Roma in the Czech Rep

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
User avatar
Goat Boy
Bogarting the joint
Posts: 32795
Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 12:11
Location: In the perfumed garden

Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Goat Boy » 10 Oct 2018, 12:15

yomptepi wrote:
Pansy Puff wrote:The traveller lifestyle has a long and famous tradition. I'd have thought that would have been right up the Tories street.

"Conservatives believe strongly in the virtues of tradition and hold in high esteem the accumulated wisdom of the past"


Oh you really must enlighten us these traditions and accumulated wisdoms K. I am waiting with baited breath.



It’s like a traveller version of Goldie lookin Chain
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

User avatar
Toby
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23587
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Toby » 10 Oct 2018, 12:49

Oh the TORIES

User avatar
Goat Boy
Bogarting the joint
Posts: 32795
Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 12:11
Location: In the perfumed garden

Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Goat Boy » 10 Oct 2018, 12:56

WHAT ARE YOU LIKE?
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 35660
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby yomptepi » 10 Oct 2018, 12:57

Toby wrote:Oh the TORIES


You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings
hounds people off the board
Posts: 19656
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: selling a self-detonating James Last CD to a Copenhagen thrift store

Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 10 Oct 2018, 13:00

Such dribbling half-baked crap.

I keep hearing this nonsense about Tory policy being to "target" the homeless, and that there's a "deliberate" plan to keep these numbers high.

I mean, I'd never vote Conservative, I dislike May (and think her party are making a real fucking mess of everything) - but why do the Left keep pushing these preposterous allegations? Fuck knows there's enough there that's valid to attack!
GoogaMooga wrote:There's this joke about cowbells in the States, "More cowbell, we need more cowbell!".

User avatar
Goat Boy
Bogarting the joint
Posts: 32795
Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 12:11
Location: In the perfumed garden

Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Goat Boy » 10 Oct 2018, 13:13

HEN wrote:Such dribbling half-baked crap.

I keep hearing this nonsense about Tory policy being to "target" the homeless, and that there's a "deliberate" plan to keep these numbers high.

I mean, I'd never vote Conservative, I dislike May (and think her party are making a real fucking mess of everything) - but why do the Left keep pushing these preposterous allegations? Fuck knows there's enough there that's valid to attack!


Have you met these people?

Of course it exists on both sides, the conspiratorial hatred of "libtards" is just as irrational but there you go. The Tories are cartoonish villains, sitting around large desks puffing cigars and cackling loudly as they discuss how they can fuck the poor over.

This mindset is so deeply ingrained that some never escape it and it's getting worse I think.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

User avatar
Rayge
Posts: 13698
Joined: 14 Aug 2013, 11:37
Location: deepest Devon
Contact:

Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Rayge » 10 Oct 2018, 13:15

yomptepi wrote:I am waiting with baited breath.


Been eating maggots again, yomp?
In timeless moments we live forever

You can't play a tune on an absolute

Negative Capability...when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, Mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact & reason”

User avatar
The Modernist
2018 BCB Cup Champ!
Posts: 12876
Joined: 13 Apr 2014, 20:42

Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby The Modernist » 10 Oct 2018, 13:45

HEN wrote:Such dribbling half-baked crap.

I keep hearing this nonsense about Tory policy being to "target" the homeless, and that there's a "deliberate" plan to keep these numbers high.

I mean, I'd never vote Conservative, I dislike May (and think her party are making a real fucking mess of everything) - but why do the Left keep pushing these preposterous allegations? Fuck knows there's enough there that's valid to attack!


I like you a lot John, but sometimes your naivety on such matters staggers me.
No one is saying the Tories are so evil that they enjoy watching people die on the streets. But their housing policy ( with the exception of the consensual policies of the McMillan Government) has always favoured the privatisation and profitisation, almost always at the cost of care and provision, of housing and giving greater powers to landlords and wealthy developers. There is a long and complex history to this, but the upshot of it is a housing market that it is no longer affordable to many, whether we are talking renting or buying, and people living in slum conditions. We are now at the point of such crisis that even many Tories ( at least the few that don't have substantial property investment) see something must be done. And yes the effect of such policies has been homelessness among other things.

User avatar
The Modernist
2018 BCB Cup Champ!
Posts: 12876
Joined: 13 Apr 2014, 20:42

Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby The Modernist » 10 Oct 2018, 13:49

Goat Boy wrote:
HEN wrote:Such dribbling half-baked crap.

I keep hearing this nonsense about Tory policy being to "target" the homeless, and that there's a "deliberate" plan to keep these numbers high.

I mean, I'd never vote Conservative, I dislike May (and think her party are making a real fucking mess of everything) - but why do the Left keep pushing these preposterous allegations? Fuck knows there's enough there that's valid to attack!


Have you met these people?

Of course it exists on both sides, the conspiratorial hatred of "libtards" is just as irrational but there you go. The Tories are cartoonish villains, sitting around large desks puffing cigars and cackling loudly as they discuss how they can fuck the poor over.

This mindset is so deeply ingrained that some never escape it and it's getting worse I think.


See my above post Dougie. Housing is a massively important issue.

User avatar
Goat Boy
Bogarting the joint
Posts: 32795
Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 12:11
Location: In the perfumed garden

Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Goat Boy » 10 Oct 2018, 13:54

The Modernist wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:
HEN wrote:Such dribbling half-baked crap.

I keep hearing this nonsense about Tory policy being to "target" the homeless, and that there's a "deliberate" plan to keep these numbers high.

I mean, I'd never vote Conservative, I dislike May (and think her party are making a real fucking mess of everything) - but why do the Left keep pushing these preposterous allegations? Fuck knows there's enough there that's valid to attack!


Have you met these people?

Of course it exists on both sides, the conspiratorial hatred of "libtards" is just as irrational but there you go. The Tories are cartoonish villains, sitting around large desks puffing cigars and cackling loudly as they discuss how they can fuck the poor over.

This mindset is so deeply ingrained that some never escape it and it's getting worse I think.


See my above post Dougie. Housing is a massively important issue.


Of course it is and some Tories ideological dogma undoubtedly contributes to the problem. We are seeing something similar with Brexit. But what Coan is talking about is peoples perceptions of The Other Lot and how simplistic and prejudiced they can be.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

User avatar
Deebank
Resonator
Posts: 23257
Joined: 10 Oct 2003, 13:47
Location: In a beautiful place out in the country

Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Deebank » 10 Oct 2018, 13:55

I’m reminded of the cheers that went up each time a cut to a public service was announced in parliament back in 2010.

That happened.
I've been talking about writing a book - 25 years of TEFL - for a few years now. I've got it in me.

Paid anghofio fod dy galon yn y chwyldro

User avatar
The Modernist
2018 BCB Cup Champ!
Posts: 12876
Joined: 13 Apr 2014, 20:42

Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby The Modernist » 10 Oct 2018, 13:58

Goat Boy wrote:
Of course it is and some Tories ideological dogma undoubtedly contributes to the problem.


It doesn't just contribute to the problem, it's a root cause and they should be called out on it.

User avatar
Goat Boy
Bogarting the joint
Posts: 32795
Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 12:11
Location: In the perfumed garden

Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Goat Boy » 10 Oct 2018, 14:01

The Modernist wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:
Of course it is and some Tories ideological dogma undoubtedly contributes to the problem.


It doesn't just contribute to the problem, it's a root cause and they should be called out on it.


Ideological dogma is always a problem.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

User avatar
The Modernist
2018 BCB Cup Champ!
Posts: 12876
Joined: 13 Apr 2014, 20:42

Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby The Modernist » 10 Oct 2018, 14:02

Of course, but it's not just ideological. Greed lies at the heart of it.

User avatar
Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings
hounds people off the board
Posts: 19656
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: selling a self-detonating James Last CD to a Copenhagen thrift store

Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 10 Oct 2018, 14:04

The Modernist wrote:
HEN wrote:Such dribbling half-baked crap.

I keep hearing this nonsense about Tory policy being to "target" the homeless, and that there's a "deliberate" plan to keep these numbers high.

I mean, I'd never vote Conservative, I dislike May (and think her party are making a real fucking mess of everything) - but why do the Left keep pushing these preposterous allegations? Fuck knows there's enough there that's valid to attack!


I like you a lot John, but sometimes your naivety on such matters staggers me.


It's nothing to do with naivety (or the lack of it) - I'm pointing out what I hear and read, time and time again, from so-called socialists who portray the Tories as evil bastards whose only purpose on earth is to line their own pockets and fuck everyone else over. THAT'S what's naive.


The Modernist wrote:No one is saying the Tories are so evil that they enjoy watching people die on the streets.


You're not watching the same TV programmes as I am, clearly!
GoogaMooga wrote:There's this joke about cowbells in the States, "More cowbell, we need more cowbell!".

User avatar
Toby
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23587
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Toby » 10 Oct 2018, 14:05

The Modernist wrote:
HEN wrote:Such dribbling half-baked crap.

I keep hearing this nonsense about Tory policy being to "target" the homeless, and that there's a "deliberate" plan to keep these numbers high.

I mean, I'd never vote Conservative, I dislike May (and think her party are making a real fucking mess of everything) - but why do the Left keep pushing these preposterous allegations? Fuck knows there's enough there that's valid to attack!


I like you a lot John, but sometimes your naivety on such matters staggers me.
No one is saying the Tories are so evil that they enjoy watching people die on the streets. But their housing policy ( with the exception of the consensual policies of the McMillan Government) has always favoured the privatisation and profitisation, almost always at the cost of care and provision, of housing and giving greater powers to landlords and wealthy developers. There is a long and complex history to this, but the upshot of it is a housing market that it is no longer affordable to many, whether we are talking renting or buying, and people living in slum conditions. We are now at the point of such crisis that even many Tories ( at least the few that don't have substantial property investment) see something must be done. And yes the effect of such policies has been homelessness among other things.



I think that's a bit myopic. The fact is that the availability of new housing is the ultimate root and cause of the inflated market. No government has been able to hit the 350K a year target for new houses since the late 60's and in this respect it's a problem shared by both Labour and Tories. One of the core dogmas of Tory philosophy is property - to own your own home - and I think in many regards, what with the cack-handed right to buy policy, there has been a drive to get people on the housing market, not appreciating that of course it created as many problems as it solved - showing that intervention by the state is often perilous. The last major drive in building was under Thatcher.

Image

The Green Belt act - which prevents a considerable number of houses being built - was a Labour policy. But would you renege on the destruction of our countryside? Like all of these things, they are extremely complex problems.

User avatar
The Modernist
2018 BCB Cup Champ!
Posts: 12876
Joined: 13 Apr 2014, 20:42

Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby The Modernist » 10 Oct 2018, 14:11

Toby you know as well as I do, there was a concerted policy to remove housing provision, and the responsibility for it, from the state and entirely to the private market. Local authorities were neutered so effectively that not only could new homes not be built, but they were forced to sell off or place under the control of private housing associations, the ones they did have. The results of this have been disastrous. But it was a very deliberate policy and let's be honest about that.

User avatar
Toby
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23587
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Toby » 10 Oct 2018, 14:14

Lots of people benefitted from it though (including a whole swathe of 50-something Labour voters who bought properties in Zone 2 back in the 80s that are now worth 7 figures). I agree that the sale of council housing stock was without doubt problematic. The history of this particular decision and its ramifications has yet to be written, although there was a good book about housing written a couple of years ago.

User avatar
The Modernist
2018 BCB Cup Champ!
Posts: 12876
Joined: 13 Apr 2014, 20:42

Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby The Modernist » 10 Oct 2018, 14:33

It was wrong Toby, not just problematic. I don't object to people buying their own council homes ( ironically it was an idea that was very close to being adopted by the Callaghan government) by the way, but it was done as a way of destroying local authority provision..that was what was so wrong about it.

User avatar
Deebank
Resonator
Posts: 23257
Joined: 10 Oct 2003, 13:47
Location: In a beautiful place out in the country

Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Deebank » 10 Oct 2018, 14:51

The money from selling off council houses should have been ring-fenced for new council housing but it wasn't.
I've been talking about writing a book - 25 years of TEFL - for a few years now. I've got it in me.

Paid anghofio fod dy galon yn y chwyldro