My sources vs. yours

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Jimbo
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My sources vs. yours

Postby Jimbo » 26 Nov 2019, 07:16

I proffer this list, firstly, in order to introduce and enlighten those of my fellow BCBers who are politically inclined but, IMO, under-informed. Secondarily my goal is to show you that I am not a lone loony and that there is a pretty large community out here from where I get many of my ideas and that we are thoughtful folks and not Russia-bots, MAGA yokels or trolls. I will say that by and large all my favorite sources are Russia-friendly and don't believe for a second that Trump nor Tulsi Gabbard are Russian agents. They also for freeing Assange and mostly side with the Palestinians. I will also say that 9/11 and similar conspiracy theories as I see them is a topic most of my sources avoid. I don't forgive them.

Also, if you don't mind, I'd like to see where you get your news and views.

So, all from my computer's Favorites list here I go!

I will begin with my YouTube subscriptions

RT - Maybe it is Russia's way to upset the American populace but they do it not by misinformation but by telling the truth.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpwvZw ... xB7g4USKpg

The Hill - It looks like a fancy cable news channel but is only a YouTube outlet with a lefty/libertarian bent. "Rising" is the show I mostly watch - or clips.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPWXiR ... PFIQT7eHSA

The Jimmy Dore Show - A comedian whose shtick is to stop and start video clips mostly taking down the left from the left. Why not the right? Because the right's badness is a given. The left needs scrutiny and Dore is the scrutinizer. Try it. You'll like it. Also a podcast.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3M7l8 ... 45AVzS0RGA

Rolling Stone's "Useful Idiots" with ace reporter Matt Taibbi and comedian Katie Halper. A two part show. Part one is their three part funny analysis/take down of the week's news. Part one: Democrats. Two: Republicans. Three: Stupid shit. Part two is an interview and it seems they like to interview people in my source bubble: Jimmy Dore, Max Blumenthal, Chris Hedges ... AKA Russians. Also a podcast.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-Jblc ... lrUdSaRNEg

Secular Talk - Host Kyle Kulinski is a lefty, a Sanders supporter and is focused on policy over politics. What pols do rather than say is important.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCldfgb ... 4dmDt4Cd6A

The Gray Zone - This is the show that goes deepest into the shit. Max Blumenthal, Aaron Mate - they'll be the first off to the gulag when the shit comes down. Also a podcast: "Moderate Rebels."
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEXR8p ... eJePNe9UcQ

Michael Tracy - Disheveled, slow talking political analyst but always right the fuck on.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaLn4F ... BcdbYgYWow

Kim Iversen - A Vietnamese mother, a midwestern American Swede Father, a beauty contest winner, a long time radio host who got fed up with the trivia and started her own political channel. Happily this honey, a Tulsi Gabbard endorser, is on my side. Very astute.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoJTOw ... l8Qat2zgTA

Corbett Report - Tireless Corbett cranks out videos and docs, all pretty well made, and puts them up for all to watch for free. He's an internet oldie but goodie and has been telling the truth since 9/11, about which, his five minute short "9/11: A Conspiracy Theory" has 3.2 million views. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7TvL4 ... lUsTrN_C4Q

The Young Turks - A channel I watch less than I used to because how among all my favs they were more on board the Russiagate train than I liked. Nonetheless, their hearts are on the left.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1yBKR ... M73A0ZjYjQ

Lionel Nation - "Lionel" is a lawyer and offers his legal opinion but he seems to love Trump, which I don't think is necessarily a bad thing. Lionel gives me perspective. Here is an intelligent person who likes Trump. I wonder why. He is also a 9/11 truther :D but also a UFO guy :? .
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCa3-BN ... fhMuotYskg

George Galloway - A former UK pol (so he knows), pro-Palestinian, hard left lefty who is as good a talker as you are ever likely to hear.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf_HIt ... nkWt2RSOLg

Scott Horton - an anti-war libertarian, another indefatigable internet person and don't be fooled by his hokey accent. He is sharp and has the best interviews - especially about foreign affairs - 100s of them, than anyone. (Podcast)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbGRav ... EO9oN7ekMw

UK Column - a simple trice-weekly newscast from Plymouth, England who takes the deepest dives into British politics than I can know about. Pro-Brexit but has insisted from the start that it will never happen.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbGRav ... EO9oN7ekMw

Web sites

Consortium News - Award winning investigative journalism. Don't be afraid. Check it out.
https://consortiumnews.com/

Break For News - an odd duck. A message board lefty - libertarian bent, kinda anti-Semitic posters. The site host Fintan Dunne is a bright fellow whose daily list of Tweets offers a heads up of current events.
http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=1

21st Century Wire - Can't be beaten for Syria news. Great weekly radio show with a stream on the site. Also a podcast.
https://21stcenturywire.com/

Paul Craig Roberts - A former Reagan finance minister now a rightish-leftish-libertarian, 9/11 truth belivin', pro-Putin, revisionist historian, smooth talkin' southern gentleman always has some interesting and cutting essays about the state of shit.
https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/

Caitlin Johnstone - Shitheels who dismiss her writing out of hand can kiss my ass. Dissing Caty is dissing my woman. She DA Woman! Most incisive writer going IMO. If you want pablum ask Davey his sources.
https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone

OffGuardian - A fuck you to the actual Guardian newspaper. It offers alternative news and opinions that in no way would the cowardly Guardian publish. Always good stuff.
https://off-guardian.org/

Moon of Alabama - A little dry in its presentation but a lot of meat beneath its surface.
https://www.moonofalabama.org/

Corbett Report - The webpage is better than the YouTube channel because on site Corbett always presents links to his sources. Don't believe 9/11 was an inside job? Here are links to sources which should tell you otherwise.
https://www.corbettreport.com/

We Meant Well - This guy Peter Van Buren is an excellent writer and former state department employee. Really great and amusing essays. His current stuff about the impeachment should be in the NYT.
https://wemeantwell.com/blog/

Zero Hedge - Not a big favorite but I visit here from time to time to see what those on the intelligent right are thinking.
https://www.zerohedge.com/

Anti-War.com - Jam packed with news, especially articles which tell the truth about America's military, not the sanitized shit (clean coal) you get from the bought and paid for MSM.
https://www.antiwar.com/

Voltaire Network - I really like this low key site. It's French and the articles mostly by Thierry Meyssan are translated into English and pretty well I must say. For a European perspective of the alternative news scene I often visit.
https://www.voltairenet.org/en

Wikileaks - For no good reason it is one of my least-visited alt news sites. It is in my favorites nonetheless maybe because it is already a big source for all the other channels.
https://wikileaks.org/

Mintpress - For Epstein news it is the best alt site.
https://www.mintpressnews.com/

Global Research - Wow. You think you know what "Up" is? GR will show how up is down and down is out the window. A great alt news site.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/

BONUS!!!

My newest favorite - Fault Lines. It's a real 3 hour morning drive radio show but I listen to the podcast. Two guys, a kind of liberal guy and a kind of conservative guy host and the banter is top flight political talk.
... an essential element of this story being impossible, we cannot take seriously the other elements that are before us ... Thierry Meyssan

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Flower
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Re: My sources vs. yours

Postby Flower » 26 Nov 2019, 21:45

Just checking out your sources would be a full time job.

May the source be with you ... ;)
If love could've saved you, you would've lived forever.

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Jimbo
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Re: My sources vs. yours

Postby Jimbo » 26 Nov 2019, 22:13

Flower wrote: May the source be with you ... ;)


You'd only need to open one site to see where I'm at politically. G'head. Open one. It won't bite. I promise. It's good for you. Good things will happen if you open ..... Just. One. Link. G'head. Open it. Open it, Flower, Open it .....

Bwhahahaaaaaaaaaa!

Arrrgh! The Russians! They're everywhere. PUTIN! No. No. No. No. What are you doing with that miniature camera? No pictures. No Putin, no! Bots! Viruses! Trolls! Yuck! Must turn off computer .... zzzzvvvvtttt.

Ahhh.

Huh? Nooooooooooo!
... an essential element of this story being impossible, we cannot take seriously the other elements that are before us ... Thierry Meyssan

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toomanyhatz
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Re: My sources vs. yours

Postby toomanyhatz » 26 Nov 2019, 22:58

source bubble


Should be the actual thread title.

FWIW - and imo, it ain't much - I've seen a lot of these.

Generally speaking it's all part of one bubble.

There is a case to be made that it has compartments, but once you're in, you're pretty much breathing recycled air.
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Jimbo wrote:Trump is right. The collusion conspiracy theory has been debunked and you seem to refuse to look at the evidence.

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Re: My sources vs. yours

Postby Flower » 27 Nov 2019, 00:46

Jimbo wrote:
You'd only need to open one site to see where I'm at politically. G'head. Open one. It won't bite. I promise. It's good for you. Good things will happen if you open ..... Just. One. Link. G'head. Open it. Open it, Flower, Open it .....


There's a loud knocking on my door .... have to go hide now.

Anyway, can't only read one.

Night.
If love could've saved you, you would've lived forever.

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Jimbo
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Re: My sources vs. yours

Postby Jimbo » 27 Nov 2019, 01:37

toomanyhatz wrote:
source bubble


Should be the actual thread title.


Again. Touche. But it isn't Like you go to FOX News for a fresh perspective. Or do you? C'mon, Hatz. I showed mine. Show yours.
... an essential element of this story being impossible, we cannot take seriously the other elements that are before us ... Thierry Meyssan

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Re: My sources vs. yours

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 27 Nov 2019, 03:53

Though I blocked our pal Jimbo a year ago (not out of animosity - but in an effort to not be the reason for his domination of our collective political discussion here) - I couldn’t resist opening this post.

A pretty sad confirmation bias loop. Sad he can’t see that.
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Re: My sources vs. yours

Postby Jimbo » 27 Nov 2019, 04:10

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Though I blocked our pal Jimbo a year ago (not out of animosity - but in an effort to not be the reason for his domination of our collective political discussion here) - I couldn’t resist opening this post.

A pretty sad confirmation bias loop. Sad he can’t see that.


So show me your unbiased loop. If I need to expand my views then I need to know what my betters enjoy.
... an essential element of this story being impossible, we cannot take seriously the other elements that are before us ... Thierry Meyssan

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Re: My sources vs. yours

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 27 Nov 2019, 04:57

I don’t have a loop. I read as much across the spectrum as I can.
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Re: My sources vs. yours

Postby Jimbo » 27 Nov 2019, 06:33

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:I don’t have a loop. I read as much across the spectrum as I can.


Bullshit. Surely there are a few go-to favorites. Don't be coy. Lay 'em on me.
... an essential element of this story being impossible, we cannot take seriously the other elements that are before us ... Thierry Meyssan

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Re: My sources vs. yours

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 27 Nov 2019, 09:02

Looking at my browser history in the last 48 hours...

Rolling Stone (Andy Kroll)
The Root (Michel Harriot)
Politico (Ryan Lizza)
The Hill (Justine Coleman)
NYT Magazine (Susan Dominus)
Haaretz (David Stavrou)
The Atlantic (David Frum :oops: )
Common Dreams (Julia Conley)
Media Matters (Julie Millican)

I also listened to to a podcast in which Yascha Mounk interviewed Martin Gurri, and another with Ezra Klein interviewing Yancey Strickler.

I don’t think that a single journalist’s name on that list could be called a “go to” for me - with the possible exception of Mounk and Klein, as I listen to their podcasts pretty regularly. The rest of these are writers I may not come across again in a month (with the exception of Lizza - who seems to come up a lot).

I don’t make any great claims about my media diet. But there are no comedians here, and nobody that I take pride in their agreement with me. I just follow my nose and read whatever stories interest me at any given time. Mostly I try to stay attuned to opinion passed off as fact, and to any agendas that might be present. I definitely do NOT have a set of preset positions I expect to be held by those I read/watch/listen to. A lot of what I read directly challenges my priors. That will often attract me to a story.
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Re: My sources vs. yours

Postby Jimbo » 30 Nov 2019, 01:45

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Attacking The Source: The Establishment Loyalist’s Favorite Online Tactic
Caitlin Johnstone
Nov 28 · 7 min read

The correct response to someone who attacks the outlet or individual you’re citing instead of attacking the actual argument being made is, “You’re attacking the source instead of the argument. That’s a logical fallacy, and it’s only ever employed by people who can’t attack the argument.”


https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/atta ... d4bd6e8793

I swear I didn't ask Caitlin to write this. I swear.

But how right on she is. Thumbing your nose at sources like Glenn Greenwald, Consortium News, RT, "comedian" Jimmy Dore or even my darling Caitlin won't cut the mustard. If what they say or write is true it's fucking true.
... an essential element of this story being impossible, we cannot take seriously the other elements that are before us ... Thierry Meyssan

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Re: My sources vs. yours

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 30 Nov 2019, 04:53

I can do both. I’ve taken apart the specific arguments line by line of several articles you’ve posted. If it weren’t for the sheer volume, I’d be happy to do it for all of them.

But it makes sense that Caitlin would say that. She knows that a lot of people dismiss her based on her track record - and they are right to do so. She’s peddling opinions, not facts. So for that matter is Jimmy Dore, and Glenn Greenwald has actively blurred the lines between opinion and journalism.

The fact is - just about every one of your “sources” trades in opinion, largely at the expense of actual reporting. But that is a feature, not a bug given that you come at the information you consume with a lot of preconditions about what you are willing to believe.

Essentially - your information habits are a disaster. I don’t know how to be kinder about saying so.
Last edited by Davey the Fat Boy on 30 Nov 2019, 16:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My sources vs. yours

Postby Jimbo » 30 Nov 2019, 10:29

Assuming you are a typical Hillary Clinton supporter, or supporting whomever is embodying her essence today, you are wrong. You are wrong about Russia, especially how you believed Trump was a Russian agent and all that, that Russia attempted to murder the Skypals in Salisbury, that Russia invaded Ukraine, that Crimea was forcibly annexed. Wrong too about how Ukraine and Trumps stupid phone call will get him kicked out of office. I could go on and on just repeating things that Jimmy Dore, Caitlin, Consortium News, Max Blumenthal said because everything they said was true. Not true sounding like an opinion but factually correct. You say you've taken apart some of their stories before, maybe you have but I can't remember you doing so. You've taken down some of my opinions and I often gave you props, but Caitlin's or Robert Parry's, I can't recall.
... an essential element of this story being impossible, we cannot take seriously the other elements that are before us ... Thierry Meyssan

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Re: My sources vs. yours

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 30 Nov 2019, 16:09

How can you discern what the facts are when almost 100% of your news diet is opinion? Let’s be clear - I’m not stating that it contains no facts, but you willingly only consume news in the context of someone selectively cherrypicking facts in order to bring readers around to a specific point.

Every one of your sources is a polemicist, weaving together a larger narrative from piece to piece. One of the best ways to spot a polemicist is when their opening gambit is to cast doubt on any non-polemic news sources. It is the exact same trick Fox News has employed for decades. You have fallen for it as surely as any Fox viewer has - and ultimately have given in to a similar opinion ecosystem. Substitute the names Tucker, Hannity and Alex Jones for Caitlin, Jimmy Dore and Cenk Uygar and it is all the same thing.
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Re: My sources vs. yours

Postby Jimbo » 30 Nov 2019, 17:38

Interesting and I appreciate your thoughtful and polite response. You almost had me.

What I am learning about recently via my bevy of polemicists is this notion of a narrative. I am seeing more and more mentions of narrative. Perhaps it is thanks to Caitlin's many recent essays about it that are spreading to the alt community. It all started, of course, I am learning, with Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent." I suppose Chomsky is another polemicist. From your eclectic source list above I chose Ryan Lizza to read because I had heard his name, couldn't recall the context but gave him a shot. The New Yorker article I read by him was a profile of a Russian journalist who described how hard it was to be a journalist in Russia today because of media suppression there. This story went against the narrative I have been reading about which says that everything you have heard about media in Russia is wrong and that it is far more flourishing than we are being told. I went and Googled "press freedom Russia" and came to a Reporters Without Borders annual ranking and Russia was near the bottom. I ask you, Davey, should I believe RWB? A trick I am learning from my alt reporters is to check the "about" page and who the sponsors are. High up on the list is the National Endowment For Democracy, famous in my circles as a regime changing CIA front. The Lizza article was bullshit to me now, a hit piece on Russia. See, Davey, almost always these days whenever I read a "non-polemicist" article there is almost always something in there which tingles my Jimbo. I don't know about Hannity and Carlson, pretty sure I wouldn't like their schtick, but Jimmy Dore, Caitlin and co. seem to be a most truthful, factual and peace oriented circle jerk of polemicists.
... an essential element of this story being impossible, we cannot take seriously the other elements that are before us ... Thierry Meyssan

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Re: My sources vs. yours

Postby Jimbo » 30 Nov 2019, 18:24

I think it is ironic that a Russian English language newspaper can rag against the "Putin Regime" so blatantly while illustrating how this horribly put upon and harassed investigative reporter was ultimately pardoned and embraced by the same "regime." At the end I see the story originated with Bloomberg but I have to assume it is available in Russia. There is always something. You read it and tell me if there isn't something inside out about the presentation.
A Framed Reporter Suddenly Matters to Putin
Ivan Golunov is an unlikely central figure for such a potentially momentous story.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/06/ ... tin-a65962
... an essential element of this story being impossible, we cannot take seriously the other elements that are before us ... Thierry Meyssan

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Re: My sources vs. yours

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 30 Nov 2019, 19:42

Okay - I’m going to continue to suspend my “ignore” on you for this thread only - because at this point the only worthwhile conversation I feel that I can have with you on politics is about how to consume media.

So let’s talk about the circular route you just took to arrive back where you started;

First off - your assumption that Ryan Lizza ought to be vetted as an ongoing “source.” Is that really true? I certainly don’t look at him that way. I simply read an article by him. In this case, one about Obama’s current place in the political landscape. I don’t need to understand Lizza’s take on Russian press freedom to contextualize that article. Beyond that, I don’t think about Lizza until I see another article of his that interests me. Then I can sniff out any agenda in whatever piece I’m reading / if any.

2. Tell the truth... when you Googled Lizza you searched on “Ryan Lizza Russia” didn’t you? You’ve made the Russia issue such an article of faith that you actually use it to make determinations on everything. Why is that your central conviction - and who made it so? Even if the argument is correct, there’s something very wrong about your absurd commitment to it. If information can be dismissed solely on the basis of challenging your priors, you’ve made a decision to put them above truth.

3. The Lizza piece on the Russian press was actually an interview with Dimitri Skorobutov, wasn’t it? So essentially it was Skorobutov’s perspective. Any decent consumer of information would take it as such. But you were looking for reasons to dismiss Lizza as a ‘source’ (which is almost as bad as thinking of any journalist as a source).

Essentially what you are doing is constructing your own propaganda bubble. But don’t listen to me. I’m not Russia-friendly enough to be a source.
Last edited by Davey the Fat Boy on 30 Nov 2019, 22:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My sources vs. yours

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 30 Nov 2019, 20:06

P.S. You’ve taken the exact wrong lesson from Chomsky. Yes, I would call him a polemicist- and I think he’d agree. He’s not a journalist. That’s not his stick and trade. He is a cultural analyst and commentator. Nothing wrong with being that, but you shouldn’t get your news from Noam Chomsky. You should consider his insight on what the news means.

The useful insight of Manufacturing Consent was that status quo bias can be misused for political ends. That should always be back of mind whenever any of us sorts through the news. But there’s also a pretty large ‘when-all-you-have-is-a-hammer-everything-looks-like-a-nail’ factor at play circling both the left and the right’s independent news ecosystems these days - and it is rendering a lot of folks easy marks for propaganda.
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Re: My sources vs. yours

Postby Jimbo » 30 Nov 2019, 22:57

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
2. Tell the truth... when you Googled Liza you searched on “Ryan Lizza Russia” didn’t you?


Swear to god I didn't. Either it was a coincidence or that Lizza often writes negatively about Russia - and that may be the context where I heard his name. But yes, it was about that same Russian journalist, a terrible tale of woe. But my mind was hardened. I had just heard that afternoon on the Nixon and Stranahan podcast, a very entertaining political talk show, about how there are plenty of anti-Putin media outlets. And I linked to that that Moscow Times hit piece, I mean article as evidence that this was so.

Nonetheless, I will take your way of selecting media more seriously and ensure I daily consume some ideas from outside my bubble.
... an essential element of this story being impossible, we cannot take seriously the other elements that are before us ... Thierry Meyssan