just did a google search.

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Re: BLM, Trump... and all that

Postby The Modernist » 04 Jun 2020, 18:10

Why are they disingenuous?

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Re: BLM, Trump... and all that

Postby Minnie the Minx » 04 Jun 2020, 18:37

The Modernist wrote:Why are they disingenuous?


Hmm. Why are YOU being disingenuous?

Do you want to borrow my spoon?
You come at the Queen, you best not miss.

Dr Markus wrote:
Someone in your line of work usually as their own man cave aka the shed we're they can potter around fixing stuff or something don't they?


Flower wrote:I just did a google search.

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Re: BLM, Trump... and all that

Postby toomanyhatz » 04 Jun 2020, 18:42

Racist: a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

Flower - nobody here is saying you are a racist. I am completely confident that you believe in your heart that no race is superior to another. You can quit trying to convince us.

The fact that every single post you've made is about how YOU feel and how we're misunderstanding YOU is the issue. As long as that remains the topic of conversation, then it becomes a thread about what Flower thinks and not a thread about BLM.

Everybody here has tried, in various ways, to suggest that maybe your perspective being acknowledged is not the important part of the discussion here about black lives mattering.

If you want to discuss black lives - the subject of the thread - let's discuss. If you want to make it about how you feel about racism in general or other races or what you have or haven't done to attempt to understand, then you're right - there's no point in going further.
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The Modernist
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Re: BLM, Trump... and all that

Postby The Modernist » 04 Jun 2020, 18:45

I don't follow...
I don't see any insincerity in what Flower posted. But I think she has a naive understanding of some aspects of this issue.

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Re: BLM, Trump... and all that

Postby Jimbo » 04 Jun 2020, 18:49

virtue signalling
noun: the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.

:roll:

We got us a whole lot of moral correctness here. Maybe you mean well but you come off as narrow-minded busy bodies.
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Re: BLM, Trump... and all that

Postby The Modernist » 04 Jun 2020, 19:03

Attention seeking
noun: the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to troll others and draw attention through deliberately provocative or controversial opinions on a particular issue for their own egotistical gratification.

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Re: BLM, Trump... and all that

Postby kath » 04 Jun 2020, 19:28

Jimbo wrote:virtue signalling
noun: the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.

:roll:

We got us a whole lot of moral correctness here. Maybe you mean well but you come off as narrow-minded busy bodies.


well, sure. i was just virtue signalling when i got thrown around by cops or when i spent the night in central lockup. it alllllll was worth it so i could come in on a message board and try to "look" good instead of actually giving a shit.

or maybe... just maybe... the people who bitch about virtue signalling are themselves just giving a stupid, facile write-off of whatever issyew at hand they couldn't really give one crap about.

i mean, here you are, crapping on posts that folk clearly took time to try to express in a non-snarky manner. but tomorrow you'll be swearin up and down in another thread that yer tryin to save us all from world war III. that's not virtue signalling, though, right, jimbo? becuz yer the one doing it, and what you think is the only thing that really matters.

stupid, facile write-offs are exactly how the ALM crowd operates (and i am not including flower in this. i accept what she said when she apologized for not realizing that the slogan "all lives matter", in america anyway, is code for fucque you, BLM.)

it's the kind of write-off a guy might make if he came into a thread about battered women and said, "women aren't the only ones abused."

or if a christian came into a thread about the horrific rise of anti-semitism under trump and said, "jews aren't the only ones persecuted."

those statements are technically true. but in context? they reek. they are write-offs, meant to deflect and dismiss, to have the effect of letting a targeted group get lost in the fallacious wash, their concerns erased. those comments are indeed saying fucque you.

if you actually cared about anyone understanding yer point of view, you wouldn't act like such a raging asshole about anyone else's opinion.

i wonder, if by yer definition, you are the most blatant virtue-signaller of all.

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Re: BLM, Trump... and all that

Postby Flower » 04 Jun 2020, 19:31

Minnie the Minx wrote:
Flower wrote:The BLM and ALM aren't in the media much in Canada..


Must have been your day off from ‘only selectively’ looking through Canadian media when you posted this humdinger!

http://www.bcb-board.co.uk/phpBB2/viewt ... 7&t=147169

To be honest, I couldn’t give a toss what you believe. Genuinely. But these explanations you are giving are disingenuous - at best.


FYI ~ I saw a thread on Preludin and that's why I'm aware of the Amy Cooper situation. :lol:
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Re: BLM, Trump... and all that

Postby Flower » 04 Jun 2020, 19:37

toomanyhatz wrote:Racist: a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

Flower - nobody here is saying you are a racist. I am completely confident that you believe in your heart that no race is superior to another. You can quit trying to convince us.

The fact that every single post you've made is about how YOU feel and how we're misunderstanding YOU is the issue. As long as that remains the topic of conversation, then it becomes a thread about what Flower thinks and not a thread about BLM.

Everybody here has tried, in various ways, to suggest that maybe your perspective being acknowledged is not the important part of the discussion here about black lives mattering.

If you want to discuss black lives - the subject of the thread - let's discuss. If you want to make it about how you feel about racism in general or other races or what you have or haven't done to attempt to understand, then you're right - there's no point in going further.



The purpose of clarifying is to arrive at a clear, accurate, and complete understanding of the speaker's words. Confirming is the skill by which listeners use a closed probe to test if they truly understand the speaker's logical and emotional content. Confirming is the hand that fits in the glove of clarification. That is what went circular. It was never about me but I'm playing to many players and failed. I just want to move on and out of this thread.
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Re: BLM, Trump... and all that

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 04 Jun 2020, 20:16

Flower,

I am through trying to cut through your strange defensiveness. Listen to what hatz is saying if you won’t listen to me.

Or just keep making everything about yourself and spend your life mystified about why this dynamic keeps repeating itself whenever you gift the world with your opinions.

I honestly don’t care. You don’t seem like a bad person, or even an unintelligent person - just a narrow one. You don’t have to fight to remain narrow, but it appears that you think you do. That’s your frustration. Have at it.
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Re: BLM, Trump... and all that

Postby Jimbo » 05 Jun 2020, 01:24

kath wrote:
i wonder, if by yer definition, you are the most blatant virtue-signaller of all.


Could be, Kath. I do have a big mouth. But y'all leave so much unsaid, unexplored, in-curiously ignored it's like a vacuum that needs to be filled with truth, factual information and criticism. By getting hung up on Flower's comment you somehow miss the big picture for which this thread is asking for comment. I am, as is my wont, exploring the conspiratorial angles of the demonstration and am wondering (prompted by an article in Off-Guardian) if this isn't another color revolution ala Ukraine's Maidan crafted to overthrow Trump. https://off-guardian.org/2020/06/02/are ... ed-states/
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Re: BLM, Trump... and all that

Postby kath » 05 Jun 2020, 02:00

Jimbo wrote:
kath wrote:
i wonder, if by yer definition, you are the most blatant virtue-signaller of all.


Could be, Kath. I do have a big mouth. But y'all leave so much unsaid, unexplored, in-curiously ignored it's like a vacuum that needs to be filled with truth, factual information and criticism. By getting hung up on Flower's comment you somehow miss the big picture for which this thread is asking for comment. I am, as is my wont, exploring the conspiratorial angles of the demonstration and am wondering (prompted by an article in Off-Guardian) if this isn't another color revolution ala Ukraine's Maidan crafted to overthrow Trump. https://off-guardian.org/2020/06/02/are ... ed-states/


okayyyy, whateverrr.

can i ask yew one question? and i honestly mean this most sincerely.

... is there some point when the goofy, funny jimbo i met when i first joined this board will return?

ya know, the one who made jokes and offered to send me a sons of champlain cd riiiight after i registered (it was all my fault i turned ya down... i didn't know the protocol on this board of just sending music to people, and i got confused)?

you DEW realize that over life's experiences, with age, we're sposed to get wisdom that involves gettin *less* hardcore, insulated, isolated... the natural progression should be to empathize and care more when confronted with the suffering humanity faces and the losses that hit us ALL hard. including our own impending mortality.

c'monnn. yeah, sure, as the heart grows older, it will come to such sights colder, by and by, nor spare a sigh though worlds of wanwood fucquin leafmeal lie... but holy fucquin shit, man. when did you become an inflexible fox-news mouthpiece for bullshit whilst callin everyone who disagrees with you (which would be, frankly, everyone) stupid mindless sheep?

acting like a superior-to-everyone, batty fucquenaught won't save you from death. it won't save anyone else, either, simply becuz you have ZERO ability or interest anymore in winnin over converts.

yeahyeah, you can call this post whatever ya want, but i swear, i remember when you were at least half-n-half, funny/goofy/let'sjam jimbo and batshit jimbo. i've fucquin lost a kid and the love of my life, and i don't act like half the shutoff asswad you are these days.

okay, i said it. but i say it with one impulse: i want the sons of champlain jimbo back. even just a fraction.

if that aint happenin, you know where you can stick yer batshit fucquin links.

just a few thoughts.

love and codas,
me

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Re: BLM, Trump... and all that

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 05 Jun 2020, 04:18

****standing ovation****

:D :) ;) :( :o :shock: :? 8-) :lol: :x :roll: :cry: :twisted: :| :| :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :geek: :ugeek: :evil: :D :) ;) :( :o :shock: :? 8-) :lol: :x :roll: :cry: :twisted: :| :| :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :geek: :ugeek: :evil: :D :) ;) :( :o :shock: :? 8-) :lol: :x :roll: :cry: :twisted: :| :| :D :) ;) :( :o :shock: :? 8-) :lol: :x :roll: :cry: :twisted: :| :| :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :geek: :ugeek: :evil: :D :) ;) :( :o :shock: :? 8-) :lol: :x :roll: :cry: :twisted: :| :| :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :geek: :ugeek: :evil: :D :) ;) :( :o :shock: :? 8-) :lol: :x :roll: :cry: :twisted: :| :|
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Re: BLM, Trump... and all that

Postby Deebank » 05 Jun 2020, 08:47

One thing that strikes me about civil unrest or demos that turn ugly, in my experience - which I grant you is a long way away in both space and time from the current events - the police are often shipped-in and motivated to provoke and attack. This seems especially the case when you have a president giving them carte blanche and personally ordering violent intervention against a peaceful demo for his own pathetic self-serving reasons. What message does this send out? They used to ship in Thames Valley Police en masse - Thatcher's storm troopers up for a nice bit of overtime plus a chance to kick students' heads in - back in my day.

Of course there is usually (not always though) a small minority on the demonstrators' side who are up for aggro - this minority tends to swell once the authorities act with brutality. I remember my incredulity seeing on the evening news - if the day's events were mentioned at all - that the 'message' was lost in reports of violent angry anarchist demonstrators. I reckon you could probably count on two hands the number of real anarchists at any demo.

My gut feeling about the current US situation is that the bigger political picture is not significantly changed by any of this in the short term. For black lives to attain some sort of parity in the US the first objective should be to get rid of the racist in chief. While Trump is in charge he's not going to alienate his core support by any 'appeasement' of the demonstrators - and besides the guy is a fucking racist just like old man Trump was before him. The narrative will remain that there is no problem with institutional racism and that it's 'a few rotten apples'. While it really desperately needs root and branch reform.
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Re: BLM, Trump... and all that

Postby Jimbo » 05 Jun 2020, 09:05

Deebank wrote: For black lives to attain some sort of parity in the US the first objective should be to get rid of the racist in chief. While Trump is in charge he's not going to alienate his core support by any 'appeasement' of the demonstrators - and besides the guy is a fucking racist just like old man Trump was before him. The narrative will remain that there is no problem with institutional racism and that it's 'a few rotten apples'. While it really desperately needs root and branch reform.


Lest you forget Furgeson Missouri August 10, 2014. Obama was President.

MLK assassination - LBJ

Point being, yes, Trump is an asshole but blaming him for everything will get you nowhere.
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Re: BLM, Trump... and all that

Postby Rorschach » 05 Jun 2020, 09:20

kath wrote:
okayyyy, whateverrr.

can i ask yew one question? and i honestly mean this most sincerely.

... is there some point when the goofy, funny jimbo i met when i first joined this board will return?

ya know, the one who made jokes and offered to send me a sons of champlain cd riiiight after i registered (it was all my fault i turned ya down... i didn't know the protocol on this board of just sending music to people, and i got confused)?

you DEW realize that over life's experiences, with age, we're sposed to get wisdom that involves gettin *less* hardcore, insulated, isolated... the natural progression should be to empathize and care more when confronted with the suffering humanity faces and the losses that hit us ALL hard. including our own impending mortality.

c'monnn. yeah, sure, as the heart grows older, it will come to such sights colder, by and by, nor spare a sigh though worlds of wanwood fucquin leafmeal lie... but holy fucquin shit, man. when did you become an inflexible fox-news mouthpiece for bullshit whilst callin everyone who disagrees with you (which would be, frankly, everyone) stupid mindless sheep?

acting like a superior-to-everyone, batty fucquenaught won't save you from death. it won't save anyone else, either, simply becuz you have ZERO ability or interest anymore in winnin over converts.

yeahyeah, you can call this post whatever ya want, but i swear, i remember when you were at least half-n-half, funny/goofy/let'sjam jimbo and batshit jimbo. i've fucquin lost a kid and the love of my life, and i don't act like half the shutoff asswad you are these days.

okay, i said it. but i say it with one impulse: i want the sons of champlain jimbo back. even just a fraction.

if that aint happenin, you know where you can stick yer batshit fucquin links.

just a few thoughts.

love and codas,
me


Splendid stuff, kath. I too remember when Jimbo was worth something.

These days he puts me in mind of Don Quijote:

"Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind."

These days Jimbo devotes all his energy to tilting at windmills.
Bugger off.

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Re: BLM, Trump... and all that

Postby Deebank » 05 Jun 2020, 09:57

Jimbo wrote:
Deebank wrote: For black lives to attain some sort of parity in the US the first objective should be to get rid of the racist in chief. While Trump is in charge he's not going to alienate his core support by any 'appeasement' of the demonstrators - and besides the guy is a fucking racist just like old man Trump was before him. The narrative will remain that there is no problem with institutional racism and that it's 'a few rotten apples'. While it really desperately needs root and branch reform.


Lest you forget Furgeson Missouri August 10, 2014. Obama was President.

MLK assassination - LBJ

Point being, yes, Trump is an asshole but blaming him for everything will get you nowhere.


I don't think anyone has said that Trump is responsible for the situation - it goes back 250 years or so to when Britannia ruled the waves and shipped slaves to the New World from West Africa - but it is undeniable that he is doing nothing to address the issue and in fact making it worse because that stance plays to his base (he thinks).
I've been talking about writing a book - 25 years of TEFL - for a few years now. I've got it in me.

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Re: BLM, Trump... and all that

Postby Jimbo » 05 Jun 2020, 10:00



What is called for is leadership but where are our leaders? While Trump is being Trump where is Pelosi, Shumer, Bernie, Tulsi, Hillary, Obama, Michelle Obama, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton. Feel free to add whomever else you think is MIA.

https://off-guardian.org/2020/06/04/the ... than-ever/
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Re: BLM, Trump... and all that

Postby Flower » 05 Jun 2020, 10:57

Deebank wrote:One thing that strikes me about civil unrest or demos that turn ugly, in my experience - which I grant you is a long way away in both space and time from the current events - the police are often shipped-in and motivated to provoke and attack. This seems especially the case when you have a president giving them carte blanche and personally ordering violent intervention against a peaceful demo for his own pathetic self-serving reasons. What message does this send out? They used to ship in Thames Valley Police en masse - Thatcher's storm troopers up for a nice bit of overtime plus a chance to kick students' heads in - back in my day.

Of course there is usually (not always though) a small minority on the demonstrators' side who are up for aggro - this minority tends to swell once the authorities act with brutality. I remember my incredulity seeing on the evening news - if the day's events were mentioned at all - that the 'message' was lost in reports of violent angry anarchist demonstrators. I reckon you could probably count on two hands the number of real anarchists at any demo.

My gut feeling about the current US situation is that the bigger political picture is not significantly changed by any of this in the short term. For black lives to attain some sort of parity in the US the first objective should be to get rid of the racist in chief. While Trump is in charge he's not going to alienate his core support by any 'appeasement' of the demonstrators - and besides the guy is a fucking racist just like old man Trump was before him. The narrative will remain that there is no problem with institutional racism and that it's 'a few rotten apples'. While it really desperately needs root and branch reform.


i totally agree ..
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