Integrity Initiative

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Jimbo
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Re: Integrity Initiative

Postby Jimbo » 16 Dec 2018, 12:15

The Modernist wrote:
PENK wrote:There are plenty of issues with mainstream media but there are also plenty of decent alternatives that offer more balanced and investigative views without needing to go ”underground”.

Face it 99% of ”protest pages” or Youtube channels are either sweaty shut-ins babbling about conspiracies or loony skinheads peddling neo-Nazi theories and made-up news.


Proper investigative journalism needs substantial funding, it needs legal support and advice, it needs teams of people working together..which is why it has always been best served by traditional newspapers. I don't think supporters of alternative media fully understand this.


Not anymore. The internet has changed "traditional" media forever - or for the time being. Wikileaks, Anonymous, beholden to no government or stodgy editorial board or corporate owner or advertisers. Or, unless, the powers that want to keep their secrets secret work to subvert the internet with fake, official-line supporting news and gullible suckers who think a good haircut equals a good journalist.
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Re: Integrity Initiative

Postby $P.Muff$ » 16 Dec 2018, 12:31

PENK wrote:There are plenty of issues with mainstream media but there are also plenty of decent alternatives that offer more balanced and investigative views without needing to go ”underground”.

Face it 99% of ”protest pages” or Youtube channels are either sweaty shut-ins babbling about conspiracies or loony skinheads peddling neo-Nazi theories and made-up news.


Correct on all accounts.

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Jimbo
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Re: Integrity Initiative

Postby Jimbo » 16 Dec 2018, 13:02

*sputtering*

Fer cryin' out loud. This Integrity Initiative leak story is all over the non-skinhead region of the internet and so i go to BBC and do a search. Two recent entries. One a video of Parliament discussing the issue and the other blaming Russia for the leak.

Russia hack 'bid to discredit' UK anti-disinformation campaign - Foreign Office
By James Landale Diplomatic correspondent


Oh yeah, the traditional media is filling in the information gaps.
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The Modernist
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Re: Integrity Initiative

Postby The Modernist » 16 Dec 2018, 13:26

Jimbo wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
PENK wrote:There are plenty of issues with mainstream media but there are also plenty of decent alternatives that offer more balanced and investigative views without needing to go ”underground”.

Face it 99% of ”protest pages” or Youtube channels are either sweaty shut-ins babbling about conspiracies or loony skinheads peddling neo-Nazi theories and made-up news.


Proper investigative journalism needs substantial funding, it needs legal support and advice, it needs teams of people working together..which is why it has always been best served by traditional newspapers. I don't think supporters of alternative media fully understand this.


Not anymore. The internet has changed "traditional" media forever - or for the time being. Wikileaks, Anonymous, beholden to no government or stodgy editorial board or corporate owner or advertisers. Or, unless, the powers that want to keep their secrets secret work to subvert the internet with fake, official-line supporting news and gullible suckers who think a good haircut equals a good journalist.


I understand how things have changed, but you miss the point I was making. The actual logistics of uncovering a news story takes time,money, manpower and a variety of expertise the newspapers can call upon. A bit more than someone sitting at their computer googling you know?

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Re: Integrity Initiative

Postby GoogaMooga » 16 Dec 2018, 13:47

Some news stories require logistics and on the spot reporting, others require deep research. I would not rule out one in favor of the other.
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Jimbo
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Re: Integrity Initiative

Postby Jimbo » 16 Dec 2018, 13:53

The Modernist wrote: A bit more than someone sitting at their computer googling you know?


I suppose you are right but only to the extent that googling is all a researcher is doing. And look around, peep into any office or newsroom and all you see are googlers. Society today is all about the google. Googling is especially relevant when the googles, information is the issue at hand. The Integrity Initiative story is about googling, tweeting, info/dis-info, especially discrediting Russia with googles - and the UK government hypocrisy and cover up, of course.

For on the ground discrediting of the UK/BBC narrative look no further than the reporting of Vanessa Beely on the ground in Syria. Hell, go to RT, if you dare, and see how they are covering the Yellow Jacket story, coverage so good our guys are saying their coverage is akin to RT inciting the movement.
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: Integrity Initiative

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 16 Dec 2018, 17:23

I spent three years of my career in the newsroom of a major newspaper. My desk was surrounded by the desks of professional reporters. I saw how they went about their work. I attended editorial meetings. I know how much schooling went into becoming a professional journalist. I also know how thankless a job it can be.

In those years, I never saw a single reporter pressured to change their work for any agenda. But based on the personalities I knew, I’d have loved to have watched someone try to influence them.

I’m not going to mince words here: If you trust any douchebag who can sign-up for a YouTube account, or any failed stand-up comedian who finally found success dispensing conformation bias to the gullible, alternative online magazines made up of journalistic also-rans who sensed the potential of a cottage industry as “outsider” journalists, and an obvious propagandist pretending to play information anarchist online - than you are a dipshit. You are not a truth-seeker. You are a useful idiot. You can fuck yourself.

I don’t believe everything I read in the papers. Nobody with any intelligence blindly accepts any news story they read as gospel. But on the hierarchy of sources I’m willing to trust - the young idealist who goes to college and trains to be a journalist, with all of the professional ethics that go along with that (and despite the low pay and job insecurity they know they are signing up for), will ALWAYS be more credible to me than some random conspiracy peddler with internet access.

“Integrity Initiative.” :roll: Orwell would have loved it.
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Re: Integrity Initiative

Postby Toby » 16 Dec 2018, 19:17

Jimbi I think you’re a fun guy and quite amusing, but all this conspiracy bollocks is making you look like a prize melt.

The issue I think is that there is an urge if it can be called that, for the human brain to see everything linked up together. That is why so many people latch onto cosmogonies because they want to bathe in the reassurance of some cosmic harmony. That everything is linked somehow and working together. It’s the same with conspiracies. Rather than a series of unrelated events with people doing their own thing and whatever, somehow there is a conspiracy and actually these are all part of some major plan to overhaul the world. We have conspiracies because there is an urge for us to create a narrative out of something, even if it is nothing. It gets worse now because we are exposed to so much more news than we ever were.

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Re: Integrity Initiative

Postby sloopjohnc » 16 Dec 2018, 19:40

The Modernist wrote:
PENK wrote:There are plenty of issues with mainstream media but there are also plenty of decent alternatives that offer more balanced and investigative views without needing to go ”underground”.

Face it 99% of ”protest pages” or Youtube channels are either sweaty shut-ins babbling about conspiracies or loony skinheads peddling neo-Nazi theories and made-up news.


Proper investigative journalism needs substantial funding, it needs legal support and advice, it needs teams of people working together..which is why it has always been best served by traditional newspapers. I don't think supporters of alternative media fully understand this.


When Trump was just getting started on his tariff binge, he was approached by a Washington State newsprint company who asked the administration to set tariffs on Canadian newsprint, the main source for US newspapers. Prices on newsprint went up 32% on an industry already in trouble.

5 or 6 of my journalist friends have had to transition to PR or marcom during the years.

John Oliver gives a pretty good synopsis on the value of local and regional newspapers.

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Re: Integrity Initiative

Postby sloopjohnc » 16 Dec 2018, 19:47

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:I spent three years of my career in the newsroom of a major newspaper. My desk was surrounded by the desks of professional reporters. I saw how they went about their work. I attended editorial meetings. I know how much schooling went into becoming a professional journalist. I also know how thankless a job it can be.

In those years, I never saw a single reporter pressured to change their work for any agenda. But based on the personalities I knew, I’d have loved to have watched someone try to influence them.


I have quite a few friends who are an were in journalism. There are editorial choices made, but never to influence a journalist's story.

One of my oldest friends who I've known since kindergarten, is the Vietnam bureau chief for Bloomberg. It anyone were to be influenced, it would be him, a business reporter. Never happened.
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Re: Integrity Initiative

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 16 Dec 2018, 20:40

Right.

I mean.... look... there are plenty of problems with modern journalism - even before Trump. Much of it is dependent on access to newsmakers, and that will always be a double-edged sword. So there will always be examples like Judith Miller, allowing herself to be used by the Bush administration.

There are definitely problems with cable news and it’s need for endless content. It’s amazing how shallow their coverage is, given literally endless time. But all of that is about the market. News presented as a profit-making enterprise will always muddy itself with entertainment and opinion.

But the so-called alternative news is hobbled by almost no access. Much of what you read there is no more than you or I could dig up. Meanwhile market forces are an even more corrupting influence. The folks at all of Jimbo’s favorite sites know their audience and their business model. You never see any of them file any copy that contradicts their ongoing narrative. I may dislike the both-siderism of CNN, but at least I can spot it a mile away and account for it. But spend a few days reading the Consortium News and the meta-narrative will never vary. Only the financial appeals for you to support “real journalism” will bother to change.
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Re: Integrity Initiative

Postby Jimbo » 16 Dec 2018, 23:33

:roll:

The thread is not about the state of journalism it's about this now exposed secret program named Integrity Initiative set up and funded by the UK government to make Russia look bad. So now, hopefully, when you see "Russia this!" or Russia that!" in your NYT, WAPO, BBC, MSNBC, ETC., pause and wonder if this is real news or government produced fake news. Its exposure is real. There are apparently 1000s of documents to prove it. It's dissemination, however, is problematic. That raggedy looking internet sites and not the MSM are the bearers of this story is telling.

Greetings. We are Anonymous.

Our previous publication has sparked public outrage in the UK, therefore we feel bound to break silence once again and change the way the operation is going on.

https://www.cyberguerrilla.org/blog/ope ... ll-part-2/

Well-coordinated efforts of the Anonymous from all over the world have forced the UK politicians to react to the unacceptable and in fact illegal activity of the British government that uses public money to carry out misinformation campaigns not only in the EU, US and Canada but in the UK as well, in particular campaigns against the Labour party. The Integrity Initiative is now under first official investigation. We promise to give close scrutiny to the investigation that we believe should be conducted honestly, openly and absolutely transparently for the society, rather than become an internal and confidential case of the Foreign Office.

To show our expertise in the investigation as well as to warn the UK government that they must not even try to put it all down to the activity of some charity foundations and public organizations we reveal a part of documents unveiling the true face of The Institute for Statecraft and some information about its leadership.

Indeed, the Integrity Initiative receives its financing from The Institute for Statecraft, a company that very few knew about up until recently. Here is the information that you can get from its official website: its programme has not been updated since late 2017, no data on its employees, no contacts whatsoever, not even an official e-mail, while the source code of its online publications suggests automated uploads of the contents. And here are the documents about The Institute for Statecraft and the Integrity Initiative that we are ready to share with you:


https://www.cyberguerrilla.org/blog/ope ... ll-part-3/
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Re: Integrity Initiative

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 16 Dec 2018, 23:51

Nah. Nobody cares about that.

This thread is now about peacocks. Strange birds aren’t they? Anyone have any good pictures?
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Re: Integrity Initiative

Postby $P.Muff$ » 17 Dec 2018, 00:57

Peacocks are loud & obnoxious. Unlike bonsai trees:

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Re: Integrity Initiative

Postby Copehead » 17 Dec 2018, 10:00

yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:They have a nice side line in smearing the Labour Party in the UK as well, all paid for by the government!




:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


You think the government paying a disinformation group that smears the Labour Party anonymously online is a good thing do you?

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Re: Integrity Initiative

Postby yomptepi » 17 Dec 2018, 10:21

Copehead wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:They have a nice side line in smearing the Labour Party in the UK as well, all paid for by the government!




:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


You think the government paying a disinformation group that smears the Labour Party anonymously online is a good thing do you?

Sad


I think it is the sort of thing governments do, and I'm sure your mate and hero Tony Blair wasn't averse to some disinformation now and then. You are such a hypocrite.
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Re: Integrity Initiative

Postby Diamond Dog » 17 Dec 2018, 10:30

yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:
yomptepi wrote:


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


You think the government paying a disinformation group that smears the Labour Party anonymously online is a good thing do you?

Sad


I think it is the sort of thing governments do, and I'm sure your mate and hero Tony Blair wasn't averse to some disinformation now and then. You are such a hypocrite.


Are you able to actually quote anything you disagree with (or are embarrassed by because it blows your heroes up) without referring it back to a comparison with Blair? Anything? Ever?

Grow the fuck up.
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Re: Integrity Initiative

Postby yomptepi » 17 Dec 2018, 10:53

Diamond Dog wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:
You think the government paying a disinformation group that smears the Labour Party anonymously online is a good thing do you?

Sad


I think it is the sort of thing governments do, and I'm sure your mate and hero Tony Blair wasn't averse to some disinformation now and then. You are such a hypocrite.


Are you able to actually quote anything you disagree with (or are embarrassed by because it blows your heroes up) without referring it back to a comparison with Blair? Anything? Ever?

Grow the fuck up.


I am just trying to be fair by throwing things back to the last elected Labour Prime Minister, such as he was. The point, which of course you miss, is that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I doubt you could find a government in the last 100 years who din't use some kind of chicanery to discredit the opposition. Copehead seems to think all this nonsense started with the May government. It did not. Look at how Blair remodeled the BBC to make sure that it always followed the government line. Now the Labour opposition complain the BBC is not impartial. Well there is reason for that...
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Re: Integrity Initiative

Postby Diamond Dog » 17 Dec 2018, 11:15

So the answer is "no".
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Re: Integrity Initiative

Postby yomptepi » 17 Dec 2018, 11:18

That's right.
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