The next UK Prime minister

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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The Modernist
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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby The Modernist » 23 Mar 2019, 11:24

Toby wrote:Caroline Lucas is beholden to no-one but her constituents and can pretty much say what she wants on any policy.

Plus her party are a one policy party.

So not a good choice then.


To dismiss a party whose focus is on the environment merely shows how much you misunderstand and undervalue the importance of it as an issue. Furthermore, the Green's have a whole series of policies on a whole range of issues, so your statement isn't even accurate.
All MPs should be beholden to their constituents, that's the way it's meant to work.

So not a very well thought out comment then.

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby Penk! » 23 Mar 2019, 11:28

Even if they are a one-policy party, that one policy is better than anything the Tories, Labour or Lib Dems have come up with of late!
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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby ever/never » 23 Mar 2019, 11:32

The idea that the Greens are a one-policy party died with the 1980s.

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby Fonz » 23 Mar 2019, 11:43

Is it that the perception is that they wouldn’t have the expertise to run a country, beyond setting up a few recycling bins, and subsidising Tofu farms?
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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby The Modernist » 23 Mar 2019, 11:54

Fonz wrote:Is it that the perception is that they wouldn’t have the expertise to run a country, beyond setting up a few recycling bins, and subsidising Tofu farms?


No doubt coming from the same people who think a woman's place is in the home and praise 'coloured' people for their natural rhythm.

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby Deebank » 23 Mar 2019, 11:58

They seem to be doing ok in Brighton.
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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby The Prof » 23 Mar 2019, 11:59

Plus the Greens fight every election on an agreed party manifesto (like all other political parties) so she can't "say what she wants on any policy".
Breathtaking ignorance.

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby Fonz » 23 Mar 2019, 12:19

The Prof wrote:Plus the Greens fight every election on an agreed party manifesto (like all other political parties) so she can't "say what she wants on any policy".
Breathtaking ignorance.


The idea that politicians can be held to their manifesto, in 2019, seems naive.
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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby The Modernist » 23 Mar 2019, 12:29

The Prof wrote:Plus the Greens fight every election on an agreed party manifesto (like all other political parties) so she can't "say what she wants on any policy".
Breathtaking ignorance.


As is the characterisation of the environment as some narrow single-issue. Forming a party to bring back capital punishment would be a single issue because it has no tangible relevance to other policy issues. The environment affects the kind of economy we have, the kind of trade, housing policy, transport policy and infrastructure, the whole way we model society basically.

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby Toby » 23 Mar 2019, 12:35

If the Greens were a significant electoral force, in that they regularly came second or third in elections, then Caroline Lucas might be a decent choice. She is thoughtful and intelligent, but given that she is her party's only MP, she is not exposed to the politics of a major party in the way that virtually all other MPs are. She doesn't have to compromise or ally herself to others in her party in order to achieve power. She represents her constituents, which is what an MP does.

I'm not casting doubt on her ability as an MP, but the perception of the Greens is of a one policy party across the UK and they simply don't have an electoral presence in many places.

I suspect that might change in time if environmental concerns become more significant.

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby The Modernist » 23 Mar 2019, 12:43

Toby wrote:She is thoughtful and intelligent, but given that she is her party's only MP, she is not exposed to the politics of a major party in the way that virtually all other MPs are. She doesn't have to compromise or ally herself to others in her party in order to achieve power. .


And what does all that produce?
Theresa May. :lol:
Toby wrote:I suspect that might change in time if environmental concerns become more significant.


You don't need the 'if' in that sentence btw.

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby Toby » 23 Mar 2019, 13:03

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Par ... _and_Wales

Worth noting that the Green party polled 15% of the vote in the 1989 European elections. They've never bettered it.

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby Toby » 24 Mar 2019, 08:08

Back to the topic...

Difficult to say. There seems to be a growing consensus over Jeremy Hunt as the future Tory PM with Michael Gove not far behind. With the Tories though t is never the favourite who wins.

I see no Labour candidate as Corbyn is too firmly entrenched.

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby Powehi » 24 Mar 2019, 09:29

Few points you're missing...

Deebank wrote:
Ken Clarke - zero support in the party.



Maybe not, but then neither did Churchill before Chamberlain's trip to Munich. Not that Ken Clarke is in the same league as Churchill; or likely to become short-term PM for that matter. As "Father of the House" - i.e. the oldest sitting MP (if only by dint of having taken his seat in the chamber about 20 minutes before Dennis Skinner) he does however command a great deal of cross-bench respect.

Deebank wrote:
David Milliband - not an MP, and lost to Ed last time - no support in the party.



You assume that the next election is going to be another two-way fight between the Tories and Labour.

I disagree.

This whole Brexit shambles has created millions of disaffected voters. Come election time, these people are likely to turn on their sitting MPs and offer a vast voting base third parties are going to do their damndest to appeal to/exploit.

At the more - for want of a better word - "acceptable" end of the spectrum, you've got The Independent Group - who could easily parachute DM into a safe seat and run him as leader. It's happened before with various ministers and at least one PM (Alec Douglas Hume - although that's hardly a ringing endorsement of the practice).

There's also however many disaffected Labour MPs Tom Watson might be able to muster and take with him should he strike out on his own.

At the less palatable end of the spectrum are demagogues like Farage and his Brexit party. In the toxic sludge at the very bottom of the pond are so-called "populist" racist nutjobs like Tommy Robinson.


Deebank wrote:
Chuckles - not a member of the Labour Party or indeed any party as yet.

Tom Watson - no support in the party -



See above comments re TIG.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Cameron's stupidity in announcing a referendum before he and his aides carried out any kind of due diligence or put even the most basic checks and balances in place has created horrific social divisions beyond even Thatcher's wildest dreams.

The resultant fall out is going to poison the UK for years and ain't going to end well.

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby Toby » 24 Mar 2019, 11:44

At the same time Brexit has been a very British crisis.

France, which is meant to represent stability, has a crisis with 13 consecutive weekends of violent clashes in Paris. True, the French are generally more truculent and more inclined to strikes and protest, but to think that it is only the UK in crisis is naive.

For all the hand wringing about Brexit, apart from Jo Cox's tragic murder, there has been little or no trouble. Compare that, to say, the Miners Strike.

Of course, we don't know the potential fallout yet. My fear is that a stalling or cancelling of Brexit will create a huge backlash that I suspect would take down both main political parties.

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby yomptepi » 24 Mar 2019, 12:07

Toby wrote:At the same time Brexit has been a very British crisis.

France, which is meant to represent stability, has a crisis with 13 consecutive weekends of violent clashes in Paris. True, the French are generally more truculent and more inclined to strikes and protest, but to think that it is only the UK in crisis is naive.

For all the hand wringing about Brexit, apart from Jo Cox's tragic murder, there has been little or no trouble. Compare that, to say, the Miners Strike.

Of course, we don't know the potential fallout yet. My fear is that a stalling or cancelling of Brexit will create a huge backlash that I suspect would take down both main political parties.


i think that is a popular perception, but in reality just look at the losers who voted to leave. They cannot even get 50 people to march. I very much doubt that the sort of neanderthal half wit who fell for all the leave nonsense has the wherewithal to make a fuss. They will just shrug their shoulders and get back to watching Jeremy Kyle. We must not worry about what we think they might do. They will do what they have always done.

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby The Modernist » 24 Mar 2019, 14:47

Most of them will for sure, but we live in such extremist times so you worry about a fringe element who may feel empowered by the toxic atmosphere. Look at the Jo Cox tragedy or New Zealand last week. We can't afford to be complacent.

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby The Prof » 28 Mar 2019, 09:10

It was looking like a straight fight between Gove and Johnson yesterday. I can't think which is worse.

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby Powehi » 28 Mar 2019, 09:19

The Prof wrote:
It was looking like a straight fight between Gove and Johnson yesterday. I can't think which is worse.




Corbyn

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby yomptepi » 28 Mar 2019, 14:15

caramba wrote:
The Prof wrote:
It was looking like a straight fight between Gove and Johnson yesterday. I can't think which is worse.




Corbyn


Of course. He is a terrible , terrible man.
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