Brexit Countdown

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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The Modernist
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby The Modernist » 18 Feb 2019, 11:22

Toby wrote:Blair made no major economic contribution to govt after he came to No.10. It was all Brown. This was the root of the problem, that after 2001 the Chancellor didn't allow the PM to see any policy. Brown was so secretive about the biggest post-war spending spree that was such a significant aspect of the 2008 crash. And that after the 1997 govt rode the wave of a Tory economic surge that had been responsible for the biggest growth since the War. Mostly because of Nigel Lawson.


The 2008 crash was caused by the actions of the investment banks, Labour spending had very little to do with it and was certainly not the root cause.

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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Diamond Dog » 18 Feb 2019, 12:35

Toby wrote:Blair made no major economic contribution to govt after he came to No.10. It was all Brown. This was the root of the problem, that after 2001 the Chancellor didn't allow the PM to see any policy. Brown was so secretive about the biggest post-war spending spree that was such a significant aspect of the 2008 crash. And that after the 1997 govt rode the wave of a Tory economic surge that had been responsible for the biggest growth since the War. Mostly because of Nigel Lawson.



Are there any reliable sources for any of this?

Obviously not the final sentence which is so absurd as to not be worthy of a source. Boom & Bust, anyone?
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby yomptepi » 18 Feb 2019, 12:43

Copehead wrote:
But as usual the people spouting shit about how useless Corbyn is have nothing to back up their claims other than second hand Daily Mail columns, if you actually look at some evidence it doesn't tell the story Mike wants to believe.


Yes it does.
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby yomptepi » 18 Feb 2019, 12:47

The Modernist wrote:
Toby wrote:Blair made no major economic contribution to govt after he came to No.10. It was all Brown. This was the root of the problem, that after 2001 the Chancellor didn't allow the PM to see any policy. Brown was so secretive about the biggest post-war spending spree that was such a significant aspect of the 2008 crash. And that after the 1997 govt rode the wave of a Tory economic surge that had been responsible for the biggest growth since the War. Mostly because of Nigel Lawson.


The 2008 crash was caused by the actions of the investment banks, Labour spending had very little to do with it and was certainly not the root cause.


It was caused by the government inability to regulate those banks. The same banks , incidentally which rewarded Blair so handsomely once he left office, ( no surprise there then). The banks were allowed to do as they pleased, and Brown was complicit. And therefore respnsible. I know we don't like to label Labour governments responsible, because it is always the conservatives fault. But the crisis of 2008 was entirely Gordon Browns baby.
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby yomptepi » 18 Feb 2019, 12:48

Copehead wrote:
yomptepi wrote:But that's just data. Data showing clearly how fast credit card debt grew under Blair's government. But I understand why you want to disregard it. What with it being inconvenient an all...


What is inconvenient is conflating public debt and private debt. When I say inconvenient I really mean stupid and misleading.

Can you imagine the furore for right wing idiots like you if the Labour government had attempted to curtail the lending of money by banks to private individuals?


Actually that chart was for credit card and domestic debt. But don't let that worry you.
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby The Prof » 18 Feb 2019, 13:09

yomptepi wrote:But the crisis of 2008 was entirely Gordon Browns baby.


Here's some information on the World Global Crash of 2007/8 and how it played out on the world stage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis_of_2007–2008

It includes a bit on how European countries were dragged in and also mentions that the countries to escape relatively unscathed were the Arab ones.

You're welcome

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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby The Modernist » 18 Feb 2019, 13:12

yomptepi wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
Toby wrote:Blair made no major economic contribution to govt after he came to No.10. It was all Brown. This was the root of the problem, that after 2001 the Chancellor didn't allow the PM to see any policy. Brown was so secretive about the biggest post-war spending spree that was such a significant aspect of the 2008 crash. And that after the 1997 govt rode the wave of a Tory economic surge that had been responsible for the biggest growth since the War. Mostly because of Nigel Lawson.


The 2008 crash was caused by the actions of the investment banks, Labour spending had very little to do with it and was certainly not the root cause.


It was caused by the government inability to regulate those banks. The same banks , incidentally which rewarded Blair so handsomely once he left office, ( no surprise there then). The banks were allowed to do as they pleased, and Brown was complicit. And therefore respnsible. I know we don't like to label Labour governments responsible, because it is always the conservatives fault. But the crisis of 2008 was entirely Gordon Browns baby.


Actually I'm quite balanced and more than happy to criticise New Labour when they deserve it. But Toby's statement, that the crash was caused by irresponsible Treasury spending was factually incorrect which was what I was challenging. That doesn't mean that New Labour don't have some culpability, because they do. I agree that the failure to properly regulate the banks was a contributory factor here, but in this they were following the kind of Neo Liberal market policies you and Toby support. The behaviour of the banks was of course a global problem, unfortunately the uk got the brunt of it because our economy has been so tied to the financial services sector since the 80s. Brown does deserve some credit for responding as swiftly as he did in bailing out and then nationalising some of the banks.
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby yomptepi » 18 Feb 2019, 13:29

Apologist.
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Deebank » 18 Feb 2019, 14:19

yomptepi wrote:Apologist.


The circle of hell devoted to those apologising for New Labour (which Moddie wasn’t doing anyway) is slightly less hot and sulphuric than the one dedicated to Thatcher / Tory apologists where you will fry for eternity Yomp.

:lol:
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby yomptepi » 18 Feb 2019, 15:42

Deebank wrote:
yomptepi wrote:Apologist.


The circle of hell devoted to those apologising for New Labour (which Moddie wasn’t doing anyway) is slightly less hot and sulphuric than the one dedicated to Thatcher / Tory apologists where you will fry for eternity Yomp.

:lol:


i think that is the problem. Blairites like you and your brother, Moddy and the prof all seem to think they have some kind of divine pass because they support Lbaour. Blair took us into an illegal war, which cost millions of lives and Billions of pounds. He presided over a government which crashed the economy and murdered David Kelly, who sought to discredit them. They created the modern Spin world of politics, and those in Power, despite famously being broke, are now all multi millionaires. How does this weak and ineffectual government even begin to compete with that?
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby The Modernist » 18 Feb 2019, 16:02

I've criticised them repeatedly (well not so much on Kelly because I don't wear a tin foil hat) for more years than I care to remember on all those things, and others, but it falls on deaf ears for you, because, like Copehead, you are less interested in people's arguments and views, than in selectively seeing what you want to see in order to win an argument. I have never been a Blairite.

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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Copehead » 18 Feb 2019, 16:18

yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:
yomptepi wrote:But that's just data. Data showing clearly how fast credit card debt grew under Blair's government. But I understand why you want to disregard it. What with it being inconvenient an all...


What is inconvenient is conflating public debt and private debt. When I say inconvenient I really mean stupid and misleading.

Can you imagine the furore for right wing idiots like you if the Labour government had attempted to curtail the lending of money by banks to private individuals?


Actually that chart was for credit card and domestic debt. But don't let that worry you.


Even more stupid and misleading then as that has precisely nothing to do with any government policy beyond that which free'd up the financial markets to lend with fewer restraints in the first place.

You could always try in posting graphs with properly labelled axis if you don't want to appear stupid. Yours only says UK debt and credit. But trying to get something meaningful and honest out of you is increasingly difficult, retirement has deranged you, you will be writing letters to your local paper about black marxists abusing the Great Missenden parking system before the months out.

If you are wanting a party who will curtail the lending bonanza that high street banks have indulged in for the last 30 years I am afraid a Corbyn lead Labour government is your only hope.

But you are too addled to even see that
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Copehead » 18 Feb 2019, 16:23

Deebank wrote:
Robert wrote:With 7 Labour MP's resigning it's becoming increasingly difficult to keep branding Corbyn as a succes.

I would prefer him over May but that's only because of what Labout broadly stands for. In today's global political landscape the
guy must be the least appealing leader of a major political party.


Unless those seven decide they are going to vote with the tories (electoral suicide?) it makes very little difference overall.

With the exception of Chuckles has anyone heard of any of them outside of their recent anti-Corbyn agitation?


They were all going to be deselected before the end of the year so it is really just jumping before they were pushed, nasty bunch of deadweight.

That Berger woman being a particularly nasty piece of work calling her CLP anti-semitic when she knows the chairman is a disabled Jewish man.
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Copehead » 18 Feb 2019, 16:25

Toby wrote:Blair made no major economic contribution to govt after he came to No.10. It was all Brown. This was the root of the problem, that after 2001 the Chancellor didn't allow the PM to see any policy. Brown was so secretive about the biggest post-war spending spree that was such a significant aspect of the 2008 crash. And that after the 1997 govt rode the wave of a Tory economic surge that had been responsible for the biggest growth since the War. Mostly because of Nigel Lawson.


The Nigel Lawson who had been sacked in 1989 for his disastrous economic mismanagement of the economy?

Jesus Christ almighty, that is weak even by your standards.
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Copehead » 18 Feb 2019, 16:27

Diamond Dog wrote:
Toby wrote:Blair made no major economic contribution to govt after he came to No.10. It was all Brown. This was the root of the problem, that after 2001 the Chancellor didn't allow the PM to see any policy. Brown was so secretive about the biggest post-war spending spree that was such a significant aspect of the 2008 crash. And that after the 1997 govt rode the wave of a Tory economic surge that had been responsible for the biggest growth since the War. Mostly because of Nigel Lawson.



Are there any reliable sources for any of this?

Obviously not the final sentence which is so absurd as to not be worthy of a source. Boom & Bust, anyone?


You can't aks a Tory to back up their guff with links or facts, they have a hard enough time walking and breathing simultaneously, trying to do basic research could be fatal.
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Copehead » 18 Feb 2019, 16:28

The Modernist wrote:I've criticised them repeatedly (well not so much on Kelly because I don't wear a tin foil hat) for more years than I care to remember on all those things, and others, but it falls on deaf ears for you, because, like Copehead, you are less interested in people's arguments and views, than in selectively seeing what you want to see in order to win an argument. I have never been a Blairite.


That's exactly what a Blairite would say
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Diamond Dog » 18 Feb 2019, 16:31

Copehead wrote:
Toby wrote:Blair made no major economic contribution to govt after he came to No.10. It was all Brown. This was the root of the problem, that after 2001 the Chancellor didn't allow the PM to see any policy. Brown was so secretive about the biggest post-war spending spree that was such a significant aspect of the 2008 crash. And that after the 1997 govt rode the wave of a Tory economic surge that had been responsible for the biggest growth since the War. Mostly because of Nigel Lawson.


The Nigel Lawson who had been sacked in 1989 for his disastrous economic mismanagement of the economy?

Jesus Christ almighty, that is weak even by your standards.


Maybe he meant Norman Lamont.

Or maybe not.....

Or John Major.

Or maybe not.....
Last edited by Diamond Dog on 18 Feb 2019, 16:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby yomptepi » 18 Feb 2019, 16:32

Copehead wrote:
The Modernist wrote:I've criticised them repeatedly (well not so much on Kelly because I don't wear a tin foil hat) for more years than I care to remember on all those things, and others, but it falls on deaf ears for you, because, like Copehead, you are less interested in people's arguments and views, than in selectively seeing what you want to see in order to win an argument. I have never been a Blairite.


That's exactly what a Blairite would say


Indeed. He is part of the pro Blairite cabal deeply entrenched in the BCB psyche.Sad, deranged desperado's who still believe in St Tony.

Very sad.
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby Copehead » 18 Feb 2019, 16:43

Diamond Dog wrote:
Copehead wrote:
Toby wrote:Blair made no major economic contribution to govt after he came to No.10. It was all Brown. This was the root of the problem, that after 2001 the Chancellor didn't allow the PM to see any policy. Brown was so secretive about the biggest post-war spending spree that was such a significant aspect of the 2008 crash. And that after the 1997 govt rode the wave of a Tory economic surge that had been responsible for the biggest growth since the War. Mostly because of Nigel Lawson.


The Nigel Lawson who had been sacked in 1989 for his disastrous economic mismanagement of the economy?

Jesus Christ almighty, that is weak even by your standards.


Maybe he meant Norman Lamont.

Or maybe not.....

Or John Major.

Or maybe not.....


I suppose in his defence he didn't live through it as an adult, but a bit of basic research before posting could be in order.
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Re: Brexit Countdown

Postby The Modernist » 18 Feb 2019, 17:02

yomptepi wrote:
Copehead wrote:
The Modernist wrote:I've criticised them repeatedly (well not so much on Kelly because I don't wear a tin foil hat) for more years than I care to remember on all those things, and others, but it falls on deaf ears for you, because, like Copehead, you are less interested in people's arguments and views, than in selectively seeing what you want to see in order to win an argument. I have never been a Blairite.


That's exactly what a Blairite would say


Indeed. He is part of the pro Blairite cabal deeply entrenched in the BCB psyche.Sad, deranged desperado's who still believe in St Tony.

Very sad.


:lol: You are a wag.