Critically thinking about the corona virus

[Jimbo]

https://reaction.life/we-may-already-ha ... tra-gupta/

If all you want is bad news then this amazing interview is not for you. Gupta's suggestions seem too simple, too practicable, too sensible, too old schooly, like how our grandparents handled problems. So DON'T READ!!!

Of course our grandparents generation died... In their millions.

Don't worry, DB. Most of those who fell victim to the 1918 Spanish Flu died in the second wave that came with the cold winter weather.

Our generation still has the second wave to look forward to (if that's the right expression).

Sadly, herd immunity also might be an entirely moot point as some people who've had C19 and recovered now seem to be getting it again.

Clearly you didn't read the interview where the professor explains what happened in the Spanish flu.

[`]

Of course our grandparents generation died... In their millions.

Don't worry, DB. Most of those who fell victim to the 1918 Spanish Flu died in the second wave that came with the cold winter weather.

Our generation still has the second wave to look forward to (if that's the right expression).

Sadly, herd immunity also might be an entirely moot point as some people who've had C19 and recovered now seem to be getting it again.

Clearly you didn't read the interview where the professor explains what happened in the Spanish flu.

Yes, millions and millions of people died

[Jimbo]

Don't worry, DB. Most of those who fell victim to the 1918 Spanish Flu died in the second wave that came with the cold winter weather.

Our generation still has the second wave to look forward to (if that's the right expression).

Sadly, herd immunity also might be an entirely moot point as some people who've had C19 and recovered now seem to be getting it again.

Clearly you didn't read the interview where the professor explains what happened in the Spanish flu.

Yes, millions and millions of people died

Because .....

[`]

Um, Big Pharma?

[toomanyhatz]

Scientists have all kinds of opinions and theories on all kinds of things. Because one says something that, interpreted a certain way, might confirm your bias doesn't mean you have a "gotcha!" There are equally respected scientists that say the exact opposite. The fact that she's using a lot of 'maybe' and 'we may see' proves that she knows that she doesn't know everything. That is the mark of an actual scientist, rather than saying "Yeah, let's go with this."

She might already think some of her predictions have already been disproven.

This is a new virus. Yes, we can learn things from past Coronaviruses, and maybe even the flu, but I think it's already been proven several times over that it doesn't act the same way. Hence we still struggle with, disagree about, and debate the best course of action based on what we do know.

The hallmarks of "phase two" of the lockdown are: try these simple measures. They might help. But that requires compliance. We haven't gotten it yet, but in areas where we have, it seems to have helped.

Not to mention that the UK is roughly the size of California - so it will act differently than it will in the US as a whole.

Spread via outbreaks, it seems like every major urban area will see one at some point. The trick is to make sure that, when a big wave hits, you have the resources to treat people as best you can. New York was broadsided, LA assumed they were past the worst and weren't. Neither has had much help from the federal government for hopefully obvious reasons.

Next you try to reduce the size of the waves. Herd Immunity levels of infection - even if we CAN get there, and even if the recurrent cases prove to be rare - will devastate huge cities. Already has, and will get to the ones it hasn't eventually. The cost is too high. As Sweden has shown.

"She's wrong" is just as possible an explanation as hers, and I suspect she'd admit as much.

[toomanyhatz]

Um, Big Pharma?

No, that was last week. We're on to eugenics now.

I know it's hard to keep up what with the goalposts in constant motion and all.

[toomanyhatz]

Maggie: Would you like to see a national antibody testing regime?

Oh yes, even though it’s flawed. The tests themselves are not perfect, and we now know that some people just don’t make the antibodies even though they’ve been infected, or if they make the antibodies they’re at such low levels that they’re below the cut-offs of the tests. Knowing all of that, I think we should still go out and produce a very fine map of what the exposure levels are. That will help us allocate resources in the winter, when it’s very likely to come back. So yes, that should happen and I don’t know why it hasn’t.

[Jimbo]

Maggie: Would you like to see a national antibody testing regime?

Oh yes, even though it’s flawed. The tests themselves are not perfect, and we now know that some people just don’t make the antibodies even though they’ve been infected, or if they make the antibodies they’re at such low levels that they’re below the cut-offs of the tests. Knowing all of that, I think we should still go out and produce a very fine map of what the exposure levels are. That will help us allocate resources in the winter, when it’s very likely to come back. So yes, that should happen and I don’t know why it hasn’t.

Is your posting of "my" professor's tepid endorsement for a national testing regime supposed to make me feel bad for calling horseshit on testing? For one thing she is endorsing an antibody test and a not the proven to be flawed PCR tests. Another thing is that as long as it doesn't shut down life as we know it, go ahead and test I guess.

The most important thing re Gupta's prescription is how it makes what I have been saying for months right, or as right as an Oxford professor can be. My ego is a sensitive little beast and needs a stroke from time to time. You guys just like to kick this shit out of it. Well, Professor Gupta's endorsement of herd immunity, however reservedly she states it, Hatz, is a tonic for my ego.

[`]

Um, Big Pharma?

No, that was last week. We're on to eugenics now.

I know it's hard to keep up what with the goalposts in constant motion and all.

Like death and taxes, Big Pharma will always be with us, Hatz!

And like the Covid-19 virus itself, it won't be long before it makes a come back on this thread.

[toomanyhatz]

Is your posting of "my" professor's tepid endorsement for a national testing regime supposed to make me feel bad for calling horseshit on testing?

No, I have no investment whatsoever in whether you feel bad or not. It's the "calling horseshit on testing" that's the problem. You have given a very good example of what bias confirmation is. At least you admit it's about your ego and not about the facts. That's a start. Though I know from past experience you're not willing to take it any farther.

The main point I was trying to make is that your "evidence" is a movable feast - yes, the testing is inaccurate and sketchy - for a lot of reasons. But it doesn't prove what you think it proves. And you seem remarkably unconcerned with any of your reasoning being debunked - you just move on to another explanation.

And that is the best explanation of the difference between thinking critically and bias confirmation. Gupta is a scientist I disagree with. Most of your "sources" are charlatans.

[Jimbo]

If you want to know why we have all this horseshit here's a pretty good explanation.

Western civilization, led by the US government and media, has embarked upon a campaign of mass psychological terrorism designed to cover for the collapsing economy, set up a new pretext for Wall Street’s ongoing plunder expedition, radically escalate the police state, deeply traumatize people into submission to total social conformity, and radically aggravate the anti-social, anti-human atomization of the people..... Why do the people want to surrender and throw away all reality and future prospect of shared humanity, happiness, freedom, well-being, over so little? Is this really a terminal totalitarian death cult, the globe as one massive Jonestown?

https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/27/the ... d-conquer/

Have a nice day!

[Diamond Dog]

This is critically thinking in which way exactly?

[Jimbo]

This is critically thinking in which way exactly?

Huh? It's an explanation. It's a projection. It's a way more critical look at the future than the horseshit you lap up. Howzit taste by the way? Horseshit. Bits of hay and oats in the mushy stuff I imagine.

How is it you are a fan of the Conservatives all of a sudden? They say masks and you say Howdy Hitler! No critical thought at all. It's depressing. No concerts, no arts, no church, no parties. Can't leave the country. And don't blame the virus. It's our government that makes these dumbass decisions. It's political, not science. Jesus wept.

[Diamond Dog]

You really ought to be ashamed of yourself.

You're now comparing being asked to wear a mask as similar to saying "Howdy Hitler"?

You.

[`]

No concerts, no arts, no church, no parties. Can't leave the country.

On the plus side, it sounds as if your local gym has re-opened

[Jimbo]

You really ought to be ashamed of yourself.

You're now comparing being asked to wear a mask as similar to saying "Howdy Hitler"?

You.

It's so much more than masks.

[toomanyhatz]

Never ceases to amaze me how low he'll go.

How is it you are a fan of the Conservatives all of a sudden? They say masks and you say Howdy Hitler! No critical thought at all.

As opposed to Jimbo, who meekly puts on his mask in the health club, then complains about it on the internet. Wow, what a rebel.

No concerts

Horseshit. There are concerts.

no arts

Horseshit. Artists are creating as much as ever. Quite possibly more.

no church

Horseshit. There is not a single church anywhere in the world that has been forced to close. God is everywhere, right? The churches that haven't followed the restrictions have been met with death and increased cases. You've obviously never picked up a bible or you'd know church has been interrupted and restricted by natural calamities for all of human history.

no parties

Yes, there is a mandate on parties. People have them anyway. Are the jackbooted soldiers breaking them up and arresting hosts? Nope, they're too busy arresting legitimate protesters, goaded on by our Hitler-in-chief.

And don't blame the virus

.

The virus that's not really happening? Or the one that's been exaggerated? Or the one that's only killing blacks and old people? Or the one that will soon dwindle to almost nothing? It's so hard to keep up.

Go to bed, Junior. The adults are talking.

[Dr. Baron]

The adults are talking.

To Jimbo.
For fiftysomething pages.
It’s absolutely mind boggling.

[toomanyhatz]

To be fair, not with the expectation that he's going to suddenly start making sense.

And some of the take-downs have been epic and entertaining, at least.

Small victories where we find 'em. What else we got to do? Talk music or something?

[souphound]

Unbelievable. Even in Canada eh?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-officers-clear-out-disheartening-brampton-house-party-with-20-2/

Officers clear out ‘disheartening’ Brampton house party with 200 attendees
BRAMPTON, ONTARIO
THE CANADIAN PRESS
PUBLISHED JULY 26, 2020
Police west of Toronto say bylaw officers broke up a house party attended by as many as 200 people on Saturday night.

Peel Regional Police say the partygoers in Brampton, Ont., were violating provincial emergency orders enacted because of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Peel Region remains in Stage 2 of the province’s reopening plan, limiting gatherings to a maximum of 10 people with physical distancing in effect.

Police say nearby residents called in to report the party just before 10 p.m., and bylaw officers arrived on scene about an hour later.

They say it took another hour to clear out the party.

Police say they didn’t lay criminal charges, and representatives for the City of Brampton did not immediately respond to a request for comment about whether bylaw officers issued tickets.

Constable Kyle Villers called the incident “disheartening.”

“It shows the complete disregard for the health and well being of everybody in Brampton,” he said. “To have a party with this many people giving the state of the world with COVID-19 is a ripe opportunity for another outbreak.”

Constable Villers said it only takes one person to show symptoms to have hundreds of cases come out, which affects the greater community.

I sincerely despair.

In the first place, how did these idiots think they were going to get away with it? The hosts had even hired security just to park the cars, of which there were around 100.