Roma in the Czech Rep

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Diamond Dog
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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Diamond Dog » 10 Oct 2018, 15:25

Toby wrote:Lots of people benefitted from it though (including a whole swathe of 50-something Labour voters who bought properties in Zone 2 back in the 80s that are now worth 7 figures). I agree that the sale of council housing stock was without doubt problematic. The history of this particular decision and its ramifications has yet to be written, although there was a good book about housing written a couple of years ago.



Making people 'home owners' (read " Heavily in debt") was always a key strategy of the Conservatives - to force workers to accept eroded pay & conditions because they could no longer afford to strike, allowing businesses to become ever more profitable. I think that part of it has certainly been written - and will be written with even more emphasis once Brexit goes through and some of the key Rights Bills are disabled under future Governments.
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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Robert » 10 Oct 2018, 15:31

Toby wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
HEN wrote:Such dribbling half-baked crap.

I keep hearing this nonsense about Tory policy being to "target" the homeless, and that there's a "deliberate" plan to keep these numbers high.

I mean, I'd never vote Conservative, I dislike May (and think her party are making a real fucking mess of everything) - but why do the Left keep pushing these preposterous allegations? Fuck knows there's enough there that's valid to attack!


I like you a lot John, but sometimes your naivety on such matters staggers me.
No one is saying the Tories are so evil that they enjoy watching people die on the streets. But their housing policy ( with the exception of the consensual policies of the McMillan Government) has always favoured the privatisation and profitisation, almost always at the cost of care and provision, of housing and giving greater powers to landlords and wealthy developers. There is a long and complex history to this, but the upshot of it is a housing market that it is no longer affordable to many, whether we are talking renting or buying, and people living in slum conditions. We are now at the point of such crisis that even many Tories ( at least the few that don't have substantial property investment) see something must be done. And yes the effect of such policies has been homelessness among other things.



I think that's a bit myopic. The fact is that the availability of new housing is the ultimate root and cause of the inflated market. No government has been able to hit the 350K a year target for new houses since the late 60's and in this respect it's a problem shared by both Labour and Tories. One of the core dogmas of Tory philosophy is property - to own your own home - and I think in many regards, what with the cack-handed right to buy policy, there has been a drive to get people on the housing market, not appreciating that of course it created as many problems as it solved - showing that intervention by the state is often perilous. The last major drive in building was under Thatcher.

Image

The Green Belt act - which prevents a considerable number of houses being built - was a Labour policy. But would you renege on the destruction of our countryside? Like all of these things, they are extremely complex problems.



Just imagine the Pikies wanted to integrate and live in houses!!

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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Butch Manly » 10 Oct 2018, 20:29

Toby wrote:I agree that the sale of council housing stock was without doubt problematic.


Problematic? Dogmatic, wrongheaded and downright socially catastrophic, more like.

The history of this particular decision and its ramifications has yet to be written, although there was a good book about housing written a couple of years ago.


Does it really have to be written in a history book for you before you fully accept it? I see it written on the streets that I work in. I see it written in the faces of the itinerant children who pass though my borough, on a heartbreaking downward spiral of unrealised potential as benefit-capping and a woeful lack of social housing cut deep into community after community.

Still, mustn't grumble.
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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Butch Manly » 10 Oct 2018, 20:29

And at least we got a good book out of it.
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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Goat Boy » 10 Oct 2018, 22:53

Book sounds good! What’s it called?
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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby sloopjohnc » 10 Oct 2018, 23:18

Butch Manly wrote:Does it really have to be written in a history book for you before you fully accept it? I see it written on the streets that I work in. I see it written in the faces of the itinerant children who pass though my borough, on a heartbreaking downward spiral of unrealised potential as benefit-capping and a woeful lack of social housing cut deep into community after community.

Still, mustn't grumble.


Sounds like a Chuck Dickens op-ed.
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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby yomptepi » 11 Oct 2018, 00:21

A lot of links to the Canary there K. Not the most reliable source of information you know. They do just make stuff up. But I am sure you don't worry about little things like that...
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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Butch Manly » 11 Oct 2018, 18:56

Goat Boy wrote:Book sounds good! What’s it called?


"Municipal Dreams," I'm assuming.
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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Butch Manly » 14 Oct 2018, 23:08

The Modernist wrote:Of course, but it's not just ideological. Greed lies at the heart of it.


It's the eternal battle between the ruling class who are in power and want to feather their beds, and the downtrodden who know they are exploited and want some form of equality.

Ultimately, it's as simple as that.
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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Jimbo » 15 Oct 2018, 03:51

Roma is-a in Italia. Now-a and-a forever!
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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby yomptepi » 15 Oct 2018, 13:33

Butch Manly wrote:
The Modernist wrote:Of course, but it's not just ideological. Greed lies at the heart of it.


It's the eternal battle between the ruling class who are in power and want to feather their beds, and the downtrodden who know they are exploited and want some form of equality.

Ultimately, it's as simple as that.


I don't think it has anything to do with that. It is to do with cultural identity, and being able to do as you please. There are plenty of extremely wealthy travelers who still choose to live in trailers away from the world. We are all just "Gorgers" to them. "gorger on the other hand is simply a term for non romanies, derived as bill points out from a word meaning 'civilian' its not a term of offense, and unlike gyppo and pikey is a proper word derived from one of the oldest and purest languages in the world." They see us as aliens.
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