The next UK Prime minister

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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The Prof
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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby The Prof » 17 Aug 2019, 13:06

I think it's based on the fact that he would have more support from MPs across the house.

Though I don't know why Powehi thinks Corbyn as caretaker PM is laughable. The leader of the second biggest party should put together a government in a vote of no confidence.

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby Powehi » 17 Aug 2019, 14:35

The Prof wrote:I think it's based on the fact that he would have more support from MPs across the house.

Though I don't know why Powehi thinks Corbyn as caretaker PM is laughable. The leader of the second biggest party should put together a government in a vote of no confidence.


Well, yes, but only in cases where the leader of the opposition who calls the vote of no confidence can him/herself command sufficient confidence to form a majority. This doesn't seem to be the case with Corbyn and his risible power grab.

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby The Prof » 17 Aug 2019, 15:41

Claiming that he can't command a majority as a reason for not supporting him to get a majority is a pretty dumb thing to do.
This from the FibDems who said they would do anything to stop No Deal

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby Powehi » 18 Aug 2019, 09:13

Deebank wrote:History repeating itself you say?
:?
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Well, it worked out fine last time!


Surely Swinson's refusal to countenance supporting a weak, indecisive leader who is unable to unite his own party and whose name also begins with C is evidence the Lib Dems are doing all they can to avoid repeating history.

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby Copehead » 18 Aug 2019, 22:13

It is instructive to see how deep the LibDem, Funny Tinge and Tory rebel commitment to stopping No Deal is.

So deep that even having to call Corbyn PM for about 5 weeks so he can get a A50 extension and call a general election is beyond their capacity to bear.

What a load of absolute charlatans.

I suppose we shouldn't be surprised at the LibDems selling out everything they claim to believe in for potential crumbs from the Tory table but their cynicism is absolutely breathtaking.

The Tory "rebels" have always been all mouth and no backbone and the ex-Labour scumbags like Woodward,Field, Gapes, Hoey and Mann were always going to do whatever it took to hold on to the seats they are squatting on for a little longer before they get turfed out.

But I say again, the breath taking cyncicism of these absolute cunts is in some ways impressive.
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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby Diamond Dog » 27 Aug 2019, 12:23

Well well well...

https://www.foundrychambers.com/on-sund ... psq5U3OUbQ

On Sunday 11 August 2019, Rose Slowe was interviewed by Richard Foster on BBC Radio 5 about Article 50 and the legality of a no-deal Brexit.

It is Rose Slowe’s contention that, without a further Act of Parliament specifically authorising Brexit in one form or another, the United Kingdom cannot leave the European Union as a matter of law and the European Union will not be able to expel it.

The following is an extract from Rose Slowe’s BBC interview.

What does Article 50 actually mean in terms of leaving the European Union?

The Article 50 process is that which has been laid down by the EU in its Treaties setting out the way in which a Member State can leave the Union. There are a number of sub provisions in Article 50. They specify, quite importantly, that a Member State can only leave in accordance with a decision that is taken in a constitutionally compliant manner. So, for example, an authoritarian leader could not take a Member State out of the European Union in breach of the domestic constitution; withdrawal has to be done at the Member State level in a constitutionally compliant way.

Article 50 also provides that the leaving Member State must notify the European Union of its intention to leave, which the United Kingdom did; that was the Article 50 notice issued. Then, after 2 years, if these steps have been completed, the EU Treaties cease to apply to that Member State, they have effectively left the Union, unless, and this has happened in the UK’s case, the European Union decides to extend that period. This period has been provided for so that the Member State which is leaving can negotiate a withdrawal agreement with the EU.

So, it has to come down to Parliament passing a law saying that the United Kingdom can leave the European Union?

Yes, in the United Kingdom’s case, because a fundamental principle of the UK’s unwritten constitution is that Parliament is sovereign. We had the Supreme Court look at this issue in the Miller litigation and rule that it was Parliament – our elected legislature – that brought us into the EU with the 1972 European Communities Act and so it can only be Parliament, and not a Government or Prime Minister, that can take us out of the EU in accordance with the constitutional principle of parliamentary sovereignty. That is specific to the UK’s constitution; it has to be Parliament that legislates to take us out of the European Union.

What would happen if, as has been mooted, Boris Johnson suspends parliament to enable the Brexit process to take place?

He simply cannot do that as a matter of law. The Supreme Court has already held that the Government alone cannot bring the country out of the EU, it has to be by an Act of Parliament. So, any attempt by the Government to do that would not be legally effective, they just do not have the power.

Does this mean we are less likely to leave the European Union on 31 October?

Unless there is an Act of Parliament authorising a no-deal Brexit, or Brexit on the terms of a withdrawal agreement, legally the United Kingdom will not be leaving the European Union. On my interpretation of the constitution and EU Treaties, Brexit will not take effect without a further Act of Parliament authorising it in one form or another.

Can the European Union actually throw the UK out if they decide that they have had enough with everything?

A founding principle of the European Union is that it shows deference to Member State’s national constitutions, this is a premise of EU law. Indeed, the need for a constitutionally compliant exit is specifically provided for in Article 50. So, if we had our Supreme Court determine that we require a further Act of Parliament in order to leave the European Union in a constitutional manner, the EU could not expel the United Kingdom if to do so would be in breach of our domestic constitutional requirements.

Even the European Union’s most sever sanctioning mechanisms that can be deployed against a Member State found to be in breach of the Union’s founding values does not allow it to expel that Member State. The EU simply does not have the power to kick out a Member State, it has to be the Member State’s decision to leave in one way or another and this decision has to be a constitutionally compliant one.

So, without a law passed by Parliament, and without the European Union having the jurisdiction to throw the United Kingdom out of the Union, the UK will just be left in a state of limbo?

Yes, we would simply remain a Member State. It is even arguable that the Article 50 notice issued would lapse and cease to be of effect as it has to be interpreted as being subject to the condition that it would be made effective by an Act of Parliament down the line; it was a conditional notice and if these conditions are not met it would just lapse and the UK would continue to retain its EU membership.
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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby The Prof » 28 Aug 2019, 10:33

Diamond Dog wrote:Unless there is an Act of Parliament authorising a no-deal Brexit, or Brexit on the terms of a withdrawal agreement, legally the United Kingdom will not be leaving the European Union.


That would seem to be the important bit.

It seems to be the opinion of one law firm though, How much weight do they have?

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby Powehi » 28 Aug 2019, 11:20

Not enough to stop Johnson going for the nuclear option it seems

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... ation-live

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby The Prof » 28 Aug 2019, 12:23

yet a mere 2 months ago it was

“blindingly obvious” that the new Conservative prime minister will not be able to suspend parliament to push through a no-deal Brexit"

according to John Bercow

"Andrea Leadsom and Boris Johnson are also among those who have said they would not pursue such an option in order to take the UK out of the EU without a deal on 31 October."

We live in strange times

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ent-bercow

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby Geezee » 28 Aug 2019, 12:29

We've given up and are in the process of leaving the country.
I have vitriol in equal measure for all Tories, Lib Dems and Labourists who enabled this to happen. Which yes, I'm aware, means pretty much everyone, and is not particularly helpful or probably fair.
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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby Jimbo » 29 Aug 2019, 07:12

Cold War Number One: 70 years of daily national stupidity. Cold War Number Two: Still in its youth, but just as stupid. - William Blum

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby Deebank » 04 Sep 2019, 10:09

Blistering stuff from John Crace:


This was just the final humiliation in a day full of them. There are shitshows and there are shitshows. But the afternoon’s was something else. If there have been worse performances from a prime minister at the dispatch box in the last five years, no one could remember them. Much more of this and letters will be piling up in the 1922 Committee demanding the return of Theresa May. This was the day Boris Johnson was stripped bare. Exposed as the Great Pretender. A mere carapace of vaulting ambition, which o’erleaps itself and falls on th’other.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/03/clown-prince-johnson-cowers-in-the-face-of-the-rebel-alliance

The sooner the lying shithead is history the better.
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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby The Prof » 04 Sep 2019, 10:35

Excellent.

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby Rorschach » 04 Sep 2019, 14:57

Geezee wrote:We've given up and are in the process of leaving the country.
I have vitriol in equal measure for all Tories, Lib Dems and Labourists who enabled this to happen. Which yes, I'm aware, means pretty much everyone, and is not particularly helpful or probably fair.


I'm really sorry to hear that.
I'm sorry for you, for all the people in your position, but also for all the people who really don't want you to have to feel like this.

Good luck anyway.
Bugger off.

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby Positive Passion » 04 Sep 2019, 20:22

Oh the irony that the fixed term patliament legislation prevents the Tories calling an election.

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby northernsky » 06 Sep 2019, 07:04

Hmmm. Keeping an audience waiting for an hour and then delivering this?
It took Boris Yeltsin a year or two to get to the state of Boris Johnson after six weeks.



How can someone so unworthy capture the premiership of, more or less, the most mature democracy?

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby Positive Passion » 06 Sep 2019, 07:42

northernsky wrote:Hmmm. Keeping an audience waiting for an hour and then delivering this?
It took Boris Yeltsin a year or two to get to the state of Boris Johnson after six weeks.



How can someone so unworthy capture the premiership of, more or less, the most mature democracy?


The forces of conservatism are very strong, and very resilient.

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby The Prof » 06 Sep 2019, 11:05

As an after-dinner speaker he's been doing this for years and had the audience in stitches.

I think it's only beginning to dawn on him that he's in an adult world now and not in a room of pissed bankers.

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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby Belle Lettre » 06 Sep 2019, 13:50

Off his tits I'd say
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Re: The next UK Prime minister

Postby Deebank » 07 Sep 2019, 13:09

If Johnson resigns - his only route to an early election now - JC gets to form the next government.

Of course there is the question of how much rebel alliance support he can call upon, but they may be willing to offer conditional short term support to avoid crashing out.

What other scenarios are there?
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