Brexit Countdown

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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yomptepi
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby yomptepi » 24 Sep 2018, 23:50

Copehead wrote:
WG Kaspar wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Libya was not an illegal war. No one, apart from you of course, has suggested it was. Only you.

And you can hardly accuse Syria of being an illegal , since he dropped it after the vote went against him. If only your hero had bothered to have a vote. Your continued support of the war criminal Blair is very worrying.

I'm not sure what you mean by that, but the invasion was vetoed in the UN security council by both Russia and China, and the civil unrest was incited by foreign powers, I'm not going to name names. I don't know how much more illegal you can get.


But it was a Tory illegal war so that’s alright


According to you the Iraq war was a tory illegal war, because Blair could never possibly have done it without them, so it was all the tories fault of course. There is no comparison between the military action in Libya and the war in Iraq.
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Copehead » 25 Sep 2018, 10:23

yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:
WG Kaspar wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by that, but the invasion was vetoed in the UN security council by both Russia and China, and the civil unrest was incited by foreign powers, I'm not going to name names. I don't know how much more illegal you can get.


But it was a Tory illegal war so that’s alright


According to you the Iraq war was a tory illegal war, because Blair could never possibly have done it without them, so it was all the tories fault of course. There is no comparison between the military action in Libya and the war in Iraq.


What, apart from the bombs and civilian deaths and stuff?
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Copehead » 25 Sep 2018, 10:26

It should also be remembered by those demanding that Labour commit to a second ref that this would require legislation so they could only do this after they had won an election anyway so demanding an election is the first step

It is just a right wing bear trap so they can wail about Labour stabbing the people in the back and they are doing a good job of avoiding it
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby echolalia » 25 Sep 2018, 11:43

yomptepi wrote:It is about letting the UK leave the EU without damaging the whole construct. If we crash out with no deal, everyone loses.

Trump wins - Russia wins - China wins. All kinds of fascist creepy-crawlies win.

What’s frightening is if the tory government gets really desperate – even more desperate than it already is – it may try to bring down the whole EU edifice in a last craven attempt to salvage something from the rubble. We can’t put it past them. After all, in offering the referendum David Cameron put his entire country’s future in the pawnshop just to get his party’s eurosceptic wing behind him. If Cameron risked so much for so little, May – or whatever wretched opportunist succeeds her at the controls of the tory party – is capable of the same, except this time the stakes are much higher.

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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby yomptepi » 25 Sep 2018, 12:39

Copehead wrote:It should also be remembered by those demanding that Labour commit to a second ref that this would require legislation so they could only do this after they had won an election anyway so demanding an election is the first step

It is just a right wing bear trap so they can wail about Labour stabbing the people in the back and they are doing a good job of avoiding it


No it isn't.

It is dishonest posturing by a party leadership who have no interest in stopping Brexit. From their limited point of view they win either way. If Brexit does turn out to be a disaster, they win. If it doesn't they can say told you so. In reality they have no idea what to do. Exactly the same as the tories in that respect. Sometimes I think it would be good if their was just a bit more time, but it wouldn't make any difference. This has turned into a game of brinkmanship between the arrogant bullies of the EU and the incompetent, indecisive, non committed saps who have been duped into doing something that none of them wants because of a referendum nobody asked for. The coin has been tossed, and is still spinning in the air. It is anyones guess how it lands.
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Robert » 25 Sep 2018, 13:40

hear hear:

Towards the end of his speech to the Labour party conference this morning, Sir Keir Starmer said something out of the ordinary.
The shadow Brexit secretary was looking at what would happen if Theresa May came back from Brussels with a deal only to lose the approval vote in the Commons. He then said:
“If [a general election] is not possible, we must have other options. And, conference, that must include campaigning for a public vote. Conference, it’s right that parliament has the first say. But if we need to break the impasse, our options must include campaigning for a public vote and nobody is ruling out Remain as an option.”

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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Toby » 25 Sep 2018, 13:49

That goes against what the Shadow Chancellor says.

Labour are just as divided as the Tories on Brexit.

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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby yomptepi » 25 Sep 2018, 13:51

Toby wrote:That goes against what the Shadow Chancellor says.

Labour are just as divided as the Tories on Brexit.


Twice as divided and twice as stupid.
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Copehead » 25 Sep 2018, 13:55

Robert wrote:hear hear:

Towards the end of his speech to the Labour party conference this morning, Sir Keir Starmer said something out of the ordinary.
The shadow Brexit secretary was looking at what would happen if Theresa May came back from Brussels with a deal only to lose the approval vote in the Commons. He then said:
“If [a general election] is not possible, we must have other options. And, conference, that must include campaigning for a public vote. Conference, it’s right that parliament has the first say. But if we need to break the impasse, our options must include campaigning for a public vote and nobody is ruling out Remain as an option.”


I see LauraK on the beeb is spinning this as a leadership bid, despite Starmer being loyal and working with a Corbyn ever since the Brexit vote. She and the bbc really are a disgrace. This spin was apparently based on a briefing from Labour Leave, all 3 of them probably.

So a standing ovation laying out Corbyn’s thoughts on Brexit is spun by the beeb as a leadership bid based on the whisperings of that rare breed a Labour Kipper.

Democratisation of the BBC and the ejection of theserigjt wing cuckoos can’t happen soon enough
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Copehead » 25 Sep 2018, 13:56

Toby wrote:That goes against what the Shadow Chancellor says.

Labour are just as divided as the Tories on Brexit.
you’ll need to explain your thinking there because it sounds like crap to me
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Copehead » 25 Sep 2018, 13:57

yomptepi wrote:
Toby wrote:That goes against what the Shadow Chancellor says.

Labour are just as divided as the Tories on Brexit.


Twice as divided and twice as stupid.
see, if Mike believes it I rest my case he is about as reliable as jumbo
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Toby » 25 Sep 2018, 13:59

As said on twitter

labour's brexit position as I understand it -

starmer: remain is an option
mcdonell: remain is not an option
corbyn: I think there has to be a recognition of the rights of the Palestinian people to their own state

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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Goat Boy » 25 Sep 2018, 14:02

Toby wrote:As said on twitter

labour's brexit position as I understand it -

starmer: remain is an option
mcdonell: remain is not an option
corbyn: I think there has to be a recognition of the rights of the Palestinian people to their own state


:)

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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby yomptepi » 25 Sep 2018, 14:03

It is odd that Corbyn has a die hard Blairite as his Brexit spokesperson. But then Starmer is probably the only one of them who knows what it is.
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Samoan » 25 Sep 2018, 14:31

I absolutely saw and heard Starmer's speech to conference this am as a leadership challenge just with my own ears and eyes. He had his own Praetorian Guard, if you will, around him yesterday and doubtless for today and the remainder of conference if the response to the speech and the expression on Dennis Skinner's face is anything to go by.
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Copehead » 25 Sep 2018, 15:43

Toby wrote:As said on twitter

labour's brexit position as I understand it -

starmer: remain is an option
mcdonell: remain is not an option
corbyn: I think there has to be a recognition of the rights of the Palestinian people to their own state


Nice made up shit Toby

The idea that Starmer’s speech was not agreed by Corbyn and Macdonnell is risible even by your standards. The Labour leadership is doing what it has done for 2 years, it is edging along behind the prevailing public opinion.
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Copehead » 25 Sep 2018, 15:46

yomptepi wrote:It is odd that Corbyn has a die hard Blairite as his Brexit spokesperson. But then Starmer is probably the only one of them who knows what it is.


If Starmer is so Blairite and Corbyn so pro-Brexit why have they been working together for 2 years now through all the Blairite PLP shit?

Starmer is certainly brighter than you
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby yomptepi » 25 Sep 2018, 15:46

Copehead wrote:
Toby wrote:As said on twitter

labour's brexit position as I understand it -

starmer: remain is an option
mcdonell: remain is not an option
corbyn: I think there has to be a recognition of the rights of the Palestinian people to their own state


Nice made up shit Toby

The idea that Starmer’s speech was not agreed by Corbyn and Macdonnell is risible even by your standards. The Labour leadership is doing what it has done for 2 years, it is edging along behind the prevailing public opinion.



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Copehead » 25 Sep 2018, 15:48

yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:
Toby wrote:As said on twitter

labour's brexit position as I understand it -

starmer: remain is an option
mcdonell: remain is not an option
corbyn: I think there has to be a recognition of the rights of the Palestinian people to their own state


Nice made up shit Toby

The idea that Starmer’s speech was not agreed by Corbyn and Macdonnell is risible even by your standards. The Labour leadership is doing what it has done for 2 years, it is edging along behind the prevailing public opinion.



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


You need a job at B&Q retirement is turning your brain to mush.
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby The Modernist » 25 Sep 2018, 16:51

Copehead wrote:
The idea that Starmer’s speech was not agreed by Corbyn and Macdonnell is risible even by your standards. The Labour leadership is doing what it has done for 2 years, it is edging along behind the prevailing public opinion.


I don't know about "edging" this seems more like hedging.. hedging one's bets. I understand the dilemma they're in, but they can't afford to look inconsistent, they're going to have to make a clear decision on this in the next few days.