The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Copehead » 16 Aug 2018, 22:36

Tonto Papadopoulos wrote:
Samoan wrote:If there's a wreath to be laid, he's all over it -

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Jeremy Corbyn, left, on Downing Street in 1984, with (left to right) Jim King, miner Malcolm Pitt, MEPs Christine Crawley and Richard Balfe and Young Liberal chair Janice Turner, organisers of a British Out of Ireland march. They are carrying a black wreath in memory of Sean Downes, killed by the RUC in Belfast the previous week.


So let me get this straight. You are criticising a politician because he objected to the illegal killing of an unarmed civilian by a police officer? Right.


That is a new low even for that Troll.

He was a civilian killed by a plastic bullet by someone who was surprisingly actually tried for manslaughter although rather less surprisingly acquitted.

https://www.nytimes.com/1984/08/14/world/thousands-in-ulster-march-to-denounce-killing-by-the-police.html
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Copehead » 17 Aug 2018, 02:25

I see Hodge is really getting it in the neck for her latest outrageous statements:

- "There is a thin line between being pro-Palestinian and anti-Semitic" WTF!? no there isn't that is an outrageous thing to say. How anyone can claim this whole farrago isn't about shutting down all criticism of the Israeli government after someone spouting crap like that is beyond me.

- Her realizing how her parents felt when they fled Nazi Germany when she received a letter from the Labour Party saying she faced a disciplinary proceeding for calling the her Party leader a "Fucking racist and anti-Semite" in public, I think that is the most anti-Semitic thing I have ever heard anyone in the Labour party say, she totally trivializes the Holocaust in order to turn herself into a victim for throwing vile abuse at a co-worker.

Not a nice person or a bright one by the look of it, she has turned herself into a figure of ridicule and an internet meme - along the lines of "I burnt my finger on a match while lighting a cigarette this morning now I know how Joan of Arc felt", shame Morrissey didn't tweet that one :)

Meanwhile Israel has attacked another important military target in Gaza

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/16/uk-playwrights-condemn-bombing-of-gaza-theatre
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Copehead » 17 Aug 2018, 04:20

This is what Gary Younge says Corbyn should say on the matter of anti-Semitism on the left.
It is pretty much spot on, the only bit I disagree with is the anti-Semitic tropes on the mural, it was a satire on Capitalism not Judaism and I don't see why we should whitewash the history of exploitative Jewish Capitalists out of history in case it offends someone.
Corbyn was right on that one originally it is a free speech issue and I doubt anyone could tell the Jews and Gentiles apart in that mural anyway.


For as long as I can remember, anti-racism and internationalism have been a central part of my life. My parents met at a rally supporting Spanish Republicans who were fighting General Franco’s fascists – a crucial episode in the spread of fascism across Europe that saw Hitler’s rise and all the carnage that came with it. My politics were shaped by a leftwing tradition that had a clear notion that injustice could not be tolerated – and that principle was as crucial to defend abroad as it was at home.


So to be branded an antisemite – and the leader of an antisemitic party – after five decades of political activism is something I have had to take seriously, even as I have found it deeply distressing personally.

Antisemitism has a long, vile and violent history, not least in this country and this continent, where Jews were all too recently threatened with being extinguished as a people. Accusations of antisemitism should never be dismissed summarily, cavalierly or defensively – it is far too serious a matter for that. Such accusations should not be made opportunistically, baselessly or for crude political gain, either – it is far too serious a matter for that, too. Antisemitism is an evil in itself. Its gravity does not hinge on whether the accuser or the accused is Labour or Tory, Jew or gentile, Old Labour or New.

The left has an impressive history of fighting bigotry and racism in all its forms, and I am proud to have dedicated a significant section of my life to that struggle. I make no apology for that. It has been a struggle conducted both in parliament, where I was one of a handful of MPs who opposed the hostile environment policy that led to the ill-treatment of the Windrush generation, and in the streets, demonstrating with the Anti-Nazi League against the far right and neo-Nazis during the 1970s and beyond.

The left has a proud record of internationalism and I am proud to have dedicated a significant part of my political life to that also. I protested against Saddam Hussein’s gassing of the Kurds in 1988 while the Tory government endorsed selling him weapons; I marched against the illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003 when the Labour government joined the US. I was arrested for protesting against apartheid in 1984 when the British government still branded Nelson Mandela a terrorist. I supported dialogue between Sinn Féin and the British state, a strategy that led to peace, while our government sought military victory, which escalated the conflict.

I make no apology for this either, even when there have been overtures I have made to groups or individuals that, when divorced from their historical context, appear unwise. Politics is about hard choices. You don’t make peace with your friends but with your enemies. I have been on the right side of history far more often than I have not been – and certainly far more often than those who seek to sully my name by distorting my past.

Labour does not have the antisemitism problem that many in the media and the political class accuse us of having


There is no contradiction in being a committed anti-racist and an internationalist – indeed they come from exactly the same belief: that everybody should be treated equally, that our human rights are indivisible and that discriminating against people is wrong, whoever you are and wherever you are. But there is a specific challenge when it comes to Israel and Palestine as it relates to antisemitism and British Jewry.

There is no shortage of people, on every side of the Middle East conflict, who have blood on their hands. But it is my sincere belief that it is not a conflict between equals. Israel is a regional superpower backed by the west and armed to the teeth that occupies the West Bank and is building settlements on Palestinian land, in defiance of international law. It recently passed a law that makes Israeli-Arabs second-class citizens. Like most people in Britain and around the world we support the Palestinian right to create their own state.

British Jews are not homogeneous. They have a range of views on everything, including the Middle East. That said – and for understandable reasons, particularly relating to the Holocaust – even though many British Jews are critical of Israeli policies, the vast majority feel a close affinity with the country.

So my history of pro-Palestinian activism, which I have always been very open about, is a source of legitimate tension with many British Jews. Reasonable people can disagree on both the origins and the potential solutions to the conflict in the Middle East – that disagreement does not make either me or the Labour party antisemitic.

The challenge has come in navigating that tension with sensitivity while establishing a clear, coherent and robust distinction between criticising Israel and criticising Jews. Over the last few years it has become painfully clear to me that some on the left have not always risen to that challenge.

The left in general, and Labour in particular, does not have the antisemitism problem that many in the media and the political class accuse us of having. There is no poll or survey that supports the notion that antisemitism is rife on the left or, indeed, any worse than it is among Conservatives.

Yet we do have a problem. Antisemitism is a hardy virus and it would be a grave mistake to assume that we are somehow immune from it. There are some on the left who seek to hold Jews accountable for what Israel does. That is wrong. Some believe that because Jews are overwhelmingly white and some are wealthy, antisemitism is somehow less worthy of our concern than other forms of discrimination. They are wrong. Some believe that because so many of the attacks on Labour under my leadership have been baseless that all of these accusations are baseless. They are wrong. In the words of the great African-American writer and activist WEB Du Bois: “Our worst side has been so shamelessly emphasised that we are denying we have or ever had a worst side. In all sorts of ways we are hemmed in.”


I take responsibility for this. When accusations have been made we have, at times, been too slow to respond or have responded evasively. We could have worked harder to engage with Jewish communities. It makes me cringe to know that, on a handful of occasions, I shared platforms with people who have made reprehensible statements and failed to challenge antisemitic remarks others have made in my presence. On at least one occasion I failed to recognise what I now see were clear antisemitic tropes in a mural. I deeply regret the offence this has caused. There are many things I am attacked for having done that I make no apology for. But these apologies I own. They were my mistakes. And the apology comes not from a point of weakness but strength because I can do better.

The Labour party isn’t perfect. But it’s still the party of justice, equality and inclusion. It’s the party that has sent more women, black, Asian and Muslim MPs to parliament than any other. It’s the party that introduced the first Race Relations Act, the Sex Discrimination Act, hate crimes legislation and commissioned the Macpherson report. That is our history. That is our tradition. Those are not only our founding principles but our guiding principles. And that will be our future.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Deebank » 17 Aug 2018, 09:45

I'm not sure where the idea that politicians should show balance or impartiality when judging international conflicts and disagreements comes from.

Sadly there is usually an oppressor and an oppressed and it is in the nature of the Labour movement to be on the side of the oppressed (although clearly this is not always the case).

This para from Gary Younge's article states the Israel/ Palestine situation very well:

There is no shortage of people, on every side of the Middle East conflict, who have blood on their hands. But it is my sincere belief that it is not a conflict between equals. Israel is a regional superpower backed by the west and armed to the teeth that occupies the West Bank and is building settlements on Palestinian land, in defiance of international law. It recently passed a law that makes Israeli-Arabs second-class citizens. Like most people in Britain and around the world we support the Palestinian right to create their own state.


Just as there was a 'right' side and a 'wrong' side in apartheid South Africa there is a clear distinction in Israel/Palestine and JC is on the right side of it.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Butch Manly » 17 Aug 2018, 09:56

Goat Boy wrote:
Tonto Papadopoulos wrote:
Tonto Papadopoulos wrote:Any thoughts on the d'Ancona article, Goatster? Toby?


Hello??


Soz, was just Skyping my new besht mate, Stevie Bannon. Funny guy!

Do you have I to comment on every article posted on these discussions? It's hard to keep up! Especially when I don’t even condone what Johnson actually said. I said it was crass and I said that when you let Boris Johnson lead such discussions you get “predictable results”. What more do you want? Is it time to get out that outrageometer again? I can't stand Johnson. The other week on Facebook I posted the following:

You ken when I’ll celebrate? When I’m playing keepy uppy with Johnsons head


As much as I hate Corbyn at least he has his own warped principles. Johnson is just some cunt who will always put his own goals ahead of his party and ultimately the country. I will never forgive him for his role in Brexit.

I support criticism of the burka for obvious reasons but understand this needs to be done in a sensitive manner, by politicians in particular and Johnson crossed the line. I can understand why some people are especially wary of any criticism right now because they believe this will embolden cunts on the far right and they don’t want to stir that particular pot. I appreciate those concerns but for me they don’t negate the need to speak out against the burka and, in doing so, support the many Muslims who actually oppose it. Doing that is the only way to instigate gradual change within that community I think. I can get behind the general thrust of that article but I don't think the Rivers of Blood comparison is really apt.


And yet, whatever you think of Boris, your reaction played right into that cunt and Steve Bannon's hands. You reacted exactly the way they wanted you to. Moral outrage about a Trojan horse issue.

Played like a banjo. Well done.

( And please don't try to pretend that the left cannot see the women's rights issues within all of this. You only end up looking like an arse)
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Goat Boy » 17 Aug 2018, 12:17

There is no outrage from me. I'll leave that to your hyperventilating Facebook status updates.

Of course I could stand up to Boris and Bannon by posting shit like this on Facebook:

Image

But I wouldn't want to look like a fucking moron.

"I must respectfully disagree with Mr Henry Stewart of London, England. I had both my legs blown off and lost an eye in a suicide bombing attack in Peshawar in August 2011 by some twat in a fucking burka.

Yours sincerely,

Roger Hammersmith, Peshawar, Pakistan.


http://www.thejournal.ie/female-suicide-bomber-targets-pakistani-police-responding-to-attack-198747-Aug2011/

I'm not suggesting they can't see it. They can but they compartmentalise the issue like you were doing earlier. Others do it by framing the hijab etc as a example of Muslim female liberation when it is clearly nothing of the sort. The cognitive dissonance is obvious but typical because there is a blind spot in relation to Islam on the left. Partly of course because some left wingers are simply loathe to share any common ground with even reasonable voices on the right when it comes to this issue.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Butch Manly » 17 Aug 2018, 12:27

Dougie, you took the bait, you looked like an alt-right enabling dick. Everyone can see. Admit it, learn from it, move on. It's the only way.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby kalowski II: The Revenge » 17 Aug 2018, 12:50

‘Everyone’
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Goat Boy » 17 Aug 2018, 13:08

#Alt right enabling dick
#Zionist
#Tory
#Steven Bannon's drinking partner
#Gary Glitter fan
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Goat Boy » 17 Aug 2018, 13:12

the gorton gollum wrote:‘Everyone’


I'm looking forward to some juicy status updates this weekend.

Maybe he'll top that time when he said that if he was a young British Muslim he'd be tempted to become a Jihadi.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Butch Manly » 17 Aug 2018, 13:27

Goat Boy wrote:#Alt right enabling dick
#Zionist
#Tory
#Steven Bannon's drinking partner
#Gary Glitter fan



:lol: Oh you poor little snowflake! Shall I go and dig up all the names you've called me on this thread alone? Oh no, that's right, I couldn't give a shit.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby kalowski II: The Revenge » 17 Aug 2018, 13:35

indefatigable
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Goat Boy » 17 Aug 2018, 13:44

the gorton gollum wrote:indefatigable


Let's hope he takes my advice on board and decides on a wee humanitarian holiday in Gaza.

I'm actually thinking about visiting Israel by the way. The food is meant to be mega!
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby kalowski II: The Revenge » 17 Aug 2018, 13:46

The Black Pudding is supposed to be particularly tasty, such young blood.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Goat Boy » 17 Aug 2018, 14:26

the gorton gollum wrote:The Black Pudding is supposed to be particularly tasty, such young blood.


I had a blood sausage in Argentina once that was heavenly.

Here's hoping I can recreate the magic in Tel-Aviv
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Belle Lettre » 17 Aug 2018, 14:56

It's OUR food. They nicked that too!

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/ ... index.html
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Goat Boy » 17 Aug 2018, 15:01

Sacrilicious!
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Butch Manly » 17 Aug 2018, 17:01

Iraqi Jew, Rachel Shabi:


Finger-pointing over Jeremy Corbyn’s visit to Tunis has now spread to the Tory party. Yet all it does is provoke division

Calls this week for the Conservative peer Lord Sheikh to be expelled from his party, for attending the same Palestinian rights conference as the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn in 2014, are the signs of a row that has spiralled out of control.

Like Corbyn, Mohamed Sheikh was at the conference at the invitation of the Tunisian president – though he did not lay a wreath. His attendance has prompted the Tory MPs Zac Goldsmith and Robert Halfon to claim the peer breached the party’s code of conduct. Goldsmith tweeted: “If this man is not immediately expelled from the Conservative Party, the Party hierarchy’s complaints about Corbyn will look entirely cynical.” This is an unfortunate arrangement of words, since such complaints look pretty cynical whether or not the man is expelled.

The ‘ultimate deal’? For Israel, maybe. We Palestinians will never accept it | Hanan Ashrawi
In any case, Sheikh’s critics pointed to the presence in Tunis of members of Hamas, a terrorist organisation according to a ruling by the European court of justice, although their attendance is not surprising if the event was partly focused on unity-building between Hamas and Fatah (Palestinian rival groups since 2007).

This week on the BBC’s Today programme, Sheikh, who had gone to the Tunisian conference to speak about the Arab spring and settlements in Palestine, found himself interrogated over the title of the event he had decided to attend: the International Conference on Monitoring the Palestinian Political and Legal Situation in the Light of Israeli Aggression. The event took place on 30 September 2014. Two months earlier, in July, Israel had begun a 50-day assault on the blockaded Gaza Strip, responding, it said, to rockets fired by Hamas into Israel (though this business of who started what and when is a part of this long and asymmetric Israeli-Palestinian conflict).

More than 2,100 Palestinians died during that period. The vast majority were civilians, including 495 children, according to the UN. Seventy-two Israelis died, most of whom were soldiers. In Gaza, more than 11,000 people were injured and thousands of homes were reduced to rubble, while factories, farmland, crops and livestock were destroyed, devastating Palestinian life in the strip.


That’s just one conflict – and we haven’t even started on Israel’s ongoing military occupation or its settlements. But are we now saying that attending an international conference about Palestinians, featuring the words “Israeli aggression” and taking place a few months after this terrible assault, is to be condemned? How should a Tunisian president name an event concerning the Palestinian situation: by referring instead to “Israeli aggression, but actually we think you’ll find Hamas also fired rockets and a UN investigation criticised both sides”?

The attacks on Sheikh came shortly after he criticised Boris Johnson for dog-whistle comments about Muslim women in burqas and his demands that Conservatives take seriously complaints of Islamophobia in the party.

It’s hard to see any winners in this sorry mess, but there are clear losers: Palestinians and Britain’s Jewish and Muslim communities, who are forced to endure the hasty, ill-conceived slanging matches that seem to increasingly dominate Britain’s political culture.

In the aftermath of Sheikh’s grilling on the Today programme, the Labour MP Margaret Hodge pitched into Labour’s antisemitism row, which has flared over the summer. In a Sky News interview, Hodge said: “It’s a very fine line between being pro-Palestinian and being antisemitic and I think he’s gone the wrong side of that line.”


This is an infuriating statement. It is perfectly possible to be both supportive of Palestinians and committed to fighting antisemitism. To pit one against the other is to drive a wedge between causes, forcing people to choose where no choice is necessary. This is false zero-sum-game politics. Hodge’s words are needlessly provocative in relation to progressives battling claims that accusations of antisemitism are simply about shutting down criticism of Israel.

If politicians, egged on by sections of the media, want to lambast each other, fine, let them fill their boots – it’s not as though the UK has something enormous and pressing to be getting on with instead. But it would be great if they could avoid needlessly trashing the Palestinian cause and bungling race-hate issues in the process. News cycles eventually move on. But we will be left clearing the divisions and damage in their wake.

• Rachel Shabi is a writer and broadcaster
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby kalowski II: The Revenge » 17 Aug 2018, 17:21

A woman, an Iraqi and a Jewess!

Triple points!
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby WG Kaspar » 17 Aug 2018, 17:42

Is Corbyn really demonised though? Scrutinised maybe but more than any other high profile politician and anyway isn't that part and parcel of the job?
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