Climate Change. Real or hoax?

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks

Do you believe the Al Gore climate change narrative?

No
2
9%
Somewhat
0
No votes
Entirely
21
91%
 
Total votes: 23

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Hepcat
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Hepcat » 02 Sep 2019, 16:05

Robert wrote:
Hepcat wrote: And may I remind you that without a healthy level of skepticism in general, you swiftly find yourself among this class of "useful idiots" to which you referred?

:?:


And equally, with it in the company of Holocaust deniers, Flat earth scientists and Moon landing 'debunkers'


Not that there's any linkage among those things, but since you prefer mudslinging to rational argument, carry on.

Robert wrote:You see, you are not challenging anything. Thousands of scientists agree about this but Hepcat from Hicksville, just says no, it is not so.

Well, that's them challenged, see how they'll respond to that!


Be interesting to see how they respond if and when their funding is cut though, won't it?

;)

Incidentally, do all you fellows from Dumberdam try so hard to be jackasses or is it just you?

:?:
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Robert
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Robert » 03 Sep 2019, 08:07

Hepcat wrote:
Robert wrote:
Hepcat wrote: And may I remind you that without a healthy level of skepticism in general, you swiftly find yourself among this class of "useful idiots" to which you referred?

:?:


And equally, with it in the company of Holocaust deniers, Flat earth scientists and Moon landing 'debunkers'


Not that there's any linkage among those things, but since you prefer mudslinging to rational argument, carry on.

Robert wrote:You see, you are not challenging anything. Thousands of scientists agree about this but Hepcat from Hicksville, just says no, it is not so.

Well, that's them challenged, see how they'll respond to that!


Be interesting to see how they respond if and when their funding is cut though, won't it?

;)

Incidentally, do all you fellows from Dumberdam try so hard to be jackasses or is it just you?

:?:


The - to most- obvious linkage here is that they all attract ' independent' spirits that, weaponed with the debris that washed upon the internet sewer shores, believe they hold credible arguments against the moon landing, the holocaust or, indeed, man-made global warming.

There are no real arguments they and you bring up but hearsay, randomly picked up to fit their own narrative. A favourite tool they like to use is downright discrediting - in the case of climate change - scientists with suggestions they must be paid by some lobby.

It's suspicion, the favourite tactic used by the dimwitted to come over as clever.

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Jimbo
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Jimbo » 03 Sep 2019, 08:45

Image

Are you down with the Extinction Rebellion?
Cold War Number One: 70 years of daily national stupidity. Cold War Number Two: Still in its youth, but just as stupid. - William Blum

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Hightea
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Hightea » 04 Sep 2019, 15:18

Hepcat wrote:
Moreover, there's the logical principle known as Occam's Razor, i.e. "The simplest explanation for an event is the best one barring compelling evidence that such is not the case." Well between about 1300 and 1870 the Earth experienced what's now called the Little Ice Age. It's perhaps why the Vikings abandoned Greenland around the year 1400 although this theory has now been questioned. It is though why we read about Dutchmen skating on canals back a couple hundred years ago. (That trick doesn't work very well these days even in late January.) And it's why Napoleon's army froze its ass off retreating from Russia in the early nineteenth century. So the simplest explanation for any global warming these days is that the Earth is still recovering from the Little Ice Age and reverting to the climate of the Medieval Warm Period.

What are you drinking up there in Toronto? Do I have to send Mr Fox on you my furry friend.

Image


Your going to throw Occam's Razor at me? Actually I'll throw it right back at you the easiest explanation for the rapid increase in global climate change is that man is speeding this along. Hence why the scientific community agrees. The idea that you and Jimbo think the majority of scientists are in it for the money and funding and not to find the truth is ridiculous. I get it yes there are plenty of shady scientists but I'm sorry the majority of them are in it for the science and facts not falsehood and lies. This is the same BS as we didn't land on the moon.

In regards to the little ice age it wasn't a global event just a regional and it happened over a much longer time frame. Secondly, nice that you read about that the deep water in oceans are still recovering from the little ice age, that doesn't mean the earth is recovering from the little ice age, just deep ocean water. Secondly, if we were still recovering from the little ice age (which may have a small hand in it) it would be slow but what is happening now is happening fast.


Hepcat wrote:Other than sunspot activity, why these changes in the Earth's climate over time? Well for one thing the Earth's orbit isn't entirely stable. It's more elliptical some years/decades/centuries than others. Worse yet it goes and wobbles a bit around its axis. Very inconvenient. Then there's the phenomenon called geomagnetic reversal when the earth's poles switch around (perhaps due to the sloshing around of Earth's core but who the hell knows). There have been 183 such reversals over the last 83 million years or so I've heard. Nasty those. The last one resulted in most of the Arabian peninsula becoming a desert.
What does this have to do with current climate change? There is talk about magnetic north moving lately but the theory on geomagnetic reversal is now believed that it takes centuries for it to happen and it would be obvious when its happening. Yes it does happen to do with the Earth's metallic core moving around.

We can give several reasons that would also cause climate change but that is no longer the issue. The issue is what can we do to maybe stop or reduce effects from climate change. Is your stance to do nothing? Should we stop conserving gas and stop finding cleaner ways to produce energy? what is the bad thing about that? maybe we should go back to the 70's and start dumping toxic waste again, polluting our rivers, continue to let CO2 emissions to go up(by the way its the highest its been in 3 million years), keep tearing down the rain forest for cattle and palm trees. Should we continue to build on the coasts and not have those coastal buildings be up to snuff with new codes so they are at least protected from future storms? SO your against wind power and solar panels? I know your not a big business guy but it seems you want to ignore climate change and let industry do what it wants. Really you believe big business over scientists?

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Mike Boom
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Mike Boom » 04 Sep 2019, 18:59

Image

Luckily the weather outside Jimbo's back door remains fine, so nothing to see here folks, just a hoax.
Last edited by Mike Boom on 04 Sep 2019, 23:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Hepcat
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Hepcat » 04 Sep 2019, 21:24

Robert wrote:The - to most- obvious linkage here is that they all attract ' independent' spirits that, weaponed with the debris that washed upon the internet sewer shores, believe they hold credible arguments against the moon landing, the holocaust or, indeed, man-made global warming.


A spurious connection at best. You're making the all too common error of lumping things together just because you don't like any of them. But they're all entirely different questions/subjects.

Robert wrote:There are no real arguments they and you bring up but hearsay, randomly picked up to fit their own narrative.


If you want to define it that way, but then everything anyone discusses is hearsay (actually specifically) picked to fit their own individual narrative. Following your logic then, we shouldn't discuss anything - not even music.

:geek:
Last edited by Hepcat on 04 Sep 2019, 21:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Hepcat
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Hepcat » 04 Sep 2019, 21:36

Hightea wrote:What are you drinking up there in Toronto? Do I have to send Mr Fox on you my furry friend.

Image


I've not had to bother with the mangy mutt for a number of months now. He went and whizzed on The MAN's Beatles' White Album LP (some sort of editorial comment I guess) and has been consigned to the doghouse out back ever since.

;)
Last edited by Hepcat on 04 Sep 2019, 22:12, edited 2 times in total.
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Hepcat
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Hepcat » 04 Sep 2019, 22:06

Hightea wrote:Your going to throw Occam's Razor at me? Actually I'll throw it right back at you the easiest explanation for the rapid increase in global climate change is that man is speeding this along. Hence why the scientific community agrees.


So why then was the bouncing back from the Little Ice Age precisely the conventional wisdom in the scientific community until self-admitted socialist and advocate of world government Maurice Strong's 1992 Earth Summit? That's when Strong's acolytes realized that not only could the spectre of global warming be used to pry wealth from the Western economies and re-distribute it to their pet third world economies (including China), but there was also big money to be gained for themselves in the form of research grants by beating the global warming drum.

Hightea wrote: The idea that you and Jimbo think the majority of scientists are in it for the money and funding and not to find the truth is ridiculous. I get it yes there are plenty of shady scientists but I'm sorry the majority of them are in it for the science and facts not falsehood and lies.


Well Richard Smith, former editor of the British Medical Journal, put it this way "Most scientific studies are wrong, and they are wrong because scientists are interested in funding and careers rather than truth."

And have you not heard of the "verifiability crisis" when it comes to scientific testing?

:?:
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Robert
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Robert » 04 Sep 2019, 23:02

Hepcat wrote:
Hightea wrote:Your going to throw Occam's Razor at me? Actually I'll throw it right back at you the easiest explanation for the rapid increase in global climate change is that man is speeding this along. Hence why the scientific community agrees.


So why then was the bouncing back from the Little Ice Age precisely the conventional wisdom in the scientific community until self-admitted socialist and advocate of world government Maurice Strong's 1992 Earth Summit? That's when Strong's acolytes realized that not only could the spectre of global warming be used to pry wealth from the Western economies and re-distribute it to their pet third world economies (including China), but there was also big money to be gained for themselves in the form of research grants by beating the global warming drum.

Hightea wrote: The idea that you and Jimbo think the majority of scientists are in it for the money and funding and not to find the truth is ridiculous. I get it yes there are plenty of shady scientists but I'm sorry the majority of them are in it for the science and facts not falsehood and lies.


Well Richard Smith, former editor of the British Medical Journal, put it this way "Most scientific studies are wrong, and they are wrong because scientists are interested in funding and careers father than truth."

And have you not heard of the "verifiability crisis" when it comes to scientific testing?

:?:


Is that also valid for the 2% of scientists that dispute man-made global warming?

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Jimbo
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Jimbo » 05 Sep 2019, 00:45

Mike Boom wrote:Image

Luckily the weather outside Jimbo's back door remains fine, so nothing to see here folks, just a hoax.


Yes, it's awful but it was a hurricane during hurricane season. That's what I tell myself.
Cold War Number One: 70 years of daily national stupidity. Cold War Number Two: Still in its youth, but just as stupid. - William Blum

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Hepcat
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Hepcat » 06 Sep 2019, 03:48

Robert wrote:
Hepcat wrote: Well Richard Smith, former editor of the British Medical Journal, put it this way "Most scientific studies are wrong, and they are wrong because scientists are interested in funding and careers rather than truth."

And have you not heard of the "verifiability crisis" when it comes to scientific testing?

:?:


Is that also valid for the 2% of scientists that dispute man-made global warming?


I don't see why it shouldn't. And it does of course also apply to that 2% figure since science is inevitably based upon limited sampling which is also sadly biased in all too many cases. Those of us who love math simply cringe.

;)
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Robert
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Robert » 06 Sep 2019, 09:11

Hepcat wrote:
Robert wrote:
Hepcat wrote: Well Richard Smith, former editor of the British Medical Journal, put it this way "Most scientific studies are wrong, and they are wrong because scientists are interested in funding and careers rather than truth."

And have you not heard of the "verifiability crisis" when it comes to scientific testing?

:?:


Is that also valid for the 2% of scientists that dispute man-made global warming?


I don't see why it shouldn't. And it does of course also apply to that 2% figure since science is inevitably based upon limited sampling which is also sadly biased in all too many cases. Those of us who love math simply cringe.

;)


Well, sampling is by definition limited. The question is if it is too limited. Your beloved mathematicians have developed methods that make it possible to calculate the number of samplings needed to get a good overall idea.

But it's clear, you treat this whole subject the same way others look at religion and you have simply chosen not to believe, based on the 2% scientists -biased, and heavily funded scientists I should say - that offer counter proof. Not that you believe in the proof as such but they are a rebellious minority so they must be right.

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Deebank
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Deebank » 06 Sep 2019, 09:42

Jimbo wrote:
Mike Boom wrote:Image

Luckily the weather outside Jimbo's back door remains fine, so nothing to see here folks, just a hoax.


Yes, it's awful but it was a hurricane during hurricane season. That's what I tell myself.


But what you have to ask yourself is if the increase in the frequency and ferocity of hurricanes in the last decade or so has anything to do with human activity.


A vast majority of independent research would suggest that this IS a factor while a small amount of research funded by organisations with a financial motive or a political axe to grind have challenged that view - but never come anywhere close to overturning it.

Why you chose to believe the shadowy capitalists with their self-interested motives' view rather than the experts is perhaps a reflection of the fucked up times we live in... Sadly.
I've been talking about writing a book - 25 years of TEFL - for a few years now. I've got it in me.

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Hightea
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Hightea » 06 Sep 2019, 14:39

Hepcat wrote:
Hightea wrote:Your going to throw Occam's Razor at me? Actually I'll throw it right back at you the easiest explanation for the rapid increase in global climate change is that man is speeding this along. Hence why the scientific community agrees.


So why then was the bouncing back from the Little Ice Age precisely the conventional wisdom in the scientific community until self-admitted socialist and advocate of world government Maurice Strong's 1992 Earth Summit? That's when Strong's acolytes realized that not only could the spectre of global warming be used to pry wealth from the Western economies and re-distribute it to their pet third world economies (including China), but there was also big money to be gained for themselves in the form of research grants by beating the global warming drum.

Hightea wrote: The idea that you and Jimbo think the majority of scientists are in it for the money and funding and not to find the truth is ridiculous. I get it yes there are plenty of shady scientists but I'm sorry the majority of them are in it for the science and facts not falsehood and lies.


Well Richard Smith, former editor of the British Medical Journal, put it this way "Most scientific studies are wrong, and they are wrong because scientists are interested in funding and careers rather than truth."

And have you not heard of the "verifiability crisis" when it comes to scientific testing?

:?:


Once again we are talking about 98% of scientist(or hell lets say that number is high how about 80%). You seem to be telling us that more than 75% of the scientific community are in it for the funding and all lie. I'm sorry that is about the silliest thing I've ever heard scientists are not Trump. You also haven't answered my question do you believe that currently the earth is getting warmer? I don't care who or what is causing it. If you don't believe the earth is currently getting warmer you need to get off your couch and travel. I'm fully aware of scientific testing and don't need to be schooled on the bullshit of some guy who thinks most scientific studies are wrong because of looking for funding. I would tend to think its more like some not most.

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Jimbo
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Jimbo » 06 Sep 2019, 15:44

Maybe the earth is getting a little warmer but again, go outside and see that the current climate is pretty nice. If the seas are creeping up on your shores better pull your buildings back a block. Storms getting stronger, make like the good little piggie who built his house from bricks. The weather climate is not a big problem, it's the political climate which is the biggest hindrance to fulfilling the eco-warriors demands for a carbon-free world, especially in the frightfully short time they say we have left before Collins Avenue is a shallow canal.
Cold War Number One: 70 years of daily national stupidity. Cold War Number Two: Still in its youth, but just as stupid. - William Blum

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Sneelock
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Sneelock » 06 Sep 2019, 15:55

this might seem off topic but I think this is as good a place as any to bring up this "Need For Chaos" study. this NYT writer referred to it in a column a couple days ago.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/04/opin ... chaos.html
while the NYT Guy is using this to discuss TRUMP supporters I think the implications of the study itself are a little bigger than that. (he links the study in the body of the article)I think the really striking thing about the study is that the divisions don't appear to be along ideological lines. the study seems to bear out that a lot of people who took these questionnaires basically want, more than anything else, to fuck up the status quo.

I think we see a lot of that in how this issue and other issues are discussed now. I think the NYT guy has a point in how evident this is in TRUMP supporters but hell, anybody who talks about any current affairs on the internet is going to recognize this behavior like their own face in a mirror.

people are so dissatisfied with how things are that they want to help the bottom fall out. that's the way it looks to me. I think climate denial as practiced on Ye Olde World Wide Webs fits right into this. it's chaos for the sake of chaos. it's something to do. that'll show YOU Mr. SmartyPants.
can you prove it didn't happen?

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Jimbo
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Jimbo » 06 Sep 2019, 16:45

It wasn't Russia? :o

I fantasize about a natural disaster wiping out most of humanity such that a small group of people can start all over.

I think society should be burned to the ground.

When I think about our political and social institutions, I cannot help thinking “just let them all burn.”

We cannot fix the problems in our social institutions, we need to tear them down and start over.

Sometimes I just feel like destroying beautiful things.


What a dumb survey. This asshole and his chaos theory is presenting just another neo-con, Hillary-loving, WAPO/MSNBC way to marginalize, to label, to categorize, to ostracize, to banish conspiracy guys like me and shut down the websites we visit. Well, fear not, for slowly but surely I can see websites I used to visit gone from YouTube, Google algorithms putting alternative views many pages back, iTunes no longer downloading previously available podcasts. You wanna cheer? Since Trump was elected I'll bet this guy was dying to see Trump in handcuffs for the crime of treason, for colluding with Putin. WRONG! You were the lunatics who believed that conspiracy theory and I contend it is the same mindset which is buying the climate change BS. Wake the fuck up and relax. The world is not coming to an end. The oceans will not hurt you. The hole in the ozone ... What the fuck happened to that? On the news constantly. Skin cancer? Wear the right grade sunshade? Same shit. :roll:
Cold War Number One: 70 years of daily national stupidity. Cold War Number Two: Still in its youth, but just as stupid. - William Blum

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Sneelock
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Sneelock » 06 Sep 2019, 17:56

You know what Jimbo, drop me a line when you get back from ULTRA-SUPERIOR LAND.
You used to be fun. Baby, you are a stone drag.
can you prove it didn't happen?

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Robert
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Robert » 06 Sep 2019, 20:35

For Jimbo, as I understand he can’t be everywhere to see it for himself



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Jimbo
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Re: Climate Change. Real or hoax?

Postby Jimbo » 07 Sep 2019, 03:04

Re above video: How come they stopped the video in September to show ice loss? You can only glimpse how in the winter the ice builds substantially back up. But at the end of summer naturally the ice cap will be at its minimum. Maybe it does indicate a trend of global warming but to make the fuss, the panic which climate change people are pushing is unnecessary. Let's calm the fuck down and do what humankind has always done and that is adapt. Remember when it was only kooky bible thumpers who said the end was neigh?
Cold War Number One: 70 years of daily national stupidity. Cold War Number Two: Still in its youth, but just as stupid. - William Blum