Critically thinking about the corona virus

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Flower
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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Flower » 25 Sep 2020, 19:55

I have no problem with a lock down.

It is upsetting when I see so many people NOT wearing masks or social distancing.

It drives me insane that people feel the need to party and socialize during a pandemic.

If everyone used common sense, we might be able to come out alive and healthy.
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kath
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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby kath » 26 Sep 2020, 17:20

Six String wrote:I an afraid we have completely blown the idea of getting this thing under some kind of control before flu season. The only thing that makes me feel safe is that I’ll be following the same practices this winter and I’ll have a flu shot circulating so I’m not more concerned about the winter than I am right now.


we won't get this under control or even start to unless trump is ousted. it's the truth.

and the woman trump wants for the supreme court is rabidly anti-ACA, which means once she's confirmed, coverage for pre-existing conditions will go *poof* (along with roe vs. wade.) not that trump isn't already suing to get rid of the ACA.

there is a sick sadism behind all this that's hard to express. how fucqued do you hafta be to wanna get rid of insurance coverage for millions upon millions during a pandemic?

her confirmation is not gonna be stopped (i don't think). the only way any of this gets better is if biden wins and the dems take control of congress. the glimmer of a bright side: they just might do it.

but if anyone wants a very, very long, extensive blow-by-blow rundown of just how horrific trump and his lackeys have been with covid, here's a link. just what everyone wants to be reading on a saturday morning. mwhaha.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/trump-coronavirus-deaths-timeline.html*

now, trump has his minions at the CDC taking down information and asserting the virus isn't airborne. we've crossed 7 million cases now and over 200,000 deaths. some are predicting we'll hit 500,000 by the holidays.

as for me, yes, got a flu shot in march. yes, i have a former ER doc as my sister. but i do have some damage to one lung from an earlier, serious bout with pneumonia. all i can do is be as careful as possible and try not to go out too much. the best thing to do, in my mind, is to adopt a bunker mentality, as much as ya can. oh, and vote.

it'll get much worse before it gets better. that doesn't mean it won't get better. but everyone has to be very, very careful.

i think i have a flair for stating the obvious.


*for those of you who can't handle a massive, dark article on a saturday morning, here's a meme i found on the net:


Image

Sam Stone
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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Sam Stone » 26 Sep 2020, 19:12

6,042 new cases

34 deaths

That’s today.

100 deaths a day
Looking likely in a few
weeks time.


Icke and Corbin whipping up
hordes of thickos on an almost
weekly basis

The UK is well and truly fucked.
Last edited by Sam Stone on 27 Sep 2020, 09:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Sam Stone » 27 Sep 2020, 08:37

Oooops.

DP

Say something once, why say it again as David Byrne might put it
Last edited by Sam Stone on 27 Sep 2020, 09:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Samoan » 27 Sep 2020, 09:22

I didn't read The Guardian yesterday. A glance is enough. I tend to avoid it - too much brightly coloured apocalyptic click bait for my morale and wellbeing.

What I can share is that the two men folk in my family who work up close and personal with potential C19 carriers are fit and healthy and the 4 person "potential plague house" (brother, sister in law, nephew and niece), as my sister and I call it, is C19 free or symptomatically C19 free.
In fact my nephew has been "stood down" as a junior A&E doc in an outer London hospital and has been allowed to go back to work and study his favoured speciality (tropical diseases) at an inner London hospital. He's only been taking the odd locum shift at the aforementioned A&E as he needs the funds to help pay back his student loan.

Anyway, that is this week - Next week is another week.
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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Sam Stone » 29 Sep 2020, 10:13

Deaths now through the 1,000,000 mark globally and the pandemic showing no sign of slowing according to the World Health Organisation

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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby soundchaser » 29 Sep 2020, 10:27

Flower wrote:I have no problem with a lock down.

It is upsetting when I see so many people NOT wearing masks or social distancing.

It drives me insane that people feel the need to party and socialize during a pandemic.

If everyone used common sense, we might be able to come out alive and healthy.


Wrong species to be talking about common sense, unfortunately.

Keep everyone at a distance and assume strangers are stupid.

Hopefully, there will be light at the end of the tunnel. But as you know, this virus isn’t our biggest problem.

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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Diamond Dog » 11 Oct 2020, 15:32

Looks like Johnson has some crackdown on the way for many Northern cities tomorrow. It will be interesting how he expects the police to enforce it and/or the level of compliance.

I also notice that there appears to be much less noise from the hoax/conspiracy theorists in the UK in the past month. Maybe they're struggling to explain why something that never happened, has decided to not happen again quite so vehemently?
I have put the ignorant, inflammatory bore on ignore.

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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Sam Stone » 11 Oct 2020, 16:57

Diamond Dog wrote:
I also notice that there appears to be much less noise from the hoax/conspiracy theorists in the UK in the past month. Maybe they're struggling to explain why something that never happened, has decided to not happen again quite so vehemently?



Maybe they're struggling for breath in an ICU or not breathing at all any more.

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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Jimbo » 12 Oct 2020, 09:45

Told you.

COVID Shocker: WHO Does Policy U-Turn, Condemns Use of Lockdowns
October 11, 2020 By NEWS WIRE 2 Comments

This latest policy u-turn by the World Health Organization (WHO) could make life awkward for fanatical lockdown governments in the UK, Australia and Spain, as well as in states like New York.

Yesterday, WHO lead official Dr. David Nabarro appealed to world leaders to stop “using lockdowns as your primary control method” of suppressing COVID-19.

“Lockdowns just have one consequence that you must never ever belittle, and that is making poor people an awful lot poorer,” said Dr. Nabarro.

He went on to warn western governments that draconian lockdown policies are only achieving one thing – unnecessary poverty and suffering.

At no point did he state that medieval-style lockdown measures have ‘saved lives.’

This goes directly against repeated statements by WHO director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, who has advocating for lockdowns all along, saying that, “[L]ockdowns enabled many countries to suppress transmission and take the pressure off their health systems.”

However, increased economic and social devastation from WHO policy recommendations has triggered a wave of dissent across the world as more people begin to realize that lockdowns never really worked to begin with.


During a recent interview with British magazine, The Spectator, Dr Nabarro said, “We in the World Health Organization do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus.”

The intention of his statement was clear, as he categorically rebuked the use of lockdowns by authoritarian governments in the UK and elsewhere:

“The only time we believe a lockdown is justified is to buy you time to reorganize, regroup, re-balance your resources, protect your health workers who are exhausted, but by and large, we’d rather not do it.”

He also blamed reckless lockdown policies and obsessive travel restrictions as being responsible for decimating delicate economies which rely on tourism to survive, as well as strangling small farmers in poorer regions:

“Just look at what’s happened to the tourism industry in the Caribbean, for example, or in the Pacific because people aren’t taking their holidays.”

“Look what’s happened to smallholder farmers all over the world. … Look what’s happening to poverty levels. It seems that we may well have a doubling of world poverty by next year. We may well have at least a doubling of child malnutrition.”

Dr Nabarro is instead advocating for practical and science-based approach to dealing with the risk of Coronavirus:

“And so, we really do appeal to all world leaders: stop using lockdown as your primary control method. Develop better systems for doing it. Work together and learn from each other.”

Dr Nabarro’s message has come just a week after the release of the Great Barrington Declaration drafted by a group of the world’s top epidemiologists including Dr. Sunetra Gupta of the University of Oxford, Dr. Jay Bhattacharya of Stanford University, and Dr. Martin Kulldorff of Harvard University – which has declared lockdowns as doing “irreparable damage” to economies and societies.

“As infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists, we have grave concerns about the damaging physical and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies, and recommend an approach we call Focused Protection…. Current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health,” reads the declaration now signed by thousands of scientists, health officials and concerned citizens.

It now remains to be seen if lockdown states will heed the advice of the same WHO which helped lead them into this debacle to begin with.
kath wrote: *which is the real reason he can fucque off and rot for the rest of time.

Jimbo wrote: So Kath, put on your puka love beads ... Then go fuque yourself.

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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Sam Stone » 12 Oct 2020, 10:49

Despite several examples of members of each country's 'ruling classes' flouting the rules, the vast majority of people seem to have toed the lockdown line first time around. The problems began to kick in when the likes of Cummings get away scot free and governments start rushing people into getting back to work and out and about again.

Six months down the line, I think people have gotten complacent (I know I make mistakes that would have appalled me back in late March and April) and are fed up to the back teeth of their governments' endless U-turns.

The UK's constant chopping and changing also has a profound impact here in Ireland as the borders are - pre finalisation of Brexit - still pretty porous. The figures for Norn Iron on the news last night were pretty scary.

I can see us reaching point (some might argue we've already passed it) where lockdowns can no longer be justified in terms of either their economic or social costs. At which point one would imagine governments are going to have to offer people the choice of either cocooning themselves indoors (the elderly and vulnerable, who - like me - have had pretty decent lives) or going out and about and damn the risks (the younger people who are going to end up paying for all of this)

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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Diamond Dog » 12 Oct 2020, 11:11

Image
I have put the ignorant, inflammatory bore on ignore.

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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Darkness_Fish » 12 Oct 2020, 11:50

Funny how jimbo had no problem with isolation when he thought he was in danger...
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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby kath » 12 Oct 2020, 12:46

i've gotta admit... it was fun while it lasted.

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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Flower » 12 Oct 2020, 15:08

This article gives most of us something to think about ... The truth is out there but where?

The Misinformation Age Has Exacerbated—And Been Exacerbated By—the Coronavirus Pandemic

https://time.com/5870464/coronavirus-pa ... formation/

If you’re looking for solid information on COVID-19, the Internet is not always your best bet—equal parts encyclopedia and junkyard, solid science on the one hand and rubbish, rumors and fabulism on the other. Distinguishing between the two is not always easy, and with so much of the time we spend online devoted either to sharing links or reading ones that have been shared with us, not only does the junk get believed, it also gets widely disseminated, creating a ripple effect of falsehoods that can misinform people and even endanger lives.

“At its worst, misinformation of this sort may cause people to turn to ineffective (and potentially harmful) remedies,” write the authors of a new paper in Psychological Science, “as well as to overreact (hoarding goods) or, more dangerously, to underreact (engaging in risky behavior and inadvertently spreading the virus).”

It’s well-nigh impossible to keep the Internet entirely free of such trash, but in theory it ought not be quite as hard to confine it to the fever swamps where it originates and prevent it from spreading. The new study explores not only why people believe Internet falsehoods, but how to help them become more discerning and less reckless about what they share.

One of the leading reasons misinformation about the COVID-19 pandemic gains traction is that it’s a topic that scares the daylights out of us. The more emotional valence something we read online has, the likelier we are to pass it on—either to share the joy if it’s something good or unburden ourselves if it’s bad.

“Our research has shown that emotion makes people less discerning,” says David Rand, associate professor at the MIT School of Management and a co-author of the new study. “When it comes to COVID-19, people who are closer to the epicenter of the disease are likelier to share information online, whether it’s true or false.”

That’s in keeping with earlier research out of MIT, published in 2018 showing that fake news spreads faster on Twitter than does the truth. The reason, the researchers in that study wrote, was that the lies “were more novel than true news …[eliciting] fear, disgust and surprise in replies,” just the things that provide the zing to sharing in the first place.
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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby kath » 12 Oct 2020, 15:31

Flower wrote:This article gives most of us something to think about ... The truth is out there but where?


but the article isn't really about whether the truth is out there are not.

it's about approaching the flood of online information with critical thought. it's about "priming" people ahead of time to be ready to use some cognitive cues before they read what they read. studies show it helps people to analyze the information more accurately. the article closes with some suggestions on how facebook and twitter could actually provide some of that "priming" with minimal actions.

not that facebook or twitter would ever do that, but they could. and it would make people better readers of information.

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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby soundchaser » 12 Oct 2020, 15:45

I just rely on the BBC and Kath for my factual information. I don’t do Facebook or Twitter, so I’m good.

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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby kath » 12 Oct 2020, 16:15

soundchaser wrote:I just rely on the BBC and Kath for my factual information. I don’t do Facebook or Twitter, so I’m good.


i'm on facebook, although i NEVER look up any politics there. on facebook, i basically just yap music and post endless music clips. mwhaha. i have a twitter account, but i think i've posted maybe ten times in ten years. twitter just aint my own expressive need. i gotta sprawl.

but i *do* read, rapid-fire, many twitter accounts as web pages. googled em, bookmarked em. they are sources i trust (not just reporters or pundits but historians, docs, psychiatrists, comedians, writers, military types and some fucquers i found somehow that just happen to be funny as hell.)

these are people that cite their sources, even if *i* happen to forget from time to time to provide the source here. i also scan em all pretty fast, which means sometimes i completely forget where i found some damn thing, so i typically leave it out when i post here. (for example, i read somewhere this morning that joe biden is polling better than any challenger since 1936. but i can't recall where it's from, meaning i can't source it at all. so i didn't put it in my earlier post in the president thread. er... although i just used it as an example here, mwhaha.)

of course, much of what i say is just my own opinion, and that's always open for debate.

i am ever willing to correct anything factual i may get wrong if someone points it out. but yeah, i'm pretty steeped in and obsessed with what i consider to be the best of twitter. reliable twitter.

just speaking for myself, i think it is incredibly easy to spot reliable twitter from bullshit/batshit twitter. it is just as easy to spot bullshit/batshit sources, like the kinds littered throughout this whole thread.

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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby Flower » 12 Oct 2020, 18:16

kath wrote:
Flower wrote:This article gives most of us something to think about ... The truth is out there but where?


but the article isn't really about whether the truth is out there are not.

it's about approaching the flood of online information with critical thought. it's about "priming" people ahead of time to be ready to use some cognitive cues before they read what they read. studies show it helps people to analyze the information more accurately. the article closes with some suggestions on how facebook and twitter could actually provide some of that "priming" with minimal actions.

not that facebook or twitter would ever do that, but they could. and it would make people better readers of information.


Sorry if you misunderstood me. "The truth is out there but where?" is my question. I see lots and lots of opinions on the internet. Everyone has an opinion or two or twenty which is interesting. For example, this board is filled with opinions on music, life, etc. Yes, there is a lot of knowledge in this mix but many many opinions which is good thing to see how others perceive the world.

There is a major difference between opinion and fact. The same information can be analyzed in different ways,
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Re: Critically thinking about the corona virus

Postby kath » 12 Oct 2020, 18:51

Flower wrote:
kath wrote:
Flower wrote:This article gives most of us something to think about ... The truth is out there but where?


but the article isn't really about whether the truth is out there are not.

it's about approaching the flood of online information with critical thought. it's about "priming" people ahead of time to be ready to use some cognitive cues before they read what they read. studies show it helps people to analyze the information more accurately. the article closes with some suggestions on how facebook and twitter could actually provide some of that "priming" with minimal actions.

not that facebook or twitter would ever do that, but they could. and it would make people better readers of information.


Sorry if you misunderstood me. "The truth is out there but where?" is my question. I see lots and lots of opinions on the internet. Everyone has an opinion or two or twenty which is interesting. For example, this board is filled with opinions on music, life, etc. Yes, there is a lot of knowledge in this mix but many many opinions which is good thing to see how others perceive the world.

There is a major difference between opinion and fact. The same information can be analyzed in different ways,


i don't think i misunderstood you. i don't have a problem with the article. i'm always interested in critical thought and how it can be "bolstered" or helped in this age of information overload.

i had a problem with the way you framed it. the article is not some vague "is the truth out there and where?" it is specifically focused on how to make people more critical readers. that's all.

i don't mind any opinions on the nature of knowing things. there's groovy meat there. so yer question in general is fine. it's just not a summation of the article.

absolutely there is a major difference between fact and opinion. opinions, as "information", can be analyzed in different ways. the very nature of a fact means it can't be. it's an important distinction to make. opinions on, say, music are most definitely not the same as, say, facts on covid, what type of virus it is, how it spreads, etc. (which is what this thread is about). that is no more subject to debate than the fact that i am 5'8" is.