The wrong side of history

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Toby
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Re: The wrong side of history

Postby Toby » 16 Aug 2019, 12:03

One argument of the "wrong side of history" is the people killed during the Gordon riots of 1780, the single largest insurrection in the last 400 years. It has pretty much been forgotten because it was caused by anti catholic sentiment and invoked by mobs, but between 300 and 700 people died, in comparison to the Peterloo "massacre" where 18 died. People select certain incidents and correlate them selectively because it suits their narrative to do so.

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Re: The wrong side of history

Postby Deebank » 16 Aug 2019, 12:24

Toby wrote:One argument of the "wrong side of history" is the people killed during the Gordon riots of 1780, the single largest insurrection in the last 400 years. It has pretty much been forgotten because it was caused by anti catholic sentiment and invoked by mobs, but between 300 and 700 people died, in comparison to the Peterloo "massacre" where 18 died. People select certain incidents and correlate them selectively because it suits their narrative to do so.


That sounds a bit sneery - a mere 18. It's a massacre because they were peaceful unarmed protesters and their cause was a good one, no?
The cause is all important here. It is because the Peterloo martyrs are on the right side of history and the Gordon rioters aren't.

Sometimes it is that obvious.

I don't know much about the Gordon Riots but McLaren and Reid and that lot were always keen on 'King Mob' as a kind of anarchist construct (rather than the anti-catholic reality presumably).
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Toby
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Re: The wrong side of history

Postby Toby » 16 Aug 2019, 12:34

But the people killed by the Gordon riots have been forgotten too. Are they on the wrong side of history too?

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Re: The wrong side of history

Postby Deebank » 16 Aug 2019, 12:58

Toby wrote:But the people killed by the Gordon riots have been forgotten too. Are they on the wrong side of history too?


The riots were in response to the government's concessions to catholics weren't they (simplification probably)?
I think we can probably agree that they were on the wrong side of history.
I've been talking about writing a book - 25 years of TEFL - for a few years now. I've got it in me.

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Toby
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Re: The wrong side of history

Postby Toby » 16 Aug 2019, 13:15

This merely confirms my view that the "right" side of history is just a narrative that in time will be out of date and forgotten. To think that there is a continual, unchanged moral perspective of history where one can say "this was right" and "this was wrong" is doomed to failure. It changes all the time.

Napoleon was seen as the ultimate tyrant 200 years ago but some historians see him as the 'last great man of history', the last in a series of individuals stretching back to Julius Caesar and Alexander the Great, people who changed history themselves rather than "forces". Some people are willing to forgive Stalin and Mao their utterly heinous crimes because the country "progressed" in some way under them. Hopefully people in the future will see what lunacy this sort of perspective is.