Brexit Countdown

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
User avatar
Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings
hounds people off the board
Posts: 19596
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: selling a self-detonating James Last CD to a Copenhagen thrift store

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 19 Nov 2018, 15:48

PENK wrote:Maybe it's all a ploy: he's frightened of all the responsibilities and decisions a Prime Minister has to make, so prefers to remain opposition leader where he can retain his popularity thanks to the Tories' weekly balls-ups.


That's exactly what it is.
Darkness_Fish wrote:This is a big fucking mess of absolute shit from the off.

User avatar
Copehead
BCB Cup Stalinist
Posts: 24190
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:51
Location: at sea

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Copehead » 19 Nov 2018, 16:14

PENK wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:More half assed fudging from the so called "opposition" leader.

Warning: might make your brain hurt...

https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/1064088901445459970

What has Britain done to deserve such idiots?


At times it's as if he doesn't want to win an election. He keeps missing all these fucking open goals.

Maybe it's all a ploy: he's frightened of all the responsibilities and decisions a Prime Minister has to make, so prefers to remain opposition leader where he can retain his popularity thanks to the Tories' weekly balls-ups.


To you they are open goals but he is successfully keeping a Labour coalition of Lexiteers and rabid Euromavens in some sort of order, keeping Labour around 40% in the polls and watching the Conservative Party spectacularly self destruct.

He has to balance a lot of plates so he doesn't end up like May; sitting on a very wobbly fence with lots of people supposedly on the left trying to pull him off it on to their side.

Masterful inaction is the winning strategy here regardless of him not doing what you want.

He isn't really doing what anyone wants, which is kind of the point.

Can you imagine the glee in the rightwing media, including BBC, if he allowed himself and the Party to become firmly identified with either side, they would rip him to pieces, they are trying at the moment but it isn't working because he clearly does no identify with either hard core leavers or Remainers.

His base position is - leave all options on the table wait for the Tories to destroy themselves and start from there.

It is unpopular with fanatics on both sides of the eu-divide but fuck em it is obviously successful
Nazi Punks, Nazi Punks, Nazi Punks, Fuck Off

Image

Bear baiting & dog fights a speciality.

User avatar
Goat Boy
Bogarting the joint
Posts: 32789
Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 12:11
Location: In the perfumed garden

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Goat Boy » 19 Nov 2018, 16:22

Earl E. Eel wrote:
PENK wrote:Maybe it's all a ploy: he's frightened of all the responsibilities and decisions a Prime Minister has to make, so prefers to remain opposition leader where he can retain his popularity thanks to the Tories' weekly balls-ups.


That's exactly what it is.


I became Labour leader by mistake!
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

User avatar
Darkness_Fish
Posts: 6382
Joined: 27 Jul 2015, 09:58

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Darkness_Fish » 19 Nov 2018, 17:18

Can we get to the important debate please. Is Brino pronounced to rhyme with rhino, or with Beano? Because I've already got Dexy's singing "Oh Breeno" going through my head.
Like fast-moving clouds casting shadows against a hillside, the melody-loop shuddered with a sense of the sublime, the awful unknowable majesty of the world.

User avatar
echolalia
Posts: 4596
Joined: 21 Jul 2006, 02:23
Location: Way Out West

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby echolalia » 19 Nov 2018, 23:50

An LRB article from September 2017 on the UK’s prospects in a no-deal scenario - at a year’s remove it brings a fresh and a dispassionate perspective to the debate, I think. There’s not much in there for the “leave means leave” crowd...

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v39/n18/swati-dhingra/how-not-to-do-trade-deals

User avatar
Polishgirl
Posts: 9151
Joined: 21 Dec 2009, 22:06

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Polishgirl » 20 Nov 2018, 08:19

1) we’re fucked
2) I hate feeling embarrassed to be British
3) May is hanging on and putting the onus on her MPs- if this deal fails, on your own heads be it - and you will be answerable to your constituents, who want whatever it is done ASAP.
echolalia wrote: I despise Prefab Sprout. It will be decades before “hot dog, jumping frog, Albuquerque” is surpassed as the most terrible lyric in pop history. That fucking bastard ruined all three things for me forever.

caramba
Posts: 500
Joined: 25 Aug 2016, 17:12

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby caramba » 20 Nov 2018, 08:52

Polishgirl wrote:1) we’re fucked
2) I hate feeling embarrassed to be British
3) May is hanging on and putting the onus on her MPs- if this deal fails, on your own heads be it - and you will be answerable to your constituents, who want whatever it is done ASAP.


For me one of the the saddest things about Brexit is the contempt for anyone who disagrees with your point of view that has been triggered on either side of the remain/stay divide.

Try as she might with the miners' strike, not even Thatcher managed to create such large-scale fear and loathing.

Thanks Mr. Cameron.

User avatar
Polishgirl
Posts: 9151
Joined: 21 Dec 2009, 22:06

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Polishgirl » 20 Nov 2018, 10:20

Well:

1 - you should perhaps note that I’m not braying for another referendum

2- there is contempt on both sides.
echolalia wrote: I despise Prefab Sprout. It will be decades before “hot dog, jumping frog, Albuquerque” is surpassed as the most terrible lyric in pop history. That fucking bastard ruined all three things for me forever.

User avatar
Toby
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23575
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Toby » 20 Nov 2018, 10:35

caramba wrote:
Try as she might with the miners' strike, not even Thatcher managed to create such large-scale fear and loathing.

Thanks Mr. Cameron.


I disagree. Brexit right now is existential. No-one actually knows what will happen. We have plenty of predictions of economic doom and as of yet it hasn’t happened. There will be a hit, no doubt, but the 2008 recession I suspect was far worse. The reality is that many people in this country are relatively recession proof. The City of London will be the western centre of finance for a period of time even if it, I suspect, loses its global status to Shanghai shortly.

Thatcher’s policy hit communities hard and immediately with pit closures.

What we have now is a soaring amplification of opinions due to social media. There is an intensity about it that we’ve not witnessed before, but right now we are not actually seeing anything that is hurting. I do agree however that the remain/leave dichotomy is being etched into relationships. Virtually all of my friends are vocal remainders of the left persuasion and I just don’t talk politics with them anymore.

User avatar
Goat Boy
Bogarting the joint
Posts: 32789
Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 12:11
Location: In the perfumed garden

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Goat Boy » 20 Nov 2018, 10:52

I’m moving to New York
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

User avatar
Robert
Posts: 1054
Joined: 27 Dec 2013, 13:24

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Robert » 20 Nov 2018, 11:12

Toby wrote:
caramba wrote:
Try as she might with the miners' strike, not even Thatcher managed to create such large-scale fear and loathing.

Thanks Mr. Cameron.


I disagree. Brexit right now is existential. No-one actually knows what will happen. We have plenty of predictions of economic doom and as of yet it hasn’t happened. There will be a hit, no doubt, but the 2008 recession I suspect was far worse. The reality is that many people in this country are relatively recession proof. The City of London will be the western centre of finance for a period of time even if it, I suspect, loses its global status to Shanghai shortly.

Thatcher’s policy hit communities hard and immediately with pit closures.

What we have now is a soaring amplification of opinions due to social media. There is an intensity about it that we’ve not witnessed before, but right now we are not actually seeing anything that is hurting. I do agree however that the remain/leave dichotomy is being etched into relationships. Virtually all of my friends are vocal remainders of the left persuasion and I just don’t talk politics with them anymore.


All that is fine but Brexit hasn't happened yet, so why would UK be hurt already now?

It's like saying you're going to drive your car into a tree and before doing so, are claiming it will be hurt free because you're still in one piece.

User avatar
Nuts
Posts: 540
Joined: 15 Jan 2013, 15:31

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Nuts » 20 Nov 2018, 11:21

I love reading Toby's posts, they never fail to raise a smile.
"The reality is that many people in this country are relatively recession proof."
I don't know what reality you're living in but can we all move there?
Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is the best…

User avatar
The Prof
Composing a revolutionary symphony
Posts: 45262
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:32
Location: A Metropolis of Discontent

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby The Prof » 20 Nov 2018, 11:30

caramba wrote:Try as she might with the miners' strike, not even Thatcher managed to create such large-scale fear and loathing.


That's not true.

There was at lease one murder during the Minder's Strike and the Battle or Orgreave was no People's March in London.
It was brutal and violent.
There may yet be deaths as a result of a No Deal but at the moment it's just arguing a lot.

User avatar
Geezee
Posts: 12371
Joined: 24 Jul 2003, 10:14
Location: Where joy divides into vision

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Geezee » 20 Nov 2018, 11:37

Toby wrote:
caramba wrote:
Try as she might with the miners' strike, not even Thatcher managed to create such large-scale fear and loathing.

Thanks Mr. Cameron.


I disagree. Brexit right now is existential. No-one actually knows what will happen. We have plenty of predictions of economic doom and as of yet it hasn’t happened.


So perhaps Brexit should have created less fear and loathing than the trade union disputes of the 1980s, but it appears to me that Caramba's assessment is still right (and of course paralleled in the US by the Trump versus non-Trump divide). I'm a bit too young to have directly experienced the day-to-day conversations of the miners' strikes, but I've certainly never come across a society as divided on something as this.
Smilies are ON
Flash is OFF
Url is ON

User avatar
Geezee
Posts: 12371
Joined: 24 Jul 2003, 10:14
Location: Where joy divides into vision

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Geezee » 20 Nov 2018, 11:47

The Prof wrote:
caramba wrote:Try as she might with the miners' strike, not even Thatcher managed to create such large-scale fear and loathing.


That's not true.

There was at lease one murder during the Minder's Strike and the Battle or Orgreave was no People's March in London.
It was brutal and violent.
There may yet be deaths as a result of a No Deal but at the moment it's just arguing a lot.


There have been at least 2 Brexit-related murders that I'm aware of.
True of course that we've seen nothing even close to the level of violence of Orgreave - and nor have we ultimately seen strikes over Brexit. The only thing really comparable otherwise is Iraq/Blair. But rihgtly or wrongly to me at least Brexit seeps into every fabric of at least my life in a way that previous disputes have not.
Smilies are ON
Flash is OFF
Url is ON

User avatar
The Prof
Composing a revolutionary symphony
Posts: 45262
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:32
Location: A Metropolis of Discontent

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby The Prof » 20 Nov 2018, 11:56

The miner's strike is still very real with a lot of people. and then there's the Poll Tax, that nearly started a civil war.

I think there's still a way to go to get to the levels of social breakdown we've had in my lifetime but that doesn't mean to say we won't get there or surpass it.

caramba
Posts: 500
Joined: 25 Aug 2016, 17:12

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby caramba » 20 Nov 2018, 12:05

With the exception of Geezee, I think most posters here have either got the wrong end of the stick or are using my comment as a springboard for their own opinions.

The 'fear and loathing' I mentioned in my OP didn't refer to the the possible eventual outcome of Brexit/Brino, it was about people's attitudes to those on the opposite side of the debate to themselves.

Anyone who doubts me should just go back and read some of the lazy dismissals of brexiteers trotted out in the previous 22 pages of this thread.

While the miners' strike divided (and is still dividing) mining communities, the referendum seems to have split and be splitting the entire country.
Last edited by caramba on 20 Nov 2018, 13:07, edited 1 time in total.

caramba
Posts: 500
Joined: 25 Aug 2016, 17:12

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby caramba » 20 Nov 2018, 12:05

The Prof wrote:
There was at lease one murder during the Minder's Strike and the Battle or Orgreave was no People's March in London.
It was brutal and violent.






Not sure what "the minders' strike" The Prof refers to was about, but if he's talking about the way Arfur Daley regularly used to try and fleece him out of his due, I'm squarely on the side of Dennis Waterman.

caramba
Posts: 500
Joined: 25 Aug 2016, 17:12

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby caramba » 20 Nov 2018, 12:07

The Prof wrote:There may yet be deaths as a result of a No Deal but at the moment it's just arguing a lot.



Wasn't Jo Cox murdered by some rabid little Englander?

User avatar
Toby
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23575
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Toby » 20 Nov 2018, 12:11

Nuts wrote:I love reading Toby's posts, they never fail to raise a smile.
"The reality is that many people in this country are relatively recession proof."
I don't know what reality you're living in but can we all move there?


The SE of the UK is the richest part of Europe. Obviously not everyone is recession proof and I haven’t stated that, but the fact is that it is better for an economy that some people have some money to spend, rather than for no-one to have any at all. Over 2 million people in the UK have wealth estimated at over £1 million. Only Japan and the USA have more.