Have you got a hard on for New York

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby Jimbo » 18 Nov 2018, 02:29

I contend you have to live in a place, a city, to get a real feel. I get a sick feeling when I visit NYC these days just thinking about how high the rents are and that all about me are suckers who pay them. If, however, I could actually somehow live in NYC or maybe more cheaply in a outer borough, get to know the small places, make friends, find my diner, my movie theater, my second hand record shop, etc., then I'd guess the magic of New York New York would reveal itself.
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby GoogaMooga » 18 Nov 2018, 02:52

First of all, I wrote almost pointless to visit, or live in. I then went on to make further disclaimers and pointed out I was speaking for myself and for like-minded people. I have backed up my statements, it would be nice if opponents backed up theirs.

To me, Western culture peaked in New York in the 1950s, and to a lesser extent the 1960s. To expect any city to maintain such a level of intensity and culture would be unrealistic. What draws me to the big cities is largely gone now. Since 1997 I have only traveled for concerts. I was never much of a tourist.
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby pig bodine » 18 Nov 2018, 03:10

New York has completely lost its charm for me. Last time I was there, I couldn’t wait to leave. I lived there for around 10 years in the 80’s and early 90’s, and it isn’t the same city. The art and music scene in the 80’s was incredible. Hip hop from old school through the golden age, New York was the center of it all. The graffiti art was fantastic. I didn’t have a ton of money, but people watching was free and you could spend the day just doing that. Today, it’s just another city that stinks to high heaven, over crowded with people on their iPhones, the book stores are gone, the record stores have moved to Brooklyn and are overpriced and the selection has gone down hill. You can’t find a CD there, but you can buy a 1980’s’s pressing of Led Zeppelin II for $20. Popular culture has moved to YouTube, New York is no more important in that regard than Omaha or Tucson.

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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby GoogaMooga » 18 Nov 2018, 03:14

pig bodine wrote:New York has completely lost its charm for me. Last time I was there, I couldn’t wait to leave. I lived there for around 10 years in the 80’s and early 90’s, and it isn’t the same city. The art and music scene in the 80’s was incredible. Hip hop from old school through the golden age, New York was the center of it all. The graffiti art was fantastic. I didn’t have a ton of money, but people watching was free and you could spend the day just doing that. Today, it’s just another city that stinks to high heaven, over crowded with people on their iPhones, the book stores are gone, the record stores have moved to Brooklyn and are overpriced and the selection has gone down hill. You can’t find a CD there, but you can buy a 1980’s’s pressing of Led Zeppelin II for $20. Popular culture has moved to YouTube, New York is no more important in that regard than Omaha or Tucson.


Well written. Thank you.
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby Jimbo » 18 Nov 2018, 08:23

It's interesting how cities come into and out of vogue. I dare say that in 2018 Tokyo is the place to be.
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby The Modernist » 18 Nov 2018, 09:24

pig bodine wrote:New York has completely lost its charm for me. Last time I was there, I couldn’t wait to leave. I lived there for around 10 years in the 80’s and early 90’s, and it isn’t the same city. The art and music scene in the 80’s was incredible. Hip hop from old school through the golden age, New York was the center of it all. The graffiti art was fantastic. I didn’t have a ton of money, but people watching was free and you could spend the day just doing that. Today, it’s just another city that stinks to high heaven, over crowded with people on their iPhones, the book stores are gone, the record stores have moved to Brooklyn and are overpriced and the selection has gone down hill. You can’t find a CD there, but you can buy a 1980’s’s pressing of Led Zeppelin II for $20. Popular culture has moved to YouTube, New York is no more important in that regard than Omaha or Tucson.


I've never been, but New York has lost its allure for me for exactly that reason. London is exactly the same.

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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby Toby » 18 Nov 2018, 09:27

So we're agreed that you can make a comment on what a place is like without having been there?

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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby The Modernist » 18 Nov 2018, 09:30

Toby wrote:So we're agreed that you can make a comment on what a place is like without having been there?


Well I was making a comment on its allure. It doesn't have the romantic attractiveness that it once did for me because of the reasons Pig Bodine ( who has been there) stated.

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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 18 Nov 2018, 11:29

GoogaMooga wrote:First of all, I wrote almost pointless to visit, or live in.


this is what you said:

GoogaMooga wrote:With everything crammed into the internet and available at the click of a mouse, it almost seems pointless to visit, or indeed live in a big city anymore.


which is a non-sequitur.

I can't imagine you'd get much argument if you made the point that it's worthless to visit art galleries as you can see everything from the comfort of your own home - that's one thing, but the rest? what you experience when travelling? until they invent internet eating, or internet smelling, or internet touching, then you're away with the fairies.


GoogaMooga wrote:I then went on to make further disclaimers and pointed out I was speaking for myself and for like-minded people. I have backed up my statements, it would be nice if opponents backed up theirs.


:lol:

You haven't backed up the statement quoted above. It would be impossible to do so. It's completely stupid.


The OTHER point you make, about cities losing their allure, makes some sense.
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby Ranking Ted » 18 Nov 2018, 12:09

JC is right - two different points being argued here. I can understand the one about homogenised consumerism, gentrification, etc but the one about cities not being worth visiting doesn’t make sense. From where I live, these cities are still centres of vibrant culture and life - and they still retain an allure and pull you simply don’t get in provincial central Scotland. I’d hop on a plane to NY tomorrow if I could.

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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby Nuts » 18 Nov 2018, 12:19

Not listening - La La La La La La....
I'm flying there for 5 days next Sunday
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby GoogaMooga » 18 Nov 2018, 12:26

John Coan: either you haven't read everything or you are conveniently ignoring what I wrote here:

GoogaMooga wrote:It can be contested, but it all depends on where you are coming from, what you are looking for. If you are a nostalgic, steeped in pop culture, like I am, then the big cities have lost much of their allure. If you like sightseeing, restos, museums, there is still a lot to enjoy.
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby The Modernist » 18 Nov 2018, 13:25

To be fair those reasons you bolded are the main reasons people visit cities as tourists!

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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby sloopjohnc » 18 Nov 2018, 15:01

Ranking Ted wrote:JC is right - two different points being argued here. I can understand the one about homogenised consumerism, gentrification, etc but the one about cities not being worth visiting doesn’t make sense. From where I live, these cities are still centres of vibrant culture and life - and they still retain an allure and pull you simply don’t get in provincial central Scotland. I’d hop on a plane to NY tomorrow if I could.


The Internet is just an excuse. You could say magazines like National Geographic and Conde Nast Traveller were good reasons not to visit places back in the day.

Reminiscing on "what was" is a luxury for the aging. San Francisco, or New York, still holds allure for young people who want to live in a vibrant, busy atmosphere. They're making their own history.
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby sloopjohnc » 18 Nov 2018, 15:01

Ranking Ted wrote:JC is right - two different points being argued here. I can understand the one about homogenised consumerism, gentrification, etc but the one about cities not being worth visiting doesn’t make sense. From where I live, these cities are still centres of vibrant culture and life - and they still retain an allure and pull you simply don’t get in provincial central Scotland. I’d hop on a plane to NY tomorrow if I could.


The Internet is just an excuse. You could say magazines like National Geographic and Conde Nast Traveller were good reasons not to visit places back in the day.

Reminiscing on "what was" is a luxury for the aging. San Francisco, or New York, still holds allure for young people who want to live in a vibrant, busy atmosphere. They're making their own history.
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 18 Nov 2018, 15:43

sloopjohnc wrote:Reminiscing on "what was" is a luxury for the aging. San Francisco, or New York, still holds allure for young people who want to live in a vibrant, busy atmosphere. They're making their own history.


Good point.
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby Goat Boy » 18 Nov 2018, 16:03

New York exists in the collective imagination in a way that most cities don't simply through our exposure to it through the dominant American culture. I'm sure for many of us here the New York of the 60s and 70s is what appeals to us. The New York of Serpico and Taxi Driver and CBGB's and the Village vanguard and so on. It's a powerful thing and it's understandable that some would bemoan the loss of the older, weirder New York (by New York I'm really talking about Manhattan). Even if you never experienced that New York you have an affinity for it and you can mourn its passing because of what it represented to you. On a more personal level I think you are also mourning the passing of the "old world" to some degree as well.
Gentrification has probably robbed it of something special I think and I don't think that's just hazy romanticism talking and I would say the same about other major cities such as London too and yet...

Having been there recently I still found it a magnificent place that was capable of inspiring awe. I mean if you walk back along the Brooklyn Bridge and view that panorama of Manhattan and don't get goosebumps then I would suggest something is probably wrong with you. All that life and history squeezed together on that little island. It does have an absurd amount of things to offer and there is something for everyone but clearly it is prohibitively too expensive for some.

Pointless to visit? No, of course not. Some things can only be really enjoyed and appreciated through direct experience and that's the appeal of travel. The scale of New York is not something you can fully understand through a 14" monitor obviously.

I'll certainly be back.
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby Goat Boy » 18 Nov 2018, 16:06

Earl E. Eel wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:Reminiscing on "what was" is a luxury for the aging. San Francisco, or New York, still holds allure for young people who want to live in a vibrant, busy atmosphere. They're making their own history.


Good point.


They are but but they aren't a representative as before because most young people can't afford to actually live there. It's become a playground for privileged kids.
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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby Polishgirl » 18 Nov 2018, 17:05

Nuts wrote:Not listening - La La La La La La....
I'm flying there for 5 days next Sunday


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Re: Have you got a hard on for New York

Postby Walk In My Shadow » 18 Nov 2018, 17:26

Austin or San Antonio are still THE places.

But they should relocate out of Texas.
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