Critically thinking about the corona virus

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
Six String
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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Six String » 08 Jun 2020, 00:20

toomanyhatz wrote:
Jimbo wrote:The lockdown made the epidemic worse.


Ooh, I think I might need someone to explain the science of this to me.


:lol: here we go!

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Jimbo
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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Jimbo » 08 Jun 2020, 02:51

Six String wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote:
Jimbo wrote:The lockdown made the epidemic worse.


Ooh, I think I might need someone to explain the science of this to me.


:lol: here we go!


Here you go.

THE Scottish Government will “continue to do everything we possibly can” to support hundreds of workers laid off at a Rolls-Royce factory in Renfrewshire, Nicola Sturgeon has said. ... Around 700 jobs are expected to be axed in Inchinnan as part of plans to shed 9000 staff globally. ... “News the workers at Rolls-Royce in Inchinnan will have got this morning is absolutely devastating and my thoughts are very much with them and their families today.” ... “The Scottish Government will continue to do everything we possibly can to get a more positive outcome to this.” https://www-tmp.thenational.scot/news/1 ... h-factory/
You don't have to be smart to see how fucked up this shit is. Jimmy Dore

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toomanyhatz
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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby toomanyhatz » 08 Jun 2020, 04:08

toomanyhatz wrote:
Jimbo wrote:The lockdown made the epidemic worse.


Ooh, I think I might need someone to explain the science of this to me.


Still waiting.
toomanyhatz wrote:
Jimbo wrote:Course Yahoo! News didn't tell you this.


Oh my god! Comedy gold!!!

https://news.yahoo.com/lancet-casts-dou ... 53194.html


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Jimbo
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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Jimbo » 08 Jun 2020, 05:02

Just a hunch that some of you may be hypochondriacs. Take the test and see!

http://www.4degreez.com/misc/hypochondria_test.html

Here is my result.

"Your Hypochondria Rating: Very Low
Your rating indicates that hypochondria is not even on your radar. Far from being a hypochondriac, you almost never worry about your health or suffer the anxiety that defines this disorder."
You don't have to be smart to see how fucked up this shit is. Jimmy Dore

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toomanyhatz
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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby toomanyhatz » 08 Jun 2020, 05:32

Relevant.

Response to factual basis for ridiculous claim? A Facebook test. So surprising!

Anyway, still waiting.
toomanyhatz wrote:
Jimbo wrote:Course Yahoo! News didn't tell you this.


Oh my god! Comedy gold!!!

https://news.yahoo.com/lancet-casts-dou ... 53194.html


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toomanyhatz
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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby toomanyhatz » 08 Jun 2020, 05:47

Anyway, to get back to thinking critically about the Coronavirus:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/u ... _315PM.pdf

Pay special attention to the part that says The President's Coronavirus Guidelines for America.

My favorite sentence is this:

In states with evidence of community transmission (which is, oddly enough, all of them), bars, restaurants, food courts, gyms (let's put particular emphasis on that one, shall we)...should be closed.

It says that on the White House website.

Have we heard President Virus utter a single one of these suggestions that he's taking credit for in public?
toomanyhatz wrote:
Jimbo wrote:Course Yahoo! News didn't tell you this.


Oh my god! Comedy gold!!!

https://news.yahoo.com/lancet-casts-dou ... 53194.html


1959 1963 1965 1966 1974 1977 1978 1981 1988 2017 2018 2021? 2022?

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Diamond Dog
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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Diamond Dog » 08 Jun 2020, 07:35

toomanyhatz wrote:
Jimbo wrote:The lockdown made the epidemic worse.


Ooh, I think I might need someone to explain the science of this to me.


He genuinely doesn't get that Sweden had a very light lockdown - and are suffering higher rates of fatalities than those countries that adopted a stricter regime. I see New Zealand (the country that introduced one of the severest lockdowns, very early) has just lifted all restrictions today because there are zero cases in the whole of the country - population, around 5 million I think.

Jimbo will be telling us the lockdown prolonged today's state of affairs, no doubt.
People go on too much about the privileged background of politicians but actually Matt Hancock had a very humble upbringing in an Italian workshop owned by a woodworker named Geppetto who turned him into a human boy.

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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Sam Stone » 08 Jun 2020, 09:09

Diamond Dog wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
The lockdown made the epidemic worse.



Ooh, I think I might need someone to explain the science of this to me.



He genuinely doesn't get that Sweden had a very light lockdown - and are suffering higher rates of fatalities than those countries that adopted a stricter regime.



Never mind the science (which J isn't interested in) and the horrific fatality rates ("fuck them and their families, what about my gym?"), it is now clear that despite their higher Covid-19 death rate, the Swedes are suffering the same economic shit storm as every other country that did impose stricter lockdowns.

From this morning's Journal.ie - red highlights added by me


Sweden didn't lock down during pandemic, but its economy still looks set to plunge


UNLIKE MOST COUNTRIES, Sweden never locked down during the coronavirus pandemic, largely keeping businesses operating, but the economy appears to be taking a hard hit nonetheless.

Under the Scandinavian country’s controversial approach to the virus, cafes, bars, restaurants and most businesses remained open, as did schools for under-16s, with people urged to follow social distancing and hygiene guidelines.

Whatever hope there may have been that this policy would soften the economic blow now seems dashed.

“As in most of the world, there will be a record decline for the Swedish economy in Q2,” SEB bank economist Olle Holmgren said.

Sweden’s top epidemiologist said last week that there was room for improvement in the country’s softer approach to curbing the spread of Covid-19.

But Anders Tegnell, the public face of Sweden’s virus response, defended the decision not to impose a strict lockdown.

“If we were to encounter the same disease with everything we know about it today, I think we would end up doing something in between what Sweden and the rest of the world has done,” Tegnell told Swedish Radio last Wednesday.

‘A long time’

A rebound was likely inthe latter part of the year, but “we expect it to take a long time before the situation normalises,” bank economist Olle Holmgren told AFP.

Swedish officials insist their strategy was always aimed at public health, and never specifically at saving the economy.

The idea was to make sure hospitals could keep pace with the outbreak and protect the elderly and at-risk groups.

Sweden has succeeded at the former, but admitted failure at the latter, with more than three-quarters of virus deaths occurring among nursing home residents and those receiving care at home.

“When we have decided what measures to take to stop the virus from spreading, we have not had any economic considerations. We have followed the advice of our [public health] experts on this issue,” Finance Minister, Magdalena Andersson, told reporters in late May.
Still, authorities acknowledge that keeping businesses open was also part of a broader public health consideration, as high unemployment and a weak economy typically lead to poorer public health.

Sweden, a country of 10.3 million, had reported 4,639 Covid-19 deaths as of Friday.

That gives it one of the world’s highest virus mortality rates, with 459.3 deaths per million inhabitants – four times more than neighbouring Denmark and 10 times more than Norway, which both imposed stricter confinement measures.

At first Sweden’s export-heavy economy seemed to be doing okay, with GDP actually growing by 0.1% in the first quarter.

But now the country is expected to follow the same path as most of Europe, with its economy shrinking for the full-year 2020 and unemployment soaring.

GDP down, unemployment up

In April, the government predicted GDP would contract by four percent in 2020, compared to its January forecast of 1.1% growth.
While the European Commission has forecast a Swedish contraction of 6.1% (compared to -6.5 % for Germany and -7.7% for the eurozone), the outlook presented by the Swedish central bank is even more dire – it anticipates a GDP decline of up to 10%.

Some economists see Swedish growth rebounding as early as the second half of 2020, but the finance minister has warned things could get worse before they get better.

Before the crisis, Sweden’s labour market was in good shape, with strong job creation and a declining unemployment rate.

Now, the government expects a jobless rate of 9% for 2020 and 2021, compared to 6.8% in 2019.
It sees growth of 3.5% in 2021.


Export-based economy

Sweden’s sharp downturn is largely explained by its dependence on exports, which account for around 50% of GDP.
“70 percent of Swedish exports go to the EU. Shutdowns in Germany, the UK and so on are expected to hit Swedish exports considerably,” the government said.

In March, some of the country’s biggest companies, such as automaker Volvo Cars and truckmaker Scania, halted production in Sweden.
This was not because of local restrictions, but because of problems with supply chains in Europe and the rest of the world. Their activities have since resumed.

Meanwhile, consumption plunged by 24.8% between March 11 and April 5, according to a study conducted by four University of Copenhagen economists.
“Sweden is paying the same price [as Denmark] for the coronavirus pandemic. The explanation is that when you are in a galloping crisis, consumers pull the emergency brake, whether restaurants are closed or not,” Niels Johannesen, one of the four economists, told Swedish daily Helsingborgs Dagblad.
The government in mid-March announced measures worth nearly $32 billion (€28.3 billion) to help businesses.

Since then, more money has been allocated and new measures have been added, including a reduction of employers’ contributions, as well as paying companies’ costs for furloughed workers and sick leave.
“Given the state of government finances there is room for more expansionary fiscal policy ahead,” Olle Holmgren said.
Last edited by Sam Stone on 08 Jun 2020, 09:18, edited 2 times in total.

Sam Stone
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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Sam Stone » 08 Jun 2020, 09:13

Jimbo wrote:Just a hunch that some of you may be hypochondriacs. Take the test and see!

http://www.4degreez.com/misc/hypochondria_test.html

Here is my result.

"Your Hypochondria Rating: Very Low
Your rating indicates that hypochondria is not even on your radar. Far from being a hypochondriac, you almost never worry about your health or suffer the anxiety that defines this disorder."


Aside from being yet another pathetic attempt at "demonstrating" your moral, intellectual and now physical superiority to the rest of us, what does this have to do with anything?

While I cannot be bothered to satisfy your constant hunger for attention by trawling through years of posts, I'm pretty sure that you have in the past come on here asking other BCBers for their advice on minor ailments you thought were serious.

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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Diamond Dog » 08 Jun 2020, 11:41

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52961539

New Zealand has reported no new Covid-19 cases for more than two weeks.

New Zealand first went into lockdown on 25 March, setting up a new four-stage alert system and going in at level four, where most businesses were shut, schools closed and people told to stay at home.

After more than five weeks, it moved to alert level three in April, allowing takeaway food shops and some non-essential businesses to re-open.

As the number of community cases continued to decline, the country moved into level 2 in mid-May.

The move to level one comes ahead of plan - the government had originally meant to make the move on 22 June, but it was brought forward after no new cases were reported for 17 days, say local media outlets.

Under the new rules which will come into place in just a matter of hours, all schools and workplaces will be open. Weddings, funerals and public transport will be able to resume without any restrictions.

Social distancing will no longer be required but will still be encouraged.

However, all New Zealanders arriving from abroad will still have to go through a 14-day period of isolation or quarantine.

Ms Ardern warned that the country would "certainly see cases again", adding that "elimination is not a point in time, it is a sustained effort".

New Zealand has seen 1,154 confirmed cases and 22 deaths from Covid-19 since the virus arrived in late February, but has been widely praised for its handling of the crisis.


22 deaths - population 5 million. Scaled up to the UK 60 million - that would be around 270 deaths. We have 40,000 + and rising.

These strict lockdowns sure don't work.
People go on too much about the privileged background of politicians but actually Matt Hancock had a very humble upbringing in an Italian workshop owned by a woodworker named Geppetto who turned him into a human boy.

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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Sam Stone » 08 Jun 2020, 17:30

Research by proper scientists in white coats with clipboards and glasses and stuff (rather than sad sacks in their parents' bedrooms)
indicates lockdowns reduced infection rates by around 80%

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... ass-100000

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Lord Rother
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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Lord Rother » 08 Jun 2020, 21:01

...

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Flower
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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Flower » 08 Jun 2020, 21:26

Lord Rother wrote:...



Very true ... :D
If love could've saved you, you would've lived forever.

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Lord Rother
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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Lord Rother » 08 Jun 2020, 21:41

New Zealand
Population: 4.886 million
Area: 268,021 km²


England
Population: 55.98 million
Area: 130,395 km²

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toomanyhatz
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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby toomanyhatz » 08 Jun 2020, 21:59

Lord Rother wrote:New Zealand
Population: 4.886 million
Area: 268,021 km²


England
Population: 55.98 million
Area: 130,395 km²


It makes a difference, for sure. That's why I was saying that comparing like with unlike proves nothing. And part of it has to be environmental as well, as on a per-capita basis, Australia's pretty close to them.

That said, I don't think you or anyone else here (with one obvious exception) would deny that the actual '0' next to the 'active cases' column is pretty damned impressive, and might have at least something to do with steady, responsible leadership.
toomanyhatz wrote:
Jimbo wrote:Course Yahoo! News didn't tell you this.


Oh my god! Comedy gold!!!

https://news.yahoo.com/lancet-casts-dou ... 53194.html


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Lord Rother
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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Lord Rother » 08 Jun 2020, 22:00

Of course.

55.

;)

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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby trans-chigley express » 09 Jun 2020, 05:57

Hong Kong has performed remarkably well for its density of population and no full lockdown has been required. 7.5 million people. 1100 cases and 4 deaths (all imported). There were no new cases for a couple of weeks but there's been a few new ones the past week which suggests that you can never relax too much without risking a new wave.

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toomanyhatz
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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby toomanyhatz » 09 Jun 2020, 07:31

Here in my little 'burb, same thing, except it was pretty restricted for the first month or two. About 60 cases in a town of 70,000, which is still pretty good. But we're close to LA, which is hard-hit.

I think we need to get used to a certain amount of restriction as being our 'new normal.' Restrictions will loosen once cases go down, but they won't ever go down as long as people keep partying like it's 1999 (though I certainly get why they're doing it).
toomanyhatz wrote:
Jimbo wrote:Course Yahoo! News didn't tell you this.


Oh my god! Comedy gold!!!

https://news.yahoo.com/lancet-casts-dou ... 53194.html


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Jimbo
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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Jimbo » 09 Jun 2020, 13:33

So you want some scientific rationale for me saying the lockdown makes things worse, here is a UK oncologist who says "there are a potential 50,000 cancer patients who will likely die because of treatment delayed by government ‘Lockdown’ policy and what have effectively become a ‘COVID only NHS health service." https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/06/06/ ... qus_thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ-ATT_Cd6M&t
You don't have to be smart to see how fucked up this shit is. Jimmy Dore

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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Jimbo » 09 Jun 2020, 14:55

Onto the horseshit pile it goes.

Jun 9, 2020 - REPORT: Over 95% of UK “Covid19” deaths had “pre-existing condition” Latest statistics show vast majority of fatalities had at least one other disease

Image

https://off-guardian.org/2020/06/09/rep ... condition/
You don't have to be smart to see how fucked up this shit is. Jimmy Dore