Labour GOOOD! Tory BAAAD!

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Butch Manly
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Re: impressive Labour Party figures of the past

Postby Butch Manly » 31 Aug 2018, 23:27

Toby wrote:
Butch Manly wrote:
Toby wrote:There is no perfect system and I'm sure no one would care if Labour won the election even if the Tories got more votes.

The point is that for all the achievements of the Attlee government and how it is talked about in hindsight, things were not so clear cut at the time.


I must admit, I do read all your posts in a Jacob Rees-Mogg voice these days. You literally have no insight to offer whatsoever. It's ALL " I am happy in my nice middle-class existence and I quite enjoy sneering at other people who think that this country could and should be better for them."


And I read all yours in a Citizen Smith "FREE THE OPPRESSED OF TOOTING" voice.


The thing is, lad, people really are oppressed. Not that you give a fuck.
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Re: impressive Labour Party figures of the past

Postby Butch Manly » 31 Aug 2018, 23:30

"The Attlee government was so impressive that they lost the next election to a 76 year old Churchill."

I mean, for fuck's sake.
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Re: impressive Labour Party figures of the past

Postby Butch Manly » 31 Aug 2018, 23:34

yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:

Image
The Tory's fiscal credibility is a myth that only dullards believe, hence the above.



All that graph shows is how debt under Labour grew faster and faster until the economy collapsed. The fact that the tories have failed to settle the economic problems and make the economy grow again is a different discussion. The facts are that Labour crashed the economy. Gordon Brown was a Blair enabler.He was complicit in Blair's crimes. He was a disgrace as a chancellor, and catastrophe as prime minister. The reason we still have no money is because the economy has never recovered from his wretched tinkering.


The reason that we have no money is because of the global financial crisis which was brought about by neoliberal money grabbing.
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Re: impressive Labour Party figures of the past

Postby Copehead » 01 Sep 2018, 06:41

yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:

Image
The Tory's fiscal credibility is a myth that only dullards believe, hence the above.



All that graph shows is how debt under Labour grew faster and faster until the economy collapsed. The fact that the tories have failed to settle the economic problems and make the economy grow again is a different discussion. The facts are that Labour crashed the economy. Gordon Brown was a Blair enabler.He was complicit in Blair's crimes. He was a disgrace as a chancellor, and catastrophe as prime minister. The reason we still have no money is because the economy has never recovered from his wretched tinkering.


I told you not try interpreting it on your own.

It shows nothing of the sort, it shows that Labour were working with historicly low levels of debt and deficit until there was an international banking crisis, that even you are no longer stupid enough to blame them for, then debt started to shoot up but at the time of the 2010 election they had curbed its rise.

then the Tories took over, brought in austerity and royally screwed everything up and continue to do so.

It is pretty self explanatory
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Re: impressive Labour Party figures of the past

Postby Pansy Puff » 01 Sep 2018, 07:27

Time to explain gradients to Yomp.
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Re: impressive Labour Party figures of the past

Postby Copehead » 01 Sep 2018, 10:41

Pansy Puff wrote:Time to explain gradients to Yomp.


You're the teacher
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Re: impressive Labour Party figures of the past

Postby yomptepi » 01 Sep 2018, 10:44

Copehead wrote:
It shows nothing of the sort, it shows that Labour were working with historicly low levels of debt and deficit until there was an international banking crisis, that even you are no longer stupid enough to blame them for, then debt started to shoot up but at the time of the 2010 election they had curbed its rise.

then the Tories took over, brought in austerity and royally screwed everything up and continue to do so.

It is pretty self explanatory

So how do you explain all the countries that avoided exposure to the crisis then. Brown bought into the American deregulation and borrowing boom wholesale, and left us completely exposed to the crash. You can make all the excuses you like, and you can be as sneering and supercilious as you want. But the facts are that our economy was ruined after ten years of Labour government. It was ruined bad by decision making , personal greed and a desperation to do everything the Americans wanted us to do. Including an illegal war which cost hundreds of billions of pounds.. These people are indefensible. I cannot understand why you feel the need to defend them. If it had been a tory government at the time we would never have heard the last of it.
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Re: impressive Labour Party figures of the past

Postby yomptepi » 01 Sep 2018, 10:44

Copehead wrote:
Pansy Puff wrote:Time to explain gradients to Yomp.


You're the teacher


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: impressive Labour Party figures of the past

Postby Lord Rother » 01 Sep 2018, 10:44

Copehead wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:

Image
The Tory's fiscal credibility is a myth that only dullards believe, hence the above.



All that graph shows is how debt under Labour grew faster and faster until the economy collapsed. The fact that the tories have failed to settle the economic problems and make the economy grow again is a different discussion. The facts are that Labour crashed the economy. Gordon Brown was a Blair enabler.He was complicit in Blair's crimes. He was a disgrace as a chancellor, and catastrophe as prime minister. The reason we still have no money is because the economy has never recovered from his wretched tinkering.


I told you not try interpreting it on your own.

It shows nothing of the sort, it shows that Labour were working with historicly low levels of debt and deficit until there was an international banking crisis, that even you are no longer stupid enough to blame them for, then debt started to shoot up but at the time of the 2010 election they had curbed its rise.

then the Tories took over, brought in austerity and royally screwed everything up and continue to do so.

It is pretty self explanatory


I do not get involved in political discussions on here as I am quite obviously too far beneath the intellectual levels required but I just have to reply something to this post.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: impressive Labour Party figures of the past

Postby yomptepi » 01 Sep 2018, 10:46

Having said that. I think it impossible to defend the conservatives management of the economy since they have been in power. But Labour have to take the blame for initiating the crisis.
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Re: impressive Labour Party figures of the past

Postby Copehead » 01 Sep 2018, 11:03

yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:
It shows nothing of the sort, it shows that Labour were working with historicly low levels of debt and deficit until there was an international banking crisis, that even you are no longer stupid enough to blame them for, then debt started to shoot up but at the time of the 2010 election they had curbed its rise.

then the Tories took over, brought in austerity and royally screwed everything up and continue to do so.

It is pretty self explanatory

So how do you explain all the countries that avoided exposure to the crisis then. Brown bought into the American deregulation and borrowing boom wholesale, and left us completely exposed to the crash. You can make all the excuses you like, and you can be as sneering and supercilious as you want. But the facts are that our economy was ruined after ten years of Labour government. It was ruined bad by decision making , personal greed and a desperation to do everything the Americans wanted us to do. Including an illegal war which cost hundreds of billions of pounds.. These people are indefensible. I cannot understand why you feel the need to defend them.


I don't think any major economies totally avoided exposure to the banking crisis but, as the name suggests, this was a crisis in the banking and wider financial services industry and guess which economy decided to put as many of its eggs as it could in that basket from the late 80s onwards.....

No clues, I know you know this one.

Countries that had invested heavily in their manufacturing industry, like France and Germany - and those that are resource economies - like Australia, Canada and, to an extent, Russia - which much less effected, resource economies actually thrived as resources were often used as hedges against housing and other financial products that were crashing.

I really should get paid for taking you through this you know, I am too kind.

The Labour Party bought into the banking economy because it feared, probably quite rightly, that it would be crucified by the press if it didn't. I have already said, quite frequently, the the cowardice in the face of the press was one of the great failings of the Labour government and one it doesn't look like the next one is in any danger of making thankfully. People like you would have had a thrombo if Brown had suggested curbing teh excesses of the city to to bleat about it now seems mightily hypocritical in my view.

How ever much the Labour Party ruined the economy that graph, which will have its gradients explained to you shortly, shows the Tories have made it far worse and also managed to fuck up housing, health, education, roads, local services and disability benefits.
That is quite impressive in some ways, you wouldn't think such economic incompetence was actually possible, but Osborne and his followers have managed it - Chapeau!

If it had been a tory government at the time we would never have heard the last of it.


I am assuming this is a clever joke.
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Re: impressive Labour Party figures of the past

Postby Copehead » 01 Sep 2018, 11:09

yomptepi wrote:Having said that. I think it impossible to defend the conservatives management of the economy since they have been in power. But Labour have to take the blame for initiating the crisis.


I know what you are driving at and sort of agree but labour didn't initiate the crisis they were just in power when the US sub-prime lending bubble burst.

I think we can blame them for not curbing the banking industry before the crash but it was a move that would have been incredibly unpopular, not least with people like you - killing the goose that was laying the golden egg etc. Unfortunately it stopped laying golden eggs and did a mighty great shit from on high on Gordon Brown.

That does not excuse the gross incompetence that followed and the glee taken in punishing the poorest and most unwell amongst us, parts of that have been truly evil.
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Re: impressive Labour Party figures of the past

Postby yomptepi » 01 Sep 2018, 12:09

Copehead wrote:
yomptepi wrote:Having said that. I think it impossible to defend the conservatives management of the economy since they have been in power. But Labour have to take the blame for initiating the crisis.


I know what you are driving at and sort of agree but labour didn't initiate the crisis they were just in power when the US sub-prime lending bubble burst.

I think we can blame them for not curbing the banking industry before the crash but it was a move that would have been incredibly unpopular, not least with people like you - killing the goose that was laying the golden egg etc. Unfortunately it stopped laying golden eggs and did a mighty great shit from on high on Gordon Brown.

That does not excuse the gross incompetence that followed and the glee taken in punishing the poorest and most unwell amongst us, parts of that have been truly evil.


I think that is what I said, but well done for co opting it.
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Re: impressive Labour Party figures of the past

Postby yomptepi » 01 Sep 2018, 12:14

Copehead wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:
It shows nothing of the sort, it shows that Labour were working with historicly low levels of debt and deficit until there was an international banking crisis, that even you are no longer stupid enough to blame them for, then debt started to shoot up but at the time of the 2010 election they had curbed its rise.

then the Tories took over, brought in austerity and royally screwed everything up and continue to do so.

It is pretty self explanatory

So how do you explain all the countries that avoided exposure to the crisis then. Brown bought into the American deregulation and borrowing boom wholesale, and left us completely exposed to the crash. You can make all the excuses you like, and you can be as sneering and supercilious as you want. But the facts are that our economy was ruined after ten years of Labour government. It was ruined bad by decision making , personal greed and a desperation to do everything the Americans wanted us to do. Including an illegal war which cost hundreds of billions of pounds.. These people are indefensible. I cannot understand why you feel the need to defend them.


I don't think any major economies totally avoided exposure to the banking crisis but, as the name suggests, this was a crisis in the banking and wider financial services industry and guess which economy decided to put as many of its eggs as it could in that basket from the late 80s onwards.....

No clues, I know you know this one.

Countries that had invested heavily in their manufacturing industry, like France and Germany - and those that are resource economies - like Australia, Canada and, to an extent, Russia - which much less effected, resource economies actually thrived as resources were often used as hedges against housing and other financial products that were crashing.

I really should get paid for taking you through this you know, I am too kind..


Clearly I already knew that. You don't get points for explaining what I was telling you.

Copehead wrote:The Labour Party bought into the banking economy because it feared, probably quite rightly, that it would be crucified by the press if it didn't. I have already said, quite frequently, the the cowardice in the face of the press was one of the great failings of the Labour government and one it doesn't look like the next one is in any danger of making thankfully. People like you would have had a thrombo if Brown had suggested curbing teh excesses of the city to to bleat about it now seems mightily hypocritical in my view.


So you are agreeing that they were weak and greedy then. Again, you don't get points for explaining what I have just told you.

Copehead wrote:How ever much the Labour Party ruined the economy that graph, which will have its gradients explained to you shortly, shows the Tories have made it far worse and also managed to fuck up housing, health, education, roads, local services and disability benefits.
That is quite impressive in some ways, you wouldn't think such economic incompetence was actually possible, but Osborne and his followers have managed it - Chapeau!


I have never argued that they did. That is all in your twisted imagination.[/quote]

If it had been a tory government at the time we would never have heard the last of it.


I am assuming this is a clever joke.


Or irony as we English call it.
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Re: impressive Labour Party figures of the past

Postby Copehead » 01 Sep 2018, 12:26

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Re: impressive Labour Party figures of the past

Postby Copehead » 01 Sep 2018, 12:28

yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:
yomptepi wrote:Having said that. I think it impossible to defend the conservatives management of the economy since they have been in power. But Labour have to take the blame for initiating the crisis.


I know what you are driving at and sort of agree but labour didn't initiate the crisis they were just in power when the US sub-prime lending bubble burst.

I think we can blame them for not curbing the banking industry before the crash but it was a move that would have been incredibly unpopular, not least with people like you - killing the goose that was laying the golden egg etc. Unfortunately it stopped laying golden eggs and did a mighty great shit from on high on Gordon Brown.

That does not excuse the gross incompetence that followed and the glee taken in punishing the poorest and most unwell amongst us, parts of that have been truly evil.


I think that is what I said, but well done for co opting it.


Yes apart from the important bit I disagreed with. I have highlighted that for you
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Re: impressive Labour Party figures of the past

Postby Copehead » 01 Sep 2018, 12:29

yomptepi wrote:
Or irony as we English call it.



Anti-semite! :o
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Re: impressive Labour Party figures of the past

Postby yomptepi » 01 Sep 2018, 12:39

Copehead wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:
I know what you are driving at and sort of agree but labour didn't initiate the crisis they were just in power when the US sub-prime lending bubble burst.

I think we can blame them for not curbing the banking industry before the crash but it was a move that would have been incredibly unpopular, not least with people like you - killing the goose that was laying the golden egg etc. Unfortunately it stopped laying golden eggs and did a mighty great shit from on high on Gordon Brown.

That does not excuse the gross incompetence that followed and the glee taken in punishing the poorest and most unwell amongst us, parts of that have been truly evil.


I think that is what I said, but well done for co opting it.


Yes apart from the important bit I disagreed with. I have highlighted that for you


But you also accepted that by not regulating the banks they exposed us to the crash. So which is it?
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Re: Labour GOOOD! Tory BAAAD!

Postby Toby » 01 Sep 2018, 13:18

B O R I N G

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Re: Labour GOOOD! Tory BAAAD!

Postby Butch Manly » 01 Sep 2018, 14:47

Toby wrote:B O R I N G



As I have already said, you never have anything intelligent or insightful to add to these threads. You just ghost in, make an "I'm superior to all this" remark then fuck off, like a toff who's just trashed a restaurant.

Unimpressive.
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