Knocking Conspiracies on the head

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Toby
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Knocking Conspiracies on the head

Postby Toby » 23 Nov 2018, 19:30

This is an excellent piece.

https://quillette.com/2018/11/22/my-mis ... spiracism/

My tumble down the JFK assassination rabbit-hole began in the Tunbridge Wells Odeon on 25 January 1992. I was 16. A few years previously, I had watched a television documentary that purported to identify a second assassin in police uniform (known to conspiracy researchers as ‘badgeman’) firing at the president from the grassy knoll. But I’d never heard of Jim Garrison and knew precisely nothing about the case he had prosecuted against Clay Shaw. Oliver Stone’s new film had a 189-minute running time (later expanded to 206 minutes in the Director’s Cut) which struck me as excessive, and there was something vaguely irritating about the piety of the sentences emblazoned across the promotional material (“He is a District Attorney. He will risk his life, the lives of his family, everything he holds dear, for the one thing he holds sacred… the truth”). Nevertheless, on JFK’s opening weekend, I took my seat in a packed auditorium along with a couple of school friends and for over three hours I was mesmerised. By the time it was all over, my misgivings had been forgotten and I was convinced...

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Re: Knocking Conspiracies on the head

Postby Charlie O. » 23 Nov 2018, 20:40

Good stuff, Toby.
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Re: Knocking Conspiracies on the head

Postby Jimbo » 24 Nov 2018, 04:23

The author is debunking a Hollywood movie and not the reams of otherwise good theorizing. If he wants to clear his mind for other stuff besides CTs, fine, watch the BBC or any mainstream debunking doc. But if he is curious ,,, No matter what he has written, as usual, what gets me are the anomalies, i.e., the magic bullet, the strange other deaths in the assassination's wake and how come George Bush Sr. can't remember where he was when JFK was shot. (Look it up.) There are loads of these things and while they may not add up as conclusively and neatly as the Warren Report, as long as there are actual things, we CTers can still say, "Oh yeah, but what about this!"
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Re: Knocking Conspiracies on the head

Postby CLOWN » 24 Nov 2018, 06:12

So brave!
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Re: Knocking Conspiracies on the head

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 24 Nov 2018, 06:57

How do Jimbo’s sources avoid unfortunate accidents?
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Re: Knocking Conspiracies on the head

Postby Powehi » 24 Nov 2018, 08:54

Toby wrote:
This is an excellent piece.

https://quillette.com/2018/11/22/my-mis ... spiracism/



Anyone on the lookout for a more thorough debunking of the events of 22/11/63 will find Gerald Posner's Case Closed worth a read.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Case-Closed-Ha ... ase+Closed

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Re: Knocking Conspiracies on the head

Postby The Modernist » 24 Nov 2018, 14:02

For once I agree with Jimbo. Writing such a detailed debunking of a Hollywood movie smacks of snatching candy from a baby and shows a lazy reluctance to engage with some of the more valid questions out there.

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Re: Knocking Conspiracies on the head

Postby Toby » 24 Nov 2018, 14:05

The Modernist wrote:For once I agree with Jimbo. Writing such a detailed debunking of a Hollywood movie smacks of snatching candy from a baby and shows a lazy reluctance to engage with some of the more valid questions out there.


What questions?

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Re: Knocking Conspiracies on the head

Postby The Modernist » 24 Nov 2018, 14:10

Toby wrote:
The Modernist wrote:For once I agree with Jimbo. Writing such a detailed debunking of a Hollywood movie smacks of snatching candy from a baby and shows a lazy reluctance to engage with some of the more valid questions out there.


What questions?


There are myriad questions Toby on the aftermath of the assassination, the conduct of officials and Oswald's relationship with the authorities. It is way too complex for me to give a precis here.

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Re: Knocking Conspiracies on the head

Postby Diamond Dog » 24 Nov 2018, 14:25

Jimbo wrote:the magic bullet, the strange other deaths in the assassination's wake and how come George Bush Sr. can't remember where he was when JFK was shot. (Look it up.) "



The magic bullet theory has been absolutely disproven - there is a perfectly sensible (and demonstrated) manner in which that bullet could have caused the injuries it did.
If all the other President's can remember where they were, does that give it to the 'non conspiracy' team, then?

There are questions to be answered - these aren't them.
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Re: Knocking Conspiracies on the head

Postby Deebank » 24 Nov 2018, 15:09

There’s an Australian detective who has shown that it’s most likely that the shot that killed jfk (an ‘exploding’ hollow point round unlike the other two) was fired accidentally by a security agent in the following car. The AR15 - always kept ready to fire in the car - was discharged by accident - that’s how people at ground level could smell gus smoke - with the ‘dum dum’ blowing out the top right front of kennedy’s Head. The other bullet that hit him in the throat was a different calibre and behaved differently - with a small exit wound.

The reason there were three cartridge cases in the book depository was because riflemen keep a spent cartridge in the breech to keep it clean iirc - so only two shot from LHO.

The cover up was to protect the agents .

Watch the doc, it’s convincing.
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Re: Knocking Conspiracies on the head

Postby Goat Boy » 24 Nov 2018, 15:23

Those things are meant to be convincing. You don't get an alternative voice poking holes in the theory, do ya?

I grew up believing in the JFK conspiracy but was convinced some years ago that it actually was just Oswald.
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Re: Knocking Conspiracies on the head

Postby clive gash » 24 Nov 2018, 15:26

I await a full and frank investigation into ‘The Hounding of Rother”.
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Diamond Dog wrote:...yet it quite clearly hit the target with you and your nonce, didn't it?

...a multitude of innuendo and hearsay...


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Re: Knocking Conspiracies on the head

Postby Deebank » 24 Nov 2018, 15:34

Goat Boy wrote:Those things are meant to be convincing. You don't get an alternative voice poking holes in the theory, do ya?

I grew up believing in the JFK conspiracy but was convinced some years ago that it actually was just Oswald.


Well as conspiracies go it’s not sinister - it’s just covering up a random fuck up. Which to me is plausinle and accounts for many of the anomalies.
I've been talking about writing a book - 25 years of TEFL - for a few years now. I've got it in me.

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Re: Knocking Conspiracies on the head

Postby Goat Boy » 24 Nov 2018, 15:44

Deebank wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:Those things are meant to be convincing. You don't get an alternative voice poking holes in the theory, do ya?

I grew up believing in the JFK conspiracy but was convinced some years ago that it actually was just Oswald.


Well as conspiracies go it’s not sinister - it’s just covering up a random fuck up. Which to me is plausinle and accounts for many of the anomalies.


I am aware of the theory but I don't think it's particular plausible.

I enjoyed it nevertheless.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:a right wing cretin like Berger....bleating about racism

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Re: Knocking Conspiracies on the head

Postby Jimbo » 24 Nov 2018, 17:29

Cold War Number One: 70 years of daily national stupidity. Cold War Number Two: Still in its youth, but just as stupid. - William Blum

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Re: Knocking Conspiracies on the head

Postby Jimbo » 25 Nov 2018, 09:45

JFK 55 years on: Casting Light on 9/11 & Other 21st Century Crimes
Graeme MacQueen

... Salandria decided in 1998 to outline his basic approach. I will call this the Salandria Approach. I draw attention to it because I believe it helps us find our feet when we tackle not only the JFK killing but many of the killings in the 21st century’s War on Terror.

Here are Salandria’s words:

I began to sift through the myriad facts regarding the assassination which our government and the US media offered us. What I did was to examine the data in a different fashion from the approach adopted by our news media. I chose to assess how an innocent civilian-controlled US government would have reacted to those data. I also envisioned how a guilty US national security state which may have gained control of and may have become semi-autonomous to the civilian US governmental structure would have reacted to the data of the assassination.”

He adds that,

only a guilty government seeking to serve the interests of the assassins would consistently resort to accepting one improbable conclusion after another while rejecting a long series of probable conclusions.”

...

Here we are, then, at the 55th anniversary of the murder of a president who was moving away from Cold War thinking and entering a different path. As we reflect on the direction in which his assassins have steered the United States of America, to the detriment of all of us, US citizens and otherwise, let us reflect on Salandria’s words:

By coming to understand the true answer to the historical question of who killed President Kennedy and why, we will have developed a delicate and precisely accurate prism through which we can examine how power works in this militarized country. By understanding the nature of this monumental crime, we will become equipped to organize the struggle through which we can make this country a civilian republic in more than name only.” https://off-guardian.org/2018/11/22/jfk ... ry-crimes/


Cui bono?

From JFK to the Skripals, Garrison's story of how the government can somehow explain how an off-cliff bound elephant saved its own life by wrapping its tail around a daisy says much about so many wacky official explanations.
Cold War Number One: 70 years of daily national stupidity. Cold War Number Two: Still in its youth, but just as stupid. - William Blum

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Re: Knocking Conspiracies on the head

Postby Jimbo » 29 Nov 2018, 01:57

Britons are swallowing conspiracy theories. Here’s how to stop the rot
Hugo Drochon


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -fake-news

If this don't knock 'em on the noggin nuthin' will!

:lol:

https://off-guardian.org/2018/11/28/peo ... stop-them/

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Cold War Number One: 70 years of daily national stupidity. Cold War Number Two: Still in its youth, but just as stupid. - William Blum