Brexit Countdown

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
User avatar
Robert
Posts: 926
Joined: 27 Dec 2013, 13:24

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Robert » 24 Sep 2018, 09:10

blown up by right wing parteis
yomptepi wrote:
Eddie Shah environment wrote:I think this concept of 'nasty sneering EU bureaucrats' is way down the list when it comes to Brexiteers' rationale. Educated civil servants, suits from the stockbroker belt might have them in mind, but most - I think - just shout along with this half-baked 'we want our country back' idiocy.


Pf course. Who knew the great unwashed were going to rise up and express an opinion. And the problem is , as you say, most of them really didn't have a clue what the vote was about. But they had a vote and used it, and now we have to to respect that decision. Even though it is a disaster.


See this really beats me. Rather than admitting a mistake was made ( at a very particular point in time that was dominated by media reporting about oceans full of refugees trying to land in EU and nick our jobs and which were further blown up by right wing parties) you seem to be saying ' okay we made a mistake but we will follow it through' instead of 'we made a mistake how can we mend it?

You know I am a nice guy so I won't say the latter is the more intelligent approach and the former stuborn stupidity.

User avatar
Robert
Posts: 926
Joined: 27 Dec 2013, 13:24

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Robert » 24 Sep 2018, 09:16

yomptepi wrote:
Deebank wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
you are talking absolute nonsense. You cannot equate a public sector worker with a bureaucrat . That is just being stupid.


Cobblers Yomp. The NHS alone employs 1.5 million!


They are not bureaucrats , are they. They do employ a lot of managers, but even the most useless overpaid and underworked NHS manager looks like a workaholic next to the gravy train riding , pension hogging, wine guzzling European pen pusher. They do have jobs.


You can rest assured that of the 5.3 million in UK at least 10% will hold pen pushing jobs. That already is 11.4 times as much as the EU holds. And, that is for a total population of only 13% of that of EU.

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 35401
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby yomptepi » 24 Sep 2018, 09:25

Robert wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Deebank wrote:
Cobblers Yomp. The NHS alone employs 1.5 million!


They are not bureaucrats , are they. They do employ a lot of managers, but even the most useless overpaid and underworked NHS manager looks like a workaholic next to the gravy train riding , pension hogging, wine guzzling European pen pusher. They do have jobs.


You can rest assured that of the 5.3 million in UK at least 10% will hold pen pushing jobs. That already is 11.4 times as much as the EU holds. And, that is for a total population of only 13% of that of EU.


But you have to concede that those bureaucrats are on top of the fully staffed governments in all of the member countries, so once again your figures are utter rubbish.
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 35401
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby yomptepi » 24 Sep 2018, 09:29

Robert wrote:blown up by right wing parteis
yomptepi wrote:
Eddie Shah environment wrote:I think this concept of 'nasty sneering EU bureaucrats' is way down the list when it comes to Brexiteers' rationale. Educated civil servants, suits from the stockbroker belt might have them in mind, but most - I think - just shout along with this half-baked 'we want our country back' idiocy.


Pf course. Who knew the great unwashed were going to rise up and express an opinion. And the problem is , as you say, most of them really didn't have a clue what the vote was about. But they had a vote and used it, and now we have to to respect that decision. Even though it is a disaster.


See this really beats me. Rather than admitting a mistake was made ( at a very particular point in time that was dominated by media reporting about oceans full of refugees trying to land in EU and nick our jobs and which were further blown up by right wing parties) you seem to be saying ' okay we made a mistake but we will follow it through' instead of 'we made a mistake how can we mend it?

You know I am a nice guy so I won't say the latter is the more intelligent approach and the former stuborn stupidity.


Like Juncker has admitted he should have treated the UK with more respect during those preliminary negotiations? As if. And do you really think anyone stupid enough to vote to leave because they thought it would get rid of all the Muslims is going to be smart enough to change their mind? Of course they aren't. And for every leaver who has changed their mind , there is one , who like me , has been so incensed by the high handed , bullying , arrogant tactics of the EU that they want no more to do with the cunts.
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
Robert
Posts: 926
Joined: 27 Dec 2013, 13:24

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Robert » 24 Sep 2018, 10:13

yomptepi wrote:
Robert wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
They are not bureaucrats , are they. They do employ a lot of managers, but even the most useless overpaid and underworked NHS manager looks like a workaholic next to the gravy train riding , pension hogging, wine guzzling European pen pusher. They do have jobs.


You can rest assured that of the 5.3 million in UK at least 10% will hold pen pushing jobs. That already is 11.4 times as much as the EU holds. And, that is for a total population of only 13% of that of EU.


But you have to concede that those bureaucrats are on top of the fully staffed governments in all of the member countries, so once again your figures are utter rubbish.



Sure it is likely the same in all memberstates too but that still reflects positively on EU.

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 35401
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby yomptepi » 24 Sep 2018, 10:34

Robert wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Robert wrote:
You can rest assured that of the 5.3 million in UK at least 10% will hold pen pushing jobs. That already is 11.4 times as much as the EU holds. And, that is for a total population of only 13% of that of EU.


But you have to concede that those bureaucrats are on top of the fully staffed governments in all of the member countries, so once again your figures are utter rubbish.



Sure it is likely the same in all memberstates too but that still reflects positively on EU.


If you think it is a necessity to manage the managers of the managers , and pay those people extortionate amounts of money and give them absurd pensions and expenses, then yes. You are clearly a proud bureaucrat. Well done.
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
The Prof
Composing a revolutionary symphony
Posts: 45167
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:32
Location: A Metropolis of Discontent

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby The Prof » 24 Sep 2018, 10:43

Robert wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
Robert wrote:
I wonder if a second referendum will show a completely different outcome when even on this board levels of chauvinism seem to have lifted over the alleged Salzburg humiliation.



I don't really understand what you mean by "chauvinism", but I don't think there's any doubt that a second referendum would produce a different result. The Brexit vote only had a really slim majority anyway and given how many people are saying they've changed their minds, it's inconceivable that Brexit wouldn't be voted out (if that is the question to be put in the second referendum).



It's maybe not the most adequate word I could have used but I was referring to both Toby and Yomp. Yomp says he will definitely not vote remain in a new referendum and keeps mentioning the 'humiliation' and by the language he's using it seems he's personally offended by the European penlickers( or similar wording). Also Toby mentions he's veering towards Brexit. And someone else said I am sneering while I was just pointing to the objective fact that May came up with a half baked plan that was chanceless. The EU has stressed again and again that the ' four freedoms' cannot be seperated, it is all of nothing. The cherry picking was so childish that you really can't blaim some penlicking, unelected frog for chuckling.


‘Gamon’ is the word you are looking for. Middle aged, opinionated, right wing, BCB gamon.

User avatar
Robert
Posts: 926
Joined: 27 Dec 2013, 13:24

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Robert » 24 Sep 2018, 10:57

yomptepi wrote:
Robert wrote:blown up by right wing parteis
yomptepi wrote:
Pf course. Who knew the great unwashed were going to rise up and express an opinion. And the problem is , as you say, most of them really didn't have a clue what the vote was about. But they had a vote and used it, and now we have to to respect that decision. Even though it is a disaster.


See this really beats me. Rather than admitting a mistake was made ( at a very particular point in time that was dominated by media reporting about oceans full of refugees trying to land in EU and nick our jobs and which were further blown up by right wing parties) you seem to be saying ' okay we made a mistake but we will follow it through' instead of 'we made a mistake how can we mend it?

You know I am a nice guy so I won't say the latter is the more intelligent approach and the former stuborn stupidity.


Like Juncker has admitted he should have treated the UK with more respect during those preliminary negotiations? As if. And do you really think anyone stupid enough to vote to leave because they thought it would get rid of all the Muslims is going to be smart enough to change their mind? Of course they aren't. And for every leaver who has changed their mind , there is one , who like me , has been so incensed by the high handed , bullying , arrogant tactics of the EU that they want no more to do with the cunts.



See if this was the corporate world in which say, Nestle would invite a company to make a proposal to them that needed to comply with 4 very basic conditions and that company would just say, 'welll fuck that, we make a proposal that suits just ourselves' what do you think would happen? Nestle wouldn't even give a further chance but say well, that has been a waste of time, let's move on.

UK is part of the EU project that has brought properity for all member states and is trying to show a human face vis a vis the humanitarian tragedies happening all over the world, by allowing some into the EU. Apparantly the social aspect is something the brexiteers can't live with.

Salzburg is no Versailles and there has been no humiliation whatsoever.

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 35401
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby yomptepi » 24 Sep 2018, 10:59

The Prof wrote:
Robert wrote:
The Modernist wrote:

I don't really understand what you mean by "chauvinism", but I don't think there's any doubt that a second referendum would produce a different result. The Brexit vote only had a really slim majority anyway and given how many people are saying they've changed their minds, it's inconceivable that Brexit wouldn't be voted out (if that is the question to be put in the second referendum).



It's maybe not the most adequate word I could have used but I was referring to both Toby and Yomp. Yomp says he will definitely not vote remain in a new referendum and keeps mentioning the 'humiliation' and by the language he's using it seems he's personally offended by the European penlickers( or similar wording). Also Toby mentions he's veering towards Brexit. And someone else said I am sneering while I was just pointing to the objective fact that May came up with a half baked plan that was chanceless. The EU has stressed again and again that the ' four freedoms' cannot be seperated, it is all of nothing. The cherry picking was so childish that you really can't blaim some penlicking, unelected frog for chuckling.


‘Gamon’ is the word you are looking for. Middle aged, opinionated, right wing, BCB gamon.


simply not so. The EU has deliberately and purposefully decided to make the UK an example to other nations who want to leave. This has superseded all other factors in the negotiations. As a result the negotiations have failed, as the EU have no interest in negotiating, only in humiliating. How can we come to some sort of reasonable agreement if the EU simply refuse to play ball. The end result is that there will be no deal. Europe will be £40 billion worse off , and we will be left in deep economic trouble. So because they are putting the union before economic pragmatism, everyone will lose. If you think that is Gamon John, then it really is pointless being in this debate. I have always been pro EU. Always. But we cannot continue to be a member of a club which treats us as second class people. They have to accept the democratic will of the UK, and they cannot simply over ride it by turning up their noses to every set of proposals we come up with. It really shouldn't have been this difficult, but because of their determination to stop all further exits, they are simply turning their backs on what is our democratic decision. As I have said many times, it is the last thing I would have wanted, and I am sure it is the last thing Toby would have wanted, but you don't make friends with people whose only interest is in making an example with you. And with people like Macron and Barnier at the helm,that is exactly what we have. We must not be blind to the way we are being treated.
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 35401
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby yomptepi » 24 Sep 2018, 11:01

Robert wrote:
UK is part of the EU project that has brought properity for all member states .


Tell that to the Greeks and the Portuguese and the Spanish and the Italians. The EU has bought prosperity to the Northern European states, and very few others.
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 35401
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby yomptepi » 24 Sep 2018, 11:05

Robert wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Robert wrote:blown up by right wing parteis

See this really beats me. Rather than admitting a mistake was made ( at a very particular point in time that was dominated by media reporting about oceans full of refugees trying to land in EU and nick our jobs and which were further blown up by right wing parties) you seem to be saying ' okay we made a mistake but we will follow it through' instead of 'we made a mistake how can we mend it?

You know I am a nice guy so I won't say the latter is the more intelligent approach and the former stuborn stupidity.


Like Juncker has admitted he should have treated the UK with more respect during those preliminary negotiations? As if. And do you really think anyone stupid enough to vote to leave because they thought it would get rid of all the Muslims is going to be smart enough to change their mind? Of course they aren't. And for every leaver who has changed their mind , there is one , who like me , has been so incensed by the high handed , bullying , arrogant tactics of the EU that they want no more to do with the cunts.



See if this was the corporate world in which say, Nestle would invite a company to make a proposal to them that needed to comply with 4 very basic conditions and that company would just say, 'welll fuck that, we make a proposal that suits just ourselves' what do you think would happen? Nestle wouldn't even give a further chance but say well, that has been a waste of time, let's move on.

.


All very easy to say, but do you have any idea at all quite how complicated the whole Northern Ireland situation is? They know this, and are using as the straw to break all hopes of a deal. As I have said before , I doubt there is a person in the world who has any clue how to resolve the border situation, and this is made even more complicated by this hapless government being tethered by the DUP. All of which plays into the hands of the EU bullies.
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
Robert
Posts: 926
Joined: 27 Dec 2013, 13:24

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Robert » 24 Sep 2018, 11:09

yomptepi wrote:
Robert wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
But you have to concede that those bureaucrats are on top of the fully staffed governments in all of the member countries, so once again your figures are utter rubbish.



Sure it is likely the same in all memberstates too but that still reflects positively on EU.


If you think it is a necessity to manage the managers of the managers , and pay those people extortionate amounts of money and give them absurd pensions and expenses, then yes. You are clearly a proud bureaucrat. Well done.


Sad as it may be the answer in many cases is yes, people need to be managed.

I don't think they need to be paid extortionate amounts of money though, just like I am not sure they are. I sometimes see vacancies in the news paper for EU jobs and most of the times, the salary offered is below what regular companies would pay.

User avatar
Robert
Posts: 926
Joined: 27 Dec 2013, 13:24

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Robert » 24 Sep 2018, 11:41

yomptepi wrote:
The Prof wrote:
Robert wrote:

It's maybe not the most adequate word I could have used but I was referring to both Toby and Yomp. Yomp says he will definitely not vote remain in a new referendum and keeps mentioning the 'humiliation' and by the language he's using it seems he's personally offended by the European penlickers( or similar wording). Also Toby mentions he's veering towards Brexit. And someone else said I am sneering while I was just pointing to the objective fact that May came up with a half baked plan that was chanceless. The EU has stressed again and again that the ' four freedoms' cannot be seperated, it is all of nothing. The cherry picking was so childish that you really can't blaim some penlicking, unelected frog for chuckling.


‘Gamon’ is the word you are looking for. Middle aged, opinionated, right wing, BCB gamon.


simply not so. The EU has deliberately and purposefully decided to make the UK an example to other nations who want to leave. This has superseded all other factors in the negotiations. As a result the negotiations have failed, as the EU have no interest in negotiating, only in humiliating. How can we come to some sort of reasonable agreement if the EU simply refuse to play ball. The end result is that there will be no deal. Europe will be £40 billion worse off , and we will be left in deep economic trouble. So because they are putting the union before economic pragmatism, everyone will lose. If you think that is Gamon John, then it really is pointless being in this debate. I have always been pro EU. Always. But we cannot continue to be a member of a club which treats us as second class people. They have to accept the democratic will of the UK, and they cannot simply over ride it by turning up their noses to every set of proposals we come up with. It really shouldn't have been this difficult, but because of their determination to stop all further exits, they are simply turning their backs on what is our democratic decision. As I have said many times, it is the last thing I would have wanted, and I am sure it is the last thing Toby would have wanted, but you don't make friends with people whose only interest is in making an example with you. And with people like Macron and Barnier at the helm,that is exactly what we have. We must not be blind to the way we are being treated.


Democratic? The entire EU committed to the four F's. Just because 17.4 million people in the UK say no to it we have to forget about it?

User avatar
space. invadere
hounds people off the board
Posts: 18657
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: bit reliant on prawns

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby space. invadere » 24 Sep 2018, 11:52

McDonnell proposing a new referendum should not include the option to remain....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other
GoogaMooga wrote:I've been GoogaMooga everywhere since I went online in 2005. There are copycats on the web incl a Brooklyn Food Festival, who have even adopted my camel case "M".

User avatar
Toby
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23317
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Toby » 24 Sep 2018, 11:57

It will go down to the wire, but I suspect the Canada option is what will happen. It seems that the cabinet is veering towards that as Chequers thankfully is dead in the water.

The EU is playing hardball, but they need our cash.

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 35401
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby yomptepi » 24 Sep 2018, 11:58

Robert wrote:Democratic? The entire EU committed to the four F's. Just because 17.4 million people in the UK say no to it we have to forget about it?


You can keep your four F's . if they are so important. Clearly you do not have an issue like the Northern Ireland border to deal with. But this is not about the four F's. It is about letting the UK leave the EU without damaging the whole construct. If we crash out with no deal, everyone loses. Is that a price the Germans are really willing to pay? Because let's be honest. It is only the Germans who really have any say.
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
the masked man
Schadenfreude
Posts: 26876
Joined: 21 Jul 2003, 12:29
Location: Peterborough

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby the masked man » 24 Sep 2018, 12:15

So now we have confirmation from John McDonnell's mouth that Labour is officially committed to the ruinous Tory Brexit policy. Despite Labour voters being overwhelmingly pro-Remain. A spineless joke of an opposition party. No doubt Copehead will shortly be here with another copypasta from Squawkbox to try to spin this as a good thing.

Time for Corbyn and McDonnell to resign.

User avatar
Robert
Posts: 926
Joined: 27 Dec 2013, 13:24

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Robert » 24 Sep 2018, 12:33

yomptepi wrote:
Robert wrote:Democratic? The entire EU committed to the four F's. Just because 17.4 million people in the UK say no to it we have to forget about it?


You can keep your four F's . if they are so important. Clearly you do not have an issue like the Northern Ireland border to deal with. But this is not about the four F's. It is about letting the UK leave the EU without damaging the whole construct. If we crash out with no deal, everyone loses. Is that a price the Germans are really willing to pay? Because let's be honest. It is only the Germans who really have any say.



You wouldn't have that issue with the Northern Irish border if it wasn't for Brexit!

Nearly half of UK's exports go to EU whereas only 8% of the EU's go to UK. Who has the bigger issue you think?

User avatar
Toby
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23317
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Toby » 24 Sep 2018, 13:19

the masked man wrote:So now we have confirmation from John McDonnell's mouth that Labour is officially committed to the ruinous Tory Brexit policy. Despite Labour voters being overwhelmingly pro-Remain. A spineless joke of an opposition party. No doubt Copehead will shortly be here with another copypasta from Squawkbox to try to spin this as a good thing.

Time for Corbyn and McDonnell to resign.


Labour members are overwhelmingly remain. 85% at last count. Labour voters though are somewhat more leave than you think.

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 35401
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby yomptepi » 24 Sep 2018, 14:24

Toby wrote:
the masked man wrote:So now we have confirmation from John McDonnell's mouth that Labour is officially committed to the ruinous Tory Brexit policy. Despite Labour voters being overwhelmingly pro-Remain. A spineless joke of an opposition party. No doubt Copehead will shortly be here with another copypasta from Squawkbox to try to spin this as a good thing.

Time for Corbyn and McDonnell to resign.


Labour members are overwhelmingly remain. 85% at last count. Labour voters though are somewhat more leave than you think.


But they don't count. Corbyn is only interested in the views of Labour party members. No one has a say.
You don't like me...do you?