US Influence On Global Politics - REALLY On The Wane?

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Rorschach
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Re: US Influence On Global Politics - REALLY On The Wane?

Postby Rorschach » 27 Apr 2020, 10:08

LMG wrote:Uh oh.

Rorschach wrote:
I want to be able to post here every day and not have to wade through prog rock 'music' references every time!



whistles 'there may be trouble ahead' part of 'Let's Face The Music And Dance'


Right! That's it. I'm calling for everyone to put prog on ignore.

Who's with me boys!?
Bugger off.

Sam Stone
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Re: US Influence On Global Politics - REALLY On The Wane?

Postby Sam Stone » 27 Apr 2020, 10:19

C wrote:
Matt Wilson wrote:Magna Carta


Their third is my favourite

Image







.


DD and his mates would have you believe that this is some "deadly" new variant of prog that is somehow pissing off sheeple in the hundreds of thousands .

My sources assure me that it's the usual "just prog" that's been boring discerning music fans since the discovery of dry ice.

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Re: US Influence On Global Politics - REALLY On The Wane?

Postby Sam Stone » 27 Apr 2020, 10:33

A Singaoporean histiorian called Kishore Mahbubani is winning strong reviews for his just published book, Has China Won?

Not sure if can post the entire review here, but here’s an excerpt from Max Hastings' glowing write up in yesterday's Sunset Times (PM me if you're like to read the whole piece).


In 1945 the United States was the planet’s dominant force, with half its entire GDP: it became the only leading participant of the Second World War to show a profit. Half a century later it was also victor of the Cold War, still indisputably numero uno. The American genius — and such a thing assuredly exists — was arming its brightest and best to tower over the new technologies that would dominate the 21st century.

Today, America is in a crisis caused by forces that may be intensified by the coronavirus, but preceded it. Kishore Mahbubani, a Singaporean academic and former diplomat who has served as president of the UN Security Council, here delivers a blistering analysis of its fall from grace.
No US politician, he writes, dares to tell their own people the harsh truth, that its global economic primacy is coming to an end for reasons that have little to do with “unfair” foreign competition. In 1990 it still had 20.6% of the world’s GDP, while China had only 3.86%; in 2018 America had 15%, China 18.6%.

America “taught the world that free trade was good”, but now embraces protectionism. Since 9/11 it has squandered nearly $5tn on fighting unnecessary and unsuccessful wars in a region, the Middle East, where it has no rational interest. Its insistence that liberal democracy represents the rightful path for all societies is no longer credible, if it ever was. Whereas America had many brilliant public servants during the Cold War, today Chinese representatives at any international gathering are likely to be smarter, as US diplomacy has been relegated to sub-prime status.




If anyone wants to see how stealthily Xi and the rest of the cunts in charge of the Chinese communist party are trying to achieve their aim of being the world's dominant force by 2049 should check out the three-part Chiina: A New World Order series the BBC ran last summer - would imagine it's still on iPlayer.
Last edited by Sam Stone on 28 Apr 2020, 17:29, edited 1 time in total.

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KeithPratt
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Re: US Influence On Global Politics - REALLY On The Wane?

Postby KeithPratt » 28 Apr 2020, 13:48

I'm still hesitant to ascribe the sort of domination that people are predicting with China, in that it will replace the US.

That's the problem I feel - that people think it's a zero-sum game situation.

If the Chinese come up with some sort of new paradigm, akin to how the US created and dominated western consumer culture (and by default, inevitably the rest of the world), then maybe. I don't see that though. The roots of the internet are anglophone and the most powerful and innovative companies around today are all Western. The Chinese can copy what the West does, but whether it can be a force "for good" is another matter. Are the Chinese as invested culturally in narratives such as climate change and environmental issues? I don't think they are.

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Re: US Influence On Global Politics - REALLY On The Wane?

Postby Sam Stone » 28 Apr 2020, 15:34

KeithPratt wrote:I'm still hesitant to ascribe the sort of domination that people are predicting with China, in that it will replace the US.

That's the problem I feel - that people think it's a zero-sum game situation.

If the Chinese come up with some sort of new paradigm, akin to how the US created and dominated western consumer culture (and by default, inevitably the rest of the world), then maybe. I don't see that though. The roots of the internet are anglophone and the most powerful and innovative companies around today are all Western. The Chinese can copy what the West does, but whether it can be a force "for good" is another matter. Are the Chinese as invested culturally in narratives such as climate change and environmental issues? I don't think they are.



The Chinese will do what they've been doing these last thirty years which is to first schmooze and buy stuff up.

If you aren't interested in selling your ideas you get fucked over by having those ideas copied - who'd heard of now ubiquitous Tik Tok this time last year?.

Or if you're a country or race of people that values its cultural or political independence, you get steamrollered and subjugated.

And as their hawkish attitude to Hong Kong and Taiwan show, they aren't interested in existing side by side with anyone.

Just look at what they did in Sri Lanka - loaned the government there big bucks to build a huge port. When demand failed to generate sufficient revenues to allow Sri Lanka to pay them back they took out a 99-year lease on the facilities. They now own a huge strategic foothold and are hell-bent on doing something similar in Papua New Guinea.

The way the fuckers have brazenly ignored internationally binding treaties regarding Hong Kong while the UK government has stood idly by and let them do so is truly scary. But it's not nearly as scary as the viciousness with which they callously treat their Eighur Muslim countrymen.

Then there's the way they're militarizing lagoons in the South China Sea as they ready themselves to claim vast tracts of disputed islands such as the Spratlys.

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The Prof
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Re: US Influence On Global Politics - REALLY On The Wane?

Postby The Prof » 28 Apr 2020, 16:20

Sam Stone wrote:A Singaoporean histiorian called Kishore Mahbubani is winning strong reviews for his just published book, [b]Has China WoN?



Whilst Pilger made as film a few years ago called, "The Coming War on China". You can't win without a war, can you?

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Robert
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Re: US Influence On Global Politics - REALLY On The Wane?

Postby Robert » 28 Apr 2020, 22:19

LMG wrote:
Flower wrote:Another article that agrees on this point.

https://theconversation.com/a-new-world ... d-it-98362

A new world is dawning, and the US will no longer lead it


A power shift among the nations of the world began at the end of the Cold War and has been accelerating this century.


There is a problem with this very long term view - which is that over time, many prophecies turn out to be the case. It is like the economist who predicts 'an eventual downturn in the economy' - of course, eventually he or she will be correct.

But as Keynes said 'In the long term we are all dead'.

I was taught in 1985 in International Relations classes that US power and influence was in an inevitable decline. Now I have to ask 'compared to when?' To the postwar years 1945-54? Well, yes. Much of the world had been decimated by war, the US was relatively untouched by the destruction, and had played a key role in finishing that war. So of course it would enjoy unparalleled influence.

So do you look further back? Past the Depression, obviously - but if you go back too far, the US does not have much of the economic and military power it has used to achieve superpower status.

I am just wondering if this 'golden age of US influence' which hassupposedly been in decline since I started studying the subject in 1980 is a myth.


I think the dominance of the US ispretty undeniable in the 20th century. But that’s speaking from a ‘western perspective’

Very shortly ( just a few weeks) after 9/11 I wastravelling in India. And, of course, the event would come up in conversations.

What really stunned me was that the average comment was along the lines of ‘ The US had it coming for a long time’

So Eurocentrically I’d say yes, the US owned the 20th century but I doubt it the majority of the world’s population would agree

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Re: US Influence On Global Politics - REALLY On The Wane?

Postby LMG » 01 Jun 2020, 20:39

I wonder if the current rioting and civil unrest is the sort of tragedy that will be used as signposts to future generations of the long road to US decline?
'You're sort of the Hillary Clinton of the Black Cat Bone Prog Synchronised Listen Artists Under Consideration - everyone knows who you are, but you just can't seem to get where you need to be.'

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Re: US Influence On Global Politics - REALLY On The Wane?

Postby KeithPratt » 01 Jun 2020, 21:45

They said that in 1968 in the middle of a cold war against a country with a significant nuclear threat.

15 years later or so, after a significant global economic downturn, the USA was in a stronger position than ever before.

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Re: US Influence On Global Politics - REALLY On The Wane?

Postby Hightea » 02 Jun 2020, 04:53

LMG wrote:You can find any number of articles on American influence as a superpower declining in the 21st century. Here's a couple:

https://apnews.com/d8a59e876979f38bbd852a701f495ca1


______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Please discuss. Nicely.

2018 Pew Poll
Another of the survey’s findings: People in nearly every country said they preferred a world order led by the United States.

I'm thinking the last few years of Trump are even changing this thought?

I've heard this argument for years and always agree but still see plenty of factors before the US isn't a superpower.
how much of this 2018 charts has changed under Trump?
Image

Image


https://now.tufts.edu/articles/why-united-states-only-superpower

"China is the only country that comes close, and America still has three times China’s wealth and five times its military capabilities. "

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Re: US Influence On Global Politics - REALLY On The Wane?

Postby Hightea » 02 Jun 2020, 04:54

dupe