Have you got a hard on for New York

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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sloopjohnc
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby sloopjohnc » 19 Nov 2018, 19:15

bobzilla77 wrote:As someone who has toured in rock bands starting in the early 90s, I will say that I find more and more unified kind of consumer culture these days. Some places are more susceptible to it than others but it's all over the place. You can still get the distinct feel & flavor of a place, it just takes a little more openness and awareness.


I think it's a confluence of things that have transformed small town USA: the loss of manufacturing and the rise of agribusiness into a growing service and tech economy. Having a Walmart or Costco in town means jobs where other types of jobs have gone away. And with that, comes the McDonald's etc. Not everyone is trained in tech and can work in a server farm, but anyone can ring up or stock ramen or orange juice.
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby bobzilla77 » 19 Nov 2018, 20:25

Touring the Northwest in 1990 for the first time was the first time I ever saw espresso and dark roast coffee available on every block, and it was a REVELATION. I had only ever had coffee like that in fancy Italian restaurants. And Portland was the first place I went where I saw a micro brewed beer culture - lots of restaurants that made their own, and made them very flavorful and distinctive. So those kinds of things being unique to the area, made for a particular "Northwestern US" flavor, that was very different from the one you would get in, say, Cleveland.

Nowadays microbrews and strong coffee are everywhere, not just associated with that part of the US.
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby Diamond Dog » 19 Nov 2018, 20:44

I've not been to NYC but it never fails to amaze me that I haven't. Everytime I make plans these days, something gets in the way.... but I will get there, sometime.

Why do I want to go? Because of all the reasons people have given so far - it's very poetic, with so much great music and art and sport... the galleries, museums....central park.... I mean - we grew up with the TV and music from New York.. it's a place where there is a whole bank of pictorial and aural memories.

But the real reason I want to go? I hope to catch Broadway at just the right time - midnight- and imagine/do this :

Together they're gonna boogaloo down Broadway
And come back home with the loot
It's midnight in Manhattan, this is no time to get cute, it's a mad dog's promenade
So walk tall
Or baby, don't walk at all


That's why.
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby Ranking Ted » 19 Nov 2018, 21:50

I get the place may not be what it was in the days of Sinatra or Dylan in the Village or Ramones at CBGBs but the echoes of movies and books and scenes still resonate loudly. Theres seemingly some storied neighbourhood or street or bar or hotel round every corner. It’s a magical place and if you enjoy bar hopping, there’s nowhere better.

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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby the masked man » 19 Nov 2018, 22:14

I went to New York in 1987. Fascinating city. Probably not as sleazy as the 70s Mean Streets/Taxi Driver version, but still full of life and the obvious special places. I can understand that it’s become gentrified but that’s inevitable. I was a regular visitor to London in the 80s and frankly the city was so shabby then. I’ll never love the place, but it’s far pleasanter now. Maybe New York is the same.

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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby sloopjohnc » 19 Nov 2018, 22:15

Diamond Dog wrote:I've not been to NYC but it never fails to amaze me that I haven't. Everytime I make plans these days, something gets in the way.... but I will get there, sometime.


Yeah, but you've probably been to New York, New York in Vegas.

Same thing.

;)
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby Stille Baron » 20 Nov 2018, 00:18

For me, it just doesn't follow for that, because whatever culture I'm personally invested in isn't happening in a place NOW that there's no point in going to the place.

There's no denying New York isn't what it was. But nothing is, is it? I've been going there since about 1990 or 91 and lived reasonably close by (in TX terms) from 92-96. We were just there a few months ago. I understand if locals like Matty or Rita or Guy or Snarf or Hightea or whoever lament what's been lost. I feel the same way about the city where I live---it's going on all over the world. But you know what? Every time I go to New York City, I'm fucking stoked. I'm excited to arrive. I'm thrilled to be there, and I'm sad to leave. That doesn't depend on whether Thelonious Monk is jamming after hours with everyone known to man. It doesn't depend on whether abstract expressionists are painting and drinking downtown. It has nothing to do with whether hip hop is being born in the Bronx. New York is still New York. These things are different for locals, but it's always gonna be a rewarding trip for someone who isn't.

Unless their goal is to try to run into Carole King and Gerry Goffin outside of the Brill Building or some shit. When I've gone to Paris, I haven't been bummed out I didn't get to party with Jean Pierre Melville or Balzac.
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 20 Nov 2018, 00:31

Yep.

And buildings remain. Museums, cathedrals, theatres and cinemas. Streets and squares where things happen(ed).

Cultures are resilient. People keep the spirit alive.
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby GoogaMooga » 20 Nov 2018, 00:32

LeBaron wrote:For me, it just doesn't follow for that, because whatever culture I'm personally invested in isn't happening in a place NOW that there's no point in going to the place.

There's no denying New York isn't what it was. But nothing is, is it? I've been going there since about 1990 or 91 and lived reasonably close by (in TX terms) from 92-96. We were just there a few months ago. I understand if locals like Matty or Rita or Guy or Snarf or Hightea or whoever lament what's been lost. I feel the same way about the city where I live---it's going on all over the world. But you know what? Every time I go to New York City, I'm fucking stoked. I'm excited to arrive. I'm thrilled to be there, and I'm sad to leave. That doesn't depend on whether Thelonious Monk is jamming after hours with everyone known to man. It doesn't depend on whether abstract expressionists are painting and drinking downtown. It has nothing to do with whether hip hop is being born in the Bronx. New York is still New York. These things are different for locals, but it's always gonna be a rewarding trip for someone who isn't.

Unless their goal is to try to run into Carole King and Gerry Goffin outside of the Brill Building or some shit. When I've gone to Paris, I haven't been bummed out I didn't get to party with Jean Pierre Melville or Balzac.


That's all very well, but my take on this matter has nothing to do with hobnobbing with celebs. I wouldn't claim that NY has had all life sucked out of it. For me, going to the trouble of traveling and all that hassle, a city would have to offer top concerts, top pop culture (shopping), that sort of thing. Otherwise, I am far too comfortable staying home.
1966 and all that

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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 20 Nov 2018, 00:34

So stay at home and let the rest of us enjoy these places!
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby GoogaMooga » 20 Nov 2018, 00:35

DRUGS SNAKE wrote:So stay at home and let the rest of us enjoy these places!


Be my guest.

P.S.: Rome was an exception. I had to see the Sistine Chapel.
1966 and all that

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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby bobzilla77 » 20 Nov 2018, 01:00

I still quite enjoy travelling. It's usually not about the particular things I want to do there, it's about finding something that wouldn't have occurred to me if I had stayed home. My last European tour we played a lot of small towns, not places where you would likely choose to visit as a tourist. And we had memorable experiences there just as easily as we had them in big cities.
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby Stille Baron » 20 Nov 2018, 01:04

GoogaMooga wrote:
LeBaron wrote:For me, it just doesn't follow for that, because whatever culture I'm personally invested in isn't happening in a place NOW that there's no point in going to the place.

There's no denying New York isn't what it was. But nothing is, is it? I've been going there since about 1990 or 91 and lived reasonably close by (in TX terms) from 92-96. We were just there a few months ago. I understand if locals like Matty or Rita or Guy or Snarf or Hightea or whoever lament what's been lost. I feel the same way about the city where I live---it's going on all over the world. But you know what? Every time I go to New York City, I'm fucking stoked. I'm excited to arrive. I'm thrilled to be there, and I'm sad to leave. That doesn't depend on whether Thelonious Monk is jamming after hours with everyone known to man. It doesn't depend on whether abstract expressionists are painting and drinking downtown. It has nothing to do with whether hip hop is being born in the Bronx. New York is still New York. These things are different for locals, but it's always gonna be a rewarding trip for someone who isn't.

Unless their goal is to try to run into Carole King and Gerry Goffin outside of the Brill Building or some shit. When I've gone to Paris, I haven't been bummed out I didn't get to party with Jean Pierre Melville or Balzac.


That's all very well, but my take on this matter has nothing to do with hobnobbing with celebs. I wouldn't claim that NY has had all life sucked out of it. For me, going to the trouble of traveling and all that hassle, a city would have to offer top concerts, top pop culture (shopping), that sort of thing. Otherwise, I am far too comfortable staying home.


Yeah well I can see pretty much whatever music I want where I live and, with some exceptions, you don’t need to travel to shop anymore. I have no interest in hanging out with celebrities, those examples were shorthand for culture I like associated with specific places that is long gone. Which is what I thought was your point.
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby GoogaMooga » 20 Nov 2018, 01:18

LeBaron wrote:Yeah well I can see pretty much whatever music I want where I live and, with some exceptions, you don’t need to travel to shop anymore. I have no interest in hanging out with celebrities, those examples were shorthand for culture I like associated with specific places that is long gone. Which is what I thought was your point.


Yeah, that was half of it, at least. I get your point, that you used those examples figuratively. Obviously, many BCB'ers still like to travel, we've even got a subforum for that. I am not challenging that, merely stating where I'm at and hoping for a bit of a debate. It's run to four pages now, so obviously people want to discuss this matter. It's a dilemma, isn't it - on the one hand we want to keep city centers interesting with a variety of shops, on the other hand, we also want access to everything via the internet. Obviously, we can't have it both ways, something's gotta give. Now, as for live music, you can't beat, or couldn't beat, NY. It was once the home of doo wop, well, guess what - those groups are all long gone. And so it goes. Sloop made an interesting point, the young probably don't even care, they are too busy making their own history.
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 20 Nov 2018, 04:56

GoogaMooga wrote:Now, as for live music, you can't beat, or couldn't beat, NY. It was once the home of doo wop, well, guess what - those groups are all long gone.


:o
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby Polishgirl » 20 Nov 2018, 08:15

DRUGS SNAKE wrote:Yep.

And buildings remain. Museums, cathedrals, theatres and cinemas. Streets and squares where things happen(ed).

Cultures are resilient. People keep the spirit alive.


Listen to John Coan at this point. He has it.
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby GoogaMooga » 20 Nov 2018, 08:28

Polishgirl wrote:
DRUGS SNAKE wrote:Yep.

And buildings remain. Museums, cathedrals, theatres and cinemas. Streets and squares where things happen(ed).

Cultures are resilient. People keep the spirit alive.


Listen to John Coan at this point. He has it.


I agree in principle, even if I am not exactly sold on the idea now. I might have felt differently if I had never traveled much. But my parents had the traveling bug, took me around plenty.
1966 and all that

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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby Darkness_Fish » 20 Nov 2018, 09:21

Polishgirl wrote:Listen to John Coan

Seriously? Did you not think twice before writing that?
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby Robert » 20 Nov 2018, 10:03

LeBaron wrote:
GoogaMooga wrote:
LeBaron wrote:For me, it just doesn't follow for that, because whatever culture I'm personally invested in isn't happening in a place NOW that there's no point in going to the place.

There's no denying New York isn't what it was. But nothing is, is it? I've been going there since about 1990 or 91 and lived reasonably close by (in TX terms) from 92-96. We were just there a few months ago. I understand if locals like Matty or Rita or Guy or Snarf or Hightea or whoever lament what's been lost. I feel the same way about the city where I live---it's going on all over the world. But you know what? Every time I go to New York City, I'm fucking stoked. I'm excited to arrive. I'm thrilled to be there, and I'm sad to leave. That doesn't depend on whether Thelonious Monk is jamming after hours with everyone known to man. It doesn't depend on whether abstract expressionists are painting and drinking downtown. It has nothing to do with whether hip hop is being born in the Bronx. New York is still New York. These things are different for locals, but it's always gonna be a rewarding trip for someone who isn't.

Unless their goal is to try to run into Carole King and Gerry Goffin outside of the Brill Building or some shit. When I've gone to Paris, I haven't been bummed out I didn't get to party with Jean Pierre Melville or Balzac.


That's all very well, but my take on this matter has nothing to do with hobnobbing with celebs. I wouldn't claim that NY has had all life sucked out of it. For me, going to the trouble of traveling and all that hassle, a city would have to offer top concerts, top pop culture (shopping), that sort of thing. Otherwise, I am far too comfortable staying home.


Yeah well I can see pretty much whatever music I want where I live and, with some exceptions, you don’t need to travel to shop anymore. I have no interest in hanging out with celebrities, those examples were shorthand for culture I like associated with specific places that is long gone. Which is what I thought was your point.



Agreed, but even the shopping bit isn't really true. The online experience is completely different from actually being in Sax 5th Avenue. If you don't like that sort of stuff, fair do but it also goes for browsing in 2nd hand recordshops, bookshops, antique stores etc and markets. Online,you pretty much always know what you want to buy in advance- there's no room for surprise. That element you will only get by being there.

I understand part of Googa's point. We've all been nostalgic for places that once where but have been lost in time.

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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby Polishgirl » 20 Nov 2018, 10:22

Darkness_Fish wrote:
Polishgirl wrote:Listen to John Coan

Seriously? Did you not think twice before writing that?


:D Admittedly, I am quite drunk.

But HE’S RIGHT!
echolalia wrote: I despise Prefab Sprout. It will be decades before “hot dog, jumping frog, Albuquerque” is surpassed as the most terrible lyric in pop history. That fucking bastard ruined all three things for me forever.