Brexit Countdown

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby C. » 29 Nov 2018, 11:26

Toby wrote:No I think it’s rubbish frankly. The left encourages people to extol their virtue without actually doing anything about it.


Caring isn't the same as doing. I'm talking about character traits and not actions. And I don't see the Left doing any more 'encouraging' than the Right when it comes to signalling virtues (or lack of them).


Toby wrote:Marxist dialectic encourages the creation of identities with moral hues. So if you are against immigration you are a racist and a bigot. If you find the employment of women in what are traditionally male roles to be problematic you are a misogynist. If you find the creation of a free health service to everyone to be problematic, you are a shit etc etc. You are typefying the issue.


That's a whole other argument. I'm not talking about Marxism here, I'm thinking about that large mass of people (in the UK) who ally themselves with the Left, generally.
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Toby » 29 Nov 2018, 11:49

Dividing character traits and aligning them with political viewpoints is just wrong. To say that people with certain traits vote right or left just seems massively simplistic.

I get what you are saying to a certain extent, in that you will get stereotypical "they just need to pull their socks up" and " The poor need help" views, but I don't think you can neatly divide them between the two lines.

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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby C. » 29 Nov 2018, 11:56

Toby wrote:Dividing character traits and aligning them with political viewpoints is just wrong. To say that people with certain traits vote right or left just seems massively simplistic.


It is simplistic, yes, but it is something you tend to find.

And I'm going in the other direction - people who vote left tend to be such-and-such (it does make a difference).

Ever met a Young Conservative?
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Lord Rother wrote:Big Big Train’s Gregory Spawton sums it up pretty well

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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Samoan » 29 Nov 2018, 12:10

The Bulfine Papers (1917) wrote:Left-wingers are more caring, more sensitive people anyway. That's what I always, always find.

Take a look at your self.
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby The Prof » 29 Nov 2018, 12:33

Are you saying he doesn't hound people off the board in caring, sensitive way?

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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Still Baron » 29 Nov 2018, 13:02

Toby wrote:So if you are against immigration you are a racist and a bigot. If you find the employment of women in what are traditionally male roles to be problematic you are a misogynist. If you find the creation of a free health service to everyone to be problematic, you are a shit etc etc.


Well that’s certainly been my experience! Sounds about right.
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Still Baron » 29 Nov 2018, 13:03

The Bulfine Papers (1917) wrote:Ever met a Young Conservative?


Hundreds. I’ve liked a handful.
Quaco wrote:Are you fucking high?

take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby $P.Muff$ » 29 Nov 2018, 13:42

Toby wrote:If conservative thought was not linked to age, why have the Conservatives been so successful?


Oftentimes as people age, they become quite lazy (whether it be in thought or in action), insular, forgetful, greedy, bitter, uncaring & afraid. No wonder conservative propaganda appeals to them. It is an ideology of the fearfully small-minded cloaked in grand soundbites.

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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Diamond Dog » 29 Nov 2018, 13:44

LeBaron wrote:
Toby wrote:So if you are against immigration you are a racist and a bigot. If you find the employment of women in what are traditionally male roles to be problematic you are a misogynist. If you find the creation of a free health service to everyone to be problematic, you are a shit etc etc.


Well that’s certainly been my experience! Sounds about right.


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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Robert » 29 Nov 2018, 13:48

Labour shifts on a second referendum

By James Blitz (FT)
November 29, 2018

Is Labour moving towards giving formal support for a second referendum on Brexit? This is the question many at Westminster are asking after John McDonnell’s comments this week which seem to endorse the idea.

Until now Labour has had a somewhat open-ended approach to Brexit policy.

It opposes Theresa May’s deal. The party says that if the deal is rejected by the Commons, it will call for a general election. It says that if it fails to get Commons backing for that, it will then look at a range of options, including a “People's Vote”.

On Wednesday, shadow chancellor John McDonnell seemed to shift the dial significantly towards that second referendum outcome.

As he put it in a BBC interview: “We should have a general election but that’s very difficult. If that’s not possible we’ll be calling upon the government then to join us in the public vote . . . That’s the sequence I think that we’ll inevitably go through over this period.”
Mr McDonnell was pressed on whether a second referendum was “inevitable” if there was no general election. He replied: “That’s right.”

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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Toby » 29 Nov 2018, 13:54

$P.Muff$ wrote:
Toby wrote:If conservative thought was not linked to age, why have the Conservatives been so successful?


Oftentimes as people age, they become quite lazy (whether it be in thought or in action), insular, forgetful, greedy, bitter, uncaring & afraid. No wonder conservative propaganda appeals to them. It is an ideology of the fearfully small-minded cloaked in grand soundbites.



Does everyone though? You are making grand assumptions.

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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby $P.Muff$ » 29 Nov 2018, 13:55

Toby wrote:A good maxim is - the left want to share the wealth, but the right create it in the first place.


Utter nonsense as usual. Workers create wealth. They are people. Not right. Not left.

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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby $P.Muff$ » 29 Nov 2018, 13:56

Toby wrote:
$P.Muff$ wrote:
Toby wrote:If conservative thought was not linked to age, why have the Conservatives been so successful?


Oftentimes as people age, they become quite lazy (whether it be in thought or in action), insular, forgetful, greedy, bitter, uncaring & afraid. No wonder conservative propaganda appeals to them. It is an ideology of the fearfully small-minded cloaked in grand soundbites.



Does everyone though? You are making grand assumptions.


Did I say everyone?

No. Some are lazy, greedy bastards from the get-go.

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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby C. » 29 Nov 2018, 14:00

Samoan wrote:
The Bulfine Papers (1917) wrote:Left-wingers are more caring, more sensitive people anyway. That's what I always, always find.

Take a look at your self.


Absolutely!
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Lord Rother wrote:Big Big Train’s Gregory Spawton sums it up pretty well

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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Goat Boy » 29 Nov 2018, 14:08

The Bulfine Papers (1917) wrote:
Samoan wrote:
The Bulfine Papers (1917) wrote:Left-wingers are more caring, more sensitive people anyway. That's what I always, always find.

Take a look at your self.


Absolutely!


You little liar!
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:a right wing cretin like Berger....bleating about racism

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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Toby » 29 Nov 2018, 14:14

$P.Muff$ wrote:
Toby wrote:A good maxim is - the left want to share the wealth, but the right create it in the first place.


Utter nonsense as usual. Workers create wealth. They are people. Not right. Not left.


Who employs the workers?

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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby The Prof » 29 Nov 2018, 14:15

Robert wrote:Labour shifts on a second referendum

By James Blitz (FT)
November 29, 2018

Is Labour moving towards giving formal support for a second referendum on Brexit? This is the question many at Westminster are asking after John McDonnell’s comments this week which seem to endorse the idea.

Until now Labour has had a somewhat open-ended approach to Brexit policy.

It opposes Theresa May’s deal. The party says that if the deal is rejected by the Commons, it will call for a general election. It says that if it fails to get Commons backing for that, it will then look at a range of options, including a “People's Vote”.

On Wednesday, shadow chancellor John McDonnell seemed to shift the dial significantly towards that second referendum outcome.

As he put it in a BBC interview: “We should have a general election but that’s very difficult. If that’s not possible we’ll be calling upon the government then to join us in the public vote . . . That’s the sequence I think that we’ll inevitably go through over this period.”
Mr McDonnell was pressed on whether a second referendum was “inevitable” if there was no general election. He replied: “That’s right.”


I saw that.
In another interview a few weeks ago he was asked *if* there was a general election and *if* Labour won, would they support a 2nd referendum to which he dodged the question.
Seemingly the only option to scrap Brexit is to keep the Tories in power.

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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby C. » 29 Nov 2018, 14:30

Goat Boy wrote:
The Bulfine Papers (1917) wrote:
Samoan wrote:Take a look at your self.


Absolutely!


You little liar!


:x

watch it or I'll get my HOUNDING KIT out for you
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Lord Rother wrote:Big Big Train’s Gregory Spawton sums it up pretty well

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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Goat Boy » 29 Nov 2018, 14:37

You left wing Brute!
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:a right wing cretin like Berger....bleating about racism

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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby $P.Muff$ » 29 Nov 2018, 14:43

Toby wrote:
$P.Muff$ wrote:
Toby wrote:A good maxim is - the left want to share the wealth, but the right create it in the first place.


Utter nonsense as usual. Workers create wealth. They are people. Not right. Not left.


Who employs the workers?


Experts in exploitation, typically.

Or as they're commonly referred to nowadays: entrepreneurs.