Roma in the Czech Rep

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 06 Oct 2018, 10:33



As some of you know, I lived in Prague for many years - the Roma there were undoubtedly a problem, but in cities like Most it's much worse.

Is it 'dehumanising' to put them in a separate area? isn't that what they want too?

And the slogan that C4 news says is reminiscent of some kind of Final Solution Nazi-era ideology isn't necessarily so - they want to solve the problem 'once and for all'.
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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby The Modernist » 06 Oct 2018, 10:44

HEN wrote:.

Is it 'dehumanising' to put them in a separate area? isn't that what they want too?

.


I can't believe you're asking that question in all seriousness. You can't start forcibly dividing people according to their ethnicity. Does it really need me to explain what that leads to?

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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 06 Oct 2018, 10:50

Many Roma hate the Czechs themselves and don't want to be integrated.

It's a complex, age-old problem and I don't really see a solution, but housing Roma families next to Czech workers is guaranteed to create all kinds of problems.
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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Toby » 06 Oct 2018, 11:02

The Roma live on the edge of society. In a world of fixed borders and stark identities, they either integrate into society and lose what makes them Roma, or they keep their identity but suffer the problems that come with that. It’s a very difficult situation to resolve - I suspect it’s impossible frankly. As John says, the Czechs hate the Roma. There have been long standing issues with Uschi Nad Labem for years.

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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 06 Oct 2018, 12:03

Usti!

I love Usti. Real fucking shithole tho'

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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Goat Boy » 06 Oct 2018, 12:26

Maybe for their own safety they need to be kept separate although obviously I understand reservations.

What do you do? You see it with traveller communities in this country. They keep to themselves and they don't want to integrate. There is suspicion on both sides and the anti-social elements within that community exacerbate negative perceptions about them which of course makes integration more difficult.
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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 06 Oct 2018, 12:38

Have you seen the clip? It was broadcast last night. It's fascinating stuff. I forgot how ignorant Czechs can be. But unfortunately many of them have had stuff taken from them by Roma. They're just not very....enlightened
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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Goat Boy » 06 Oct 2018, 12:54

Looks grim mate.

When I look at traveller communities the question I ask myself is, would their quality of life be better if they did integrate? It's like by holding onto their identity in this way they are actually making things worse for themselves.
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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Butch Manly » 06 Oct 2018, 14:42

What do you mean by "integrated"? I only ask because it is always bandied around as if people know exactly what the problem is, where the roots of the problems lie and with an underlying belief that the "problem" lies completely with the Roma and not the rest of society. The Czechs hate the Roma and the Roma hate the Czechs, it seems, but how much is it a two-way street?

If it is a two-way street - one of mutual distrust and contempt - what can the non-Roma Czechs do to make relations better? Merely moving them to designated areas is dehumanising and, surely, history tells us that it will also be self-defeating in the long run.

I think we need to be very careful of sleepwalking into that creeping fascist/nationalist way of viewing our social problems.
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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Deebank » 06 Oct 2018, 16:06

Surely everyone has the right to live their life as they please.

If they break the law then they should be held to account otherwise I don't see why I should dictate to anyone else how they live.

It is that simple isn't it?
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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 06 Oct 2018, 17:50

No.
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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Toby » 06 Oct 2018, 18:11

Deebank wrote:Surely everyone has the right to live their life as they please.

If they break the law then they should be held to account otherwise I don't see why I should dictate to anyone else how they live.

It is that simple isn't it?


What if someone's way of life actively impinges on another's way of life?

You seem to have a hopelessly simplistic view on this.

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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Deebank » 06 Oct 2018, 18:21

Toby wrote:
Deebank wrote:Surely everyone has the right to live their life as they please.

If they break the law then they should be held to account otherwise I don't see why I should dictate to anyone else how they live.

It is that simple isn't it?


What if someone's way of life actively impinges on another's way of life?

You seem to have a hopelessly simplistic view on this.


Impinges? How do you mean?

If it’s serious there should be legal redress.
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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Butch Manly » 06 Oct 2018, 18:51

HEN wrote:No.


I agree. You have to think about children's rights, for a start. How do you square the circle of presenting children with the best opportunities in life with respecting the culture of a people? It's a conundrum.
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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Butch Manly » 06 Oct 2018, 18:55

Toby wrote:
What if someone's way of life actively impinges on another's way of life?


Have you ever considered that our way of life might impinge enormously on that of the Roma?

You seem to have a hopelessly simplistic view on this.


As do you.
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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby The Modernist » 06 Oct 2018, 18:56

Toby wrote:
Deebank wrote:Surely everyone has the right to live their life as they please.

If they break the law then they should be held to account otherwise I don't see why I should dictate to anyone else how they live.

It is that simple isn't it?


What if someone's way of life actively impinges on another's way of life?

You seem to have a hopelessly simplistic view on this.


You can't force people to live a certain way, but you can make sure that they are given the same opportunities and legal protection as any other member of society. Segregation is never an answer.

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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby $P.Muff$ » 06 Oct 2018, 19:37

The Modernist wrote:Segregation is never an answer.


What about self-imposed segregation?

Do you find fault with minority groups who have long histories of being oppressed who see it as preferable to build and live in communties amongst 'their own'?

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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 06 Oct 2018, 19:39

This idea of segregation gets people's backs up, doesn't it?

They're provided with homes in a community which is separate from the rest of the town's population. Why is that a bad thing? I'll say it again - you're going to have more problems if they're housed with everybody else.
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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 06 Oct 2018, 19:44

Darkness_Fish wrote:This is a big fucking mess of absolute shit from the off.

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Re: Roma in the Czech Rep

Postby yomptepi » 06 Oct 2018, 20:07

Pansy Puff wrote:Well the school inspectorate expects schools to impact in the progress of Roma pupils in exactly the same way as any other group. Therefore schools strive to make Roma students act like all others students.
But their lives are totally different. I'm not surprised that the board's arch Tory thinks people have a simplistic view of this.
Let's put them in some area, or ghetto, if you will.


You must have had some experience at your school with Travelers who are forced to attend but have absolutely no interest in participating. We worked at a school in East Acton which had a traveler camp in its catchment area. The school was failing because firstly the children rarely stayed long enough to assessed properly, and secondly because they did not think the school had anything to teach them, so the children were late, or left during the day, if they even bothered to turn up. The real problem was that the government at the time had this points system in place which linked performance to funding ( one of Blair's fine ideas) so every year the school was getting less and less money because their performance was so poor, when what they needed was more money to help the kids.

I don't think there is any solution to the problems traveler or Gypsy families bring to society. We have to find ways to tolerate them , and try and encourage them to contribute , rather than seeing the rest of society as something to prey on. Their refusal to learn and to change makes this a challenge that only time and patience can resolve. Certainly they can make life very difficult for ordinary people. We just have to be the better people and be tolerant and understanding, whilst at the same time being firm and resilient to their antics. Unfortunately they don't give a fuck.
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