Coming soon to a face near you - the boot of Xi's Chinazi party

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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KeithPratt
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Re: RIP Hong Kong 1842 - 2020

Postby KeithPratt » 29 May 2020, 12:44

What are you talking about?

Completely different scenario. The Chinese who lived in Hong Kong did exceptionally well out of British rule. The economic boom that was set in place by the 1950s transformed the city and has made it one of the wealthiest places in the world. The top rate of Tax in Hong Kong is 17%. It's 2% for people earning under 40K HK, and around 10% I think for the average worker. The average salary per month is around $2400 US.

I fail to see the analogy between the subjugation of Native Americans, whose culture was systematically destroyed by white settlement and enforced moves to reservations where they were forced to assimilate into the American way of life, to a trading port where people were encouraged to move to.

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Re: RIP Hong Kong 1842 - 2020

Postby Diamond Dog » 29 May 2020, 13:30

Nor do I. I was trying to see if your vision of acceptable colonialism/imperialism stretches that far.
I have put the ignorant, inflammatory bore on ignore.

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Re: RIP Hong Kong 1842 - 2020

Postby KeithPratt » 29 May 2020, 13:53

Colonialism and Imperialism should always be studied on a case by case basis, rather than saying it was either "good" or "bad". The evidence is exceptionally complex and not suited to polarised points of view, most of which are to sell books.

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Re: RIP Hong Kong 1842 - 2020

Postby Sam Stone » 29 May 2020, 14:09

KeithPratt wrote:What are you talking about?

Completely different scenario. The Chinese who lived in Hong Kong did exceptionally well out of British rule. The economic boom that was set in place by the 1950s transformed the city and has made it one of the wealthiest places in the world. The top rate of Tax in Hong Kong is 17%. It's 2% for people earning under 40K HK, and around 10% I think for the average worker. The average salary per month is around $2400 US.

I fail to see the analogy between the subjugation of Native Americans, whose culture was systematically destroyed by white settlement and enforced moves to reservations where they were forced to assimilate into the American way of life, to a trading port where people were encouraged to move to.



The extraordinary thing about Hong Kong is that Britain could never have made a go of the place without the help of the Chinese who lived there.

This is especially true of the large numbers of hard-nosed entrepreneurs like YK Pao and Run Run Shaw - many of whom fled the Mainland after Mao's Long March. Their "can do" spirit ultimately really did transform the city and is still evident to this day.

Of all the places I've been lucky enough to live and work - and believe me I've lived and worked in quite a few - Hong Kong in the 80s and 90s remains my favourite.

It breaks my heart to see what the Chinese Communist Party are now doing - and will carry on doing - if not stopped.

It's good to see that Raab was on TV last night and promising that the UK would be happy to have the 3,500,000 Hongkongers with BNO passports come to live and work in the UK.

Let's hope that he is as good as his word.


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Re: RIP Hong Kong 1842 - 2020

Postby mentalist (slight return) » 29 May 2020, 15:07

My brother's been in HK for about 20 years. He's coming back in a year or so after his youngest completes High School. Basically it's got to the stage where a lot of local folk are figuring out how they'd be able to emigrate. A lot of younger people can't really afford to live there, the idea of buying an apartment, say, is a pipe dream. China aren't overly fussed if HK loses its status as a financial hub, as places like Shanghai and Shenzhen are there, and of course the party is more important than anything else.
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Re: RIP Hong Kong 1842 - 2020

Postby fange » 29 May 2020, 23:29

Jimbo wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote:Please explain to us, Jimbo, using *your* words rather than those of your "sources," exactly what this "rub" is of which you speak?


The US is sponsoring and encouraging the protests in HK ala Maidan in Ukraine. The Chinese government under the Basic Law I cited has a right to clamp down on these outside agitators.

Jimbo, the hundreds of local Chinese people i've met and befriended over my 12+ years in HK would say "what outside agitators?" For them this is a local issue, no matter what other elements (and of course there certainly are) support their cause from outside, or even attempting to from inside. My good friends are seeing the HK they grew up with and love taken from them, clearly and without redress. And they have no say in it from their own government. The line Beijing is taking about only outside agitators causing this is politically motivated dehumanisation, plain and simple.
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Re: RIP Hong Kong 1842 - 2020

Postby Jimbo » 30 May 2020, 03:25

fange wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote:Please explain to us, Jimbo, using *your* words rather than those of your "sources," exactly what this "rub" is of which you speak?


The US is sponsoring and encouraging the protests in HK ala Maidan in Ukraine. The Chinese government under the Basic Law I cited has a right to clamp down on these outside agitators.


Jimbo, the hundreds of local Chinese people i've met and befriended over my 12+ years in HK would say "what outside agitators?" For them this is a local issue, no matter what other elements (and of course there certainly are) support their cause from outside, or even attempting to from inside. My good friends are seeing the HK they grew up with and love taken from them, clearly and without redress. And they have no say in it from their own government. The line Beijing is taking about only outside agitators causing this is politically motivated dehumanisation, plain and simple.


"Would say"? I think your friends would say that at the very least they've heard of CIA/US involvement in the HK demonstration/riots. Not that the HKers don't have beefs but the US and its poodles are in a cold war with China right now. Switch on any MSM channel, left or right and it's China this and China that. Hardly hear "Russia" or "Putin" these days. The US is exploiting your friends' misery to score points against China.

Here's HK publisher Jimmy Lai with John Bolton

Image


Here are protest leaders including Joshua Wong meeting with State Department staff.

Image

Here is protest leader Joshua Wong in US Congress

Image


Here are US backed Ukrainian neo-Nazis in HK

Image

Here's Wong with Pelosi.

Image

https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=017930374 ... j1000704j9
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Re: RIP Hong Kong 1842 - 2020

Postby toomanyhatz » 30 May 2020, 04:24

Hmm...people who've actually lived there vs. Jimbo's "sources."

Tough call. Again.
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Re: RIP Hong Kong 1842 - 2020

Postby fange » 30 May 2020, 04:26

Jimbo, of course they have heard and seen this stuff, as everyone has. And of course there are some overly violent and dumb HK protestors, who sometimes spoil things for the large majority of peaceful protestors; these things happen in every social movement ever. But the fact is, if the HK situation is going to get better, there must be help from outside figures and governments to shine a light on what is happening, because one of the most unique, successful and peaceful cities on the planet is being eroded from the inside out by its own government on purpose.
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Re: RIP Hong Kong 1842 - 2020

Postby Jimbo » 30 May 2020, 04:58

fange wrote: if the HK situation is going to get better, there must be help from outside figures and governments to shine a light on what is happening, because one of the most unique, successful and peaceful cities on the planet is being eroded from the inside out by its own government on purpose.


Point taken but IMO "surrendering" to Beijing might not be so bad.

I have been bullish on China for a long time. Any country that could do what they have done in such a short time deserves respect. I don't see the Chinese government as inherently bad or evil. I do see the US government that way.
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Re: RIP Hong Kong 1842 - 2020

Postby mentalist (slight return) » 30 May 2020, 06:17

Funny thing is, under the vague new security laws, what the Manchurian candidate is saying here, if it were about China instead of the US, could land him in jail for treason or subversion, to be determined by the NPC
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Re: RIP Hong Kong 1842 - 2020

Postby Jimbo » 30 May 2020, 06:29

mentalist (slight return) wrote:Funny thing is, under the vague new security laws, what the Manchurian candidate is saying here, if it were about China instead of the US, could land him in jail for treason or subversion, to be determined by the NPC


Julian Assange.
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Re: RIP Hong Kong 1842 - 2020

Postby mentalist (slight return) » 30 May 2020, 06:38

At least Assange can attempt to fight the laws that I agree have unjustly landed him in jail, as cretinous an individual that he is. The scope of these new laws are so vague, that things like satire, holding up a pro HK independence banner, abusing the national anthem (whatever that means) could all land one in jail.
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Re: RIP Hong Kong 1842 - 2020

Postby Jimbo » 30 May 2020, 06:45

mentalist (slight return) wrote:At least Assange can attempt to fight the laws that I agree have unjustly landed him in jail, as cretinous an individual that he is. The scope of these new laws are so vague, that things like satire, holding up a pro HK independence banner, abusing the national anthem (whatever that means) could all land one in jail.


I've seen some slimy retorts here but this maybe the worst -- except for most of the fetid crap Sam Stone (Feury) posts.

At least admit that there is corruption in the Chinese and Western governments. Instead you come off like Archie Bunker railing against those pinko chinkos.
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Re: RIP Hong Kong 1842 - 2020

Postby mentalist (slight return) » 30 May 2020, 06:55

I am a pinko basically. Raging inequality is a great danger to the world from my perspective. I'm not even that anti-China. But this authoritarian, party at all costs stuff should be seen for what it is.
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Re: RIP Hong Kong 1842 - 2020

Postby Sam Stone » 30 May 2020, 09:41

On the previous page, I asked you for proof that the UK is goading China Into war.

In your desperate attempt to row back to a Cold rather than a military war, all you can come up with
is a bunch of photos that prove even less than the normal nonsense you cut, paste and post here.


Pick of the bunch is this one of a person of indeterminate ethnicity wearing a facemark (still illegal in HK, btw)
a T-shirt saying "My folks went to Ukraine and all I got was this lousy T-shirt"


Jimbo wrote:
Here are US backed Ukrainian neo-Nazis in HK

Image



Pathetic - even for someone with your limited intelligence and less than stringent standards
Last edited by Sam Stone on 30 May 2020, 09:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RIP Hong Kong 1842 - 2020

Postby Geezee » 30 May 2020, 09:41

Jimbo wrote:
Geezee wrote:The Hong Kong protests make a huge amount of sense, given that their fundamental rights are being withdrawn. And no, China does not have a very good health care system (and certainly not a universal one) so god knows why you would bring it up. Probably because you have no clue what you are talking about as usual and make it up as you go along.


Sorry, Hatz, but I need my sources.

Is medical care free in China?
China does have free public healthcare which is under the country's social insurance plan. The healthcare system provides basic coverage for the majority of the native population and, in most cases, expats as well.Apr 15, 2020
Google search


It is not a universal healthcare system (not even close) and is stuck in a heavily privatised, TCM-based system. Look at its national medicines list! You don't have 90% of the incredible treatments against HIV/AIDS, Hep C or cancer on there. It is a fairly modern country with an emerging market healthcare model. This is not a criticism of China per se - this is the route it chose to go (although it was always curious that a communist country would completely forego any meaningful investment in a healthcare system) but to somehow hihglight it as a benefit of joining the broader Chinese cause is extremely ignorant. (although Hong Kong's healthcare system itself is only marginally better than China's).
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Re: RIP Hong Kong 1842 - 2020

Postby Sam Stone » 30 May 2020, 09:47

Jimbo wrote:
fange wrote:

if the HK situation is going to get better, there must be help from outside figures and governments to shine a light on what is happening, because one of the most unique, successful and peaceful cities on the planet is being eroded from the inside out by its own government on purpose.



Point taken but IMO "surrendering" to Beijing might not be so bad.

I have been bullish on China for a long time. Any country that could do what they have done in such a short time deserves respect. I don't see the Chinese government as inherently bad or evil. I do see the US government that way.




People were saying much the same about Hitler in the 1930s.

Just as no one with any sense listened to the cowardly appeasers then (thank god),
no one here has any time to indulge yourself and your spittle-flecked ravings
from the back of the bus now.

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Re: RIP Hong Kong 1842 - 2020

Postby Sam Stone » 30 May 2020, 09:54

Jimbo wrote:
mentalist (slight return) wrote:
At least Assange can attempt to fight the laws that I agree have unjustly landed him in jail, as cretinous an individual that he is. The scope of these new laws are so vague, that things like satire, holding up a pro HK independence banner, abusing the national anthem (whatever that means) could all land one in jail.



I've seen some slimy retorts here but this maybe the worst -- except for most of the fetid crap Sam Stone (Feury) posts.

At least admit that there is corruption in the Chinese and Western governments. Instead you come off like Archie Bunker railing against those pinko chinkos.



Far from being a "slimy retort", Mentalist doesn't go far enough in detailing what's at stake for the demonstrators.

The laws Xi and his felllow gangsters will impose on Hong Kong in 98 days time are so open-ended the Chinese authorities
could potentially grab you off the street, pack you off to China and execute you for treason.

The crime for which might cost you your liberty and maybe even your life? Booing the Chinese national anthem at a "soccerball" match.

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Re: RIP Hong Kong 1842 - 2020

Postby Sam Stone » 30 May 2020, 09:59

Geezee wrote:


Hong Kong's healthcare system itself is only marginally better than China's).




Sorry, but that's just nonsense.

About 20 years ago, I broke my right ankle - an injury that took four hours in the OT, a metal plate with 13 screws, two weeks in hospital and three months of 3 x weekly physio sessions to heal.

The standard of care I received in the public hospital was excellent and the only thing I had to pay for were the physio sessions.
Last edited by Sam Stone on 30 May 2020, 10:37, edited 1 time in total.