Do we need to talk about Liam ?

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Copehead
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Re: Do we need to talk about Liam ?

Postby Copehead » 09 Feb 2019, 10:25

Lord Rother wrote:
It is like wanting praise for being a Neo-nazi who got over it or a sex offender who never reoffended.


It is absolutely nothing like either of those.

He didn’t actually do anything.


Yes he did, by his own admission he walked around for a week with a cosh looking to provoke a Black guy into a fight so he could kill him.

That is actively pursuing an aim, he didn't lie in bed fantasising about it he went out and roamed the streets looking to try and kill a Black guy.

And now he is apparently a victim to people like you for being brave, being honest and starting a debate.

As I said I can't imagine what debate he has started - perhaps how cuntish does a celebrity have to be before they aren't brave and honest.
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Re: Do we need to talk about Liam ?

Postby Lord Rother » 09 Feb 2019, 10:40

If he’d actually wanted to kill a black guy and had it in him to do so he could / would have done. But he didn’t.

I guess it’s difficult to see the difference between that and an actual sex offender who didn’t reoffend but I reckon you can do it if you try really hard.

Has a single person here spoken of him as being a victim? I must be too thick to have picked up on that.

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Re: Do we need to talk about Liam ?

Postby Copehead » 09 Feb 2019, 17:40

Lord Rother wrote:If he’d actually wanted to kill a black guy and had it in him to do so he could / would have done. But he didn’t.


I imagine finding a Black guy in Northern Ireland in the 70s may have been harder than you think, but perhaps Neeson was counting on that

Has a single person here spoken of him as being a victim? I must be too thick to have picked up on that.


No that was his hard working PR team rather than anyone here, no one here is stupid enough to think he is a brave victim who has started an important conversation surely.

Apart from Goat Boy who appears to have done that.
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Re: Do we need to talk about Liam ?

Postby Powehi » 11 Feb 2019, 09:46

Despite all the kerfuffle, Neeson's most recent movie has just taken a very respectable US$10 million on its opening weekend. THere's no such thing as bad publicity and all that...

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Re: Do we need to talk about Liam ?

Postby Jeemo » 11 Feb 2019, 11:03

caramba wrote:Despite all the kerfuffle, Neeson's most recent movie has just taken a very respectable US$10 million on its opening weekend. THere's no such thing as bad publicity and all that...


Its his lowest opening for a film in 9 years
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Re: Do we need to talk about Liam ?

Postby The Modernist » 11 Feb 2019, 11:54

Yeah that's not good for an opening weekend.

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Re: Do we need to talk about Liam ?

Postby The Modernist » 11 Feb 2019, 12:09

Copehead wrote:
Lord Rother wrote:
It is like wanting praise for being a Neo-nazi who got over it or a sex offender who never reoffended.


It is absolutely nothing like either of those.

He didn’t actually do anything.


Yes he did, by his own admission he walked around for a week with a cosh looking to provoke a Black guy into a fight so he could kill him.

That is actively pursuing an aim, he didn't lie in bed fantasising about it he went out and roamed the streets looking to try and kill a Black guy.

And now he is apparently a victim to people like you for being brave, being honest and starting a debate.

As I said I can't imagine what debate he has started - perhaps how cuntish does a celebrity have to be before they aren't brave and honest.


This is all a fuss about nothing. His remarks were clumsy and probably ill-advised, but it was clear he was describing the irrational choices and behaviour you can make if you're in the situation of having someone close to you hurt in this way. It shouldn't even be a debate and wouldn't be were it not for the facile and hollow rush to judgement of social media.

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Re: Do we need to talk about Liam ?

Postby Powehi » 11 Feb 2019, 12:36

Intersting take on Neeson's continued bankability below;

https://screenrant.com/cold-pursuit-lia ... kend-2010/

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Re: Do we need to talk about Liam ?

Postby Penk! » 11 Feb 2019, 12:49

Well exactly. The new film hasn't done great but it's the law of diminishing returns. The people who liked Taken are probably starting to roll their eyes now he seems to be going for an eighth or ninth rehash of that formula and people who didn't like it to begin with were already completely uninterested.

I think most people recognise Neeson's comments for what they were, a discussion of a mistake he made when young and soon regretted, rather than some kind of evidence that he is an Evil Nazi Who Wants To Bring Back Slavery And Apartheid. The biggest problem is that the idiots who get all het up about it and want to ban him from ever doing anything ever again kick up a big shitstorm that distracts from actual issues that are actually happening now in actual places to actual people.
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Re: Do we need to talk about Liam ?

Postby Goat Boy » 11 Feb 2019, 13:51

PENK wrote:I think most people recognise Neeson's comments for what they were, a discussion of a mistake he made when young and soon regretted, rather than some kind of evidence that he is an Evil Nazi Who Wants To Bring Back Slavery And Apartheid. The biggest problem is that the idiots who get all het up about it and want to ban him from ever doing anything ever again kick up a big shitstorm that distracts from actual issues that are actually happening now in actual places to actual people.


I suspect you're right but those voices have increasing influence today I think.

It's symptomatic of a very creepy kind of moralising you get these days, particularly on the modern left and which finds its natural home in that arena of virtue signalling outrage Twitter. It's creepified even further by the fact that it's become even more fundamentalist, making thoughts themselves sinful.
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Re: Do we need to talk about Liam ?

Postby Diamond Dog » 11 Feb 2019, 15:37

Goat Boy wrote:
PENK wrote:I think most people recognise Neeson's comments for what they were, a discussion of a mistake he made when young and soon regretted, rather than some kind of evidence that he is an Evil Nazi Who Wants To Bring Back Slavery And Apartheid. The biggest problem is that the idiots who get all het up about it and want to ban him from ever doing anything ever again kick up a big shitstorm that distracts from actual issues that are actually happening now in actual places to actual people.


I suspect you're right but those voices have increasing influence today I think.

It's symptomatic of a very creepy kind of moralising you get these days, particularly on the modern left and which finds its natural home in that arena of virtue signalling outrage Twitter. It's creepified even further by the fact that it's become even more fundamentalist, making thoughts themselves sinful.




Let's get this right - he didn't just 'think' about harming any black man.... he actively went out into the streets to pursue and harm any black man that just happened to question why he was walking along the street wielding a cosh in his hand. Now you may consider it okay to just harm a particular person because they look like someone who has done harm to someone else - but, sadly for you, the law says that's racially aggravated insert whatever offence. And rightly so. You may even consider it okay to use the term 'black bastard' when describing the innocent person you are looking to maim. You may even justify it all by saying none of this really happened and Neeson was just making this up to give us all a lecture about the dangers of racism (though he hasn't himself said that, even now).

But don't for one minute believe it's 'creepy moralising' to find the words and actions of Neeson so morally repugnant that one feels the need to speak out against it. It's a perfectly understandable and reasonable response to a man who has, in essence, admitted that he wanted to commit a race crime - because he somehow thought that he could justify it, in his own twisted set of values.

Read it again.

“I went up and down areas with a cosh, hoping I’d be approached by somebody – I’m ashamed to say that – and I did it for maybe a week, hoping some ‘black bastard’ would come out of a pub and have a go at me about something, you know? So that I could … kill him.”

You still want to justify Neeson's words and actions?
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Re: Do we need to talk about Liam ?

Postby Penk! » 11 Feb 2019, 16:06

Is anyone justifying his words and actions? I think people are acknowledging, rather, the fact that Neeson has expressed remorse and regret for his behaviour and said that he learnt from it.

And it's worth noting that he did not, in fact, attack and kill a black man. He said he was hoping to be attacked himself rather than actively chasing black people down and whacking them. While I am not an expert on the racial makeup of Belfast in the 1970s, I do find it fairly unlikely that he would not have encountered a black man during that week. So the impression I get is that he did not, in fact, act upon his thoughts.
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Re: Do we need to talk about Liam ?

Postby Goat Boy » 11 Feb 2019, 16:11

I don't even know where to start with all that and I'm not going to even bother because I don't have the energy to engage with you right now, Pete, and frankly I'm sick to fucking death of your simple minded bullshit and petty point scoring moralising.

If you want to carry on the debate then take up with G who thinks it's a "fuss about nothing" because I've had enough of you, I really, really have.
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Re: Do we need to talk about Liam ?

Postby Diamond Dog » 11 Feb 2019, 16:34

:lol:

Game, set & match.
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Re: Do we need to talk about Liam ?

Postby Diamond Dog » 11 Feb 2019, 16:37

PENK wrote:
And it's worth noting that he did not, in fact, attack and kill a black man. He said he was hoping to be attacked himself rather than actively chasing black people down and whacking them.



Full quote (again) "I went up and down areas with a cosh, hoping I’d be approached by somebody – I’m ashamed to say that – and I did it for maybe a week, hoping some ‘black bastard’ would come out of a pub and have a go at me about something, you know? So that I could … kill him."

Notice the difference there Ed?
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Re: Do we need to talk about Liam ?

Postby The Modernist » 11 Feb 2019, 16:54

Diamond Dog wrote:
PENK wrote:
And it's worth noting that he did not, in fact, attack and kill a black man. He said he was hoping to be attacked himself rather than actively chasing black people down and whacking them.



Full quote (again) "I went up and down areas with a cosh, hoping I’d be approached by somebody – I’m ashamed to say that – and I did it for maybe a week, hoping some ‘black bastard’ would come out of a pub and have a go at me about something, you know? So that I could … kill him."

Notice the difference there Ed?


It struck me as macho fantasising.
I can relate to it in a way because when my oldest friend died of a drugs overdose, his brother and I stayed up all night planning how we were going to lure and attack this drug dealer ( who happened to be black). This drug dealer had cut up his face shortly before he died. We didn't get close to doing it, partly because the dealer lived a 100 miles away in Bristol, but mainly because neither of us were violent people. But there was something cathartic in planning it, in that moment of terrible grief when you're feeling a mixture of anger and guilt, it felt empowering somehow, a response to the helplessness. Neeson took it a bit further, but it seemed to me to be coming from a similar place. After all, if he really intended to attack a black guy, he would've done it.

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Re: Do we need to talk about Liam ?

Postby Diamond Dog » 11 Feb 2019, 17:00

Okay,.... if he's play acting for effect, maybe he should choose slightly less offensive and controversial stereotypes. Indeed, if it was all fantasy, why bother to identify the race of the person he was looking for? Why not just say - I went looking for a guy, any guy, with which to 'get my revenge' ? Or just - as an example- say he was looking for a white Irish youth?
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Re: Do we need to talk about Liam ?

Postby The Modernist » 11 Feb 2019, 17:04

Diamond Dog wrote:Okay,.... if he's play acting for effect, maybe he should choose slightly less offensive and controversial stereotypes. Indeed, if it was all fantasy, why bother to identify the race of the person he was looking for? Why not just say - I went looking for a guy, any guy, with which to 'get my revenge' ? Or just - as an example- say he was looking for a white Irish youth?


Because the guy that did the rape was black. I do agree he should have been more considered, and sensitive to the possible implications, in the way he relayed the story in the interview.

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Re: Do we need to talk about Liam ?

Postby Diamond Dog » 11 Feb 2019, 17:09

I think that's thing for me. He seems to be getting an incredibly sympathetic press for an utterly outrageous statement - especially such a racially charged statement from a prominent celeb.
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Re: Do we need to talk about Liam ?

Postby The Modernist » 11 Feb 2019, 17:23

I've read plenty of media condemnation of what he's said too, but I think many people think some of the criticism has been over the top, hence the counter-reaction.