The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Copehead » 13 Aug 2018, 00:38

The Velvet Underground wrote:What evidence do you have that he is racist?


His speeches, his newspaper columns and his actions.

In as far as someone who has pretty obvious narcissistic and sociopathic pathologies can be racist; he doesn't give a fuck about anyone but himself pretty obviously, he probably despises David Cameron as much as he obviously despises Black people, but only one of those things is racism.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Diamond Dog » 13 Aug 2018, 08:23

"It is said that the Queen has come to love the Commonwealth, partly because it supplies her with regular cheering crowds of flag-waving picaninnies; and one can imagine that Blair, twice victor abroad but enmired at home, is similarly seduced by foreign politeness. They say he is shortly off to the Congo. No doubt the AK47s will fall silent, and the pangas will stop their hacking of human flesh, and the tribal warriors will all break out in Watermelon smiles to see the big white chief touch down in his big white British taxpayer-funded bird."

Boris Johnson January 2002

Is that racist enough?
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Goat Boy » 13 Aug 2018, 08:24

Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Copehead » 14 Aug 2018, 08:09

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/aug/14/bds-boycott-divestment-sanctions-movement-transformed-israeli-palestinian-debate

Although this is primarily about the BDS movement there is a lot of background information on the Israeli Palestinian conflict.

It basically skewers Israel's claim that it is a real democracy even though it is calm, quotes both sides and is no polemic.

Now Israeli diplomats are being quietly expelled from the UK for trying to subvert our democracy by "taking down" MPs ( one wonders who he could mean ).

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/07/israeli-diplomat-shai-masot-caught-on-camera-plotting-to-take-down-uk-mps

And Netanyahu is saying things that would get him kicked out of the Labour Party as an anti-Semite.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/netanyahu-absolves-hitler-of-guilt-1.5411578

We are down the rabbit hole on this one.

When a "newspaper" that anti-semitically hounded the last, Jewish Labour leader starts hounding the new one, a life long anti-racism campaigner, for being anti-Semitic we have lost touch with anything normal.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Diamond Dog » 14 Aug 2018, 21:18

Dennis Skinner :

Have seen the U.K. reports that Jeremy Corbyn laid a wreath at the grave of the Munich Terrorists in Tunisia. This report carries the small logistical problem of the Munich Terrorists being buried in Libya, not Tunisia. The commemoration Jeremy attended was to mark the 1985 bombing of Tunisia by Israel that killed 47. Now, in fairness to the Daily Mail, Libya and Tunisia are in the minds of its readership as much of a muchness. But if you crack out that atlas and scroll your finger along North Africa you’ll see them damn natives actually make up two different countries. I can confirm Jeremy has never attended a wreath laying ceremony in Libya, nor has he attended the service of a Munich Terrorist. Enjoy the rest of your day folks.x
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby C. » 14 Aug 2018, 21:24

Might have helped if JC himself had said something like that - quickly and clearly.

He's such a fucking sap.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby C. » 14 Aug 2018, 21:39

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"ooh what's that Jeremy? you don't support terrorism in any form and you have never attended a wreath-laying ceremony in Libya?"
C wrote:I said nothing for years but enough is enough.


Lord Rother wrote:Big Big Train’s Gregory Spawton sums it up pretty well

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Copehead » 14 Aug 2018, 22:06

CAN wrote:Might have helped if JC himself had said something like that - quickly and clearly.

He's such a fucking sap.


As if the media are going to treat him fairly in this; sap.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2018/aug/14/steve-bell-on-jeremy-corbyn-row-with-benjamin-netanyahu-cartoon#img-1
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Copehead » 14 Aug 2018, 22:23

Diamond Dog wrote:Dennis Skinner :

Have seen the U.K. reports that Jeremy Corbyn laid a wreath at the grave of the Munich Terrorists in Tunisia. This report carries the small logistical problem of the Munich Terrorists being buried in Libya, not Tunisia. The commemoration Jeremy attended was to mark the 1985 bombing of Tunisia by Israel that killed 47. Now, in fairness to the Daily Mail, Libya and Tunisia are in the minds of its readership as much of a muchness. But if you crack out that atlas and scroll your finger along North Africa you’ll see them damn natives actually make up two different countries. I can confirm Jeremy has never attended a wreath laying ceremony in Libya, nor has he attended the service of a Munich Terrorist. Enjoy the rest of your day folks.x



https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/14/corbyn-wreath-terror-victims-memorial-israel-palestinian
Just the facts Ma'am.

The Daily Mail tells lies, I mean who would have thought that?
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Butch Manly » 15 Aug 2018, 09:18

It's not a witch hunt, though.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Samoan » 15 Aug 2018, 13:04

" For Corbyn, precision and honesty are the way out of this wreath mess "

Jonathan Freedland

" Controversies such as the wreath row will keep happening unless the Labour leader defends himself candidly and in full.

Jeremy Corbyn did an event in Stoke last night, and a reporter interviewed some of the 400 or so supporters who had turned out to hear him. Among other things, Lewis Goodall of Sky News sought their views on “wreathgate”, the ongoing row about the ceremony Corbyn attended in Tunis in 2014. “Everyone we spoke to agreed,” Goodall wrote afterwards. “Corbyn is being smeared, Labour does not have a problem with antisemitism and that the whole thing is largely concocted by the media and Tories.”

One of the more useful phrases of our time is “tribal epistemology”, the notion that what people know is increasingly linked to the group they identify with. The wreath row has been a case in point. There is no single, agreed set of facts on which the various sides hold different opinions. Instead, among those most heatedly involved, the facts or evidence people see and don’t see depend on their tribal or factional affiliation.

Which is how a set of photographs from a Tunis cemetery has become the object of such controversy. Neutrals are probably either confused by the whole business and tune out, or they tend towards the view of that crowd in Stoke: that the media have falsely trashed Corbyn in the past – witness the baseless Czech spy accusation – and therefore are not to be taken too seriously now.

For those reasons, Corbyn and Labour will surely ride out this current storm. Nevertheless, rows like this one are not good for the party: they take up time and energy that might otherwise be devoted to opposing the government or advancing Labour’s own programme. How then should Labour deal with this argument and others like it which, if the past is any guide, are likely to keep on coming?

On the Tunis episode, there are three options. The first is to say that everything that happened, every wreath that was laid, was solely in honour of those killed in the 1985 Israeli bombing of PLO headquarters in Tunis. That was the line taken by the pro-Corbyn MP Chris Williamson as he toured BBC studios on Tuesday, and enthusiastically echoed by Corbyn supporters online. Its great strength is that deploring the 1985 bombing is not controversial: even Margaret Thatcher did it.

But there are two problems with the “1985-only” line. For one thing, the photographs clearly show two distinct wreath-laying moments: one at the 1985 memorial, with Jeremy Corbyn hovering at the back, and another at a visibly different location, by the graves of senior PLO leaders reputedly involved in the 1970s with the Black September faction, which organised the massacre and torture of Israeli Olympic athletes in Munich in 1972. The men buried there had no connection with 1985, and it’s in that location that Corbyn is pictured holding a wreath.

What’s more, Corbyn himself explicitly wrote, in the Morning Star after the Tunis trip, that 1985 was not the sole focus of the ceremonies: “Wreaths were laid at the graves of those who died on that day and on the graves of others killed by Mossad agents in Paris in 1991.” So the photographs and Corbyn’s own words make the 1985-only line unsustainable.

The second approach available to Corbyn would be to say that he has long been a devoted supporter of the Palestinians and on that day in 2014 he was not going to get too hung up on the exact details of this plaque or that grave, which were anyway opaque to him as a non-speaker of Arabic: what mattered was standing in solidarity with his Palestinian friends. But perhaps he worries that would sound insufficiently discerning for a would-be prime minister.

The third option would be to say: “Yes, as the photographs show, I did lay a wreath at the graves of Salah Khalaf, known as Abu Iyad, along with Hayel Abdel-Hamid and Fakhri al Omari. I knew exactly who they were and I make no apology for that.” The argument the Labour leader could make would be that perhaps those men were leaders of the group behind the murderous Munich attack, but they changed course: Khalaf became one of the prime proponents of the PLO’s shift away from violence and towards diplomacy. Corbyn could say that it was precisely that journey that he was honouring that day in Tunis.

The trouble is, if that had indeed been Corbyn’s motivation he would surely have mentioned it in that Morning Star article or since. Instead he has left the impression that he is a bit vague about who these men were. He wrote that they were killed in Paris, when in fact it was Tunis. He said they were killed by Mossad agents, when in fact they were killed by a rival Palestinian faction. (It’s possible Corbyn was confusing those three with a fourth man, Atef Bsesio, also allegedly linked to Munich and also buried in that same cemetery: he was reportedly killed by Mossad agents in Paris – though that was in 1992, not 1991.)

The point is, there is a way to deal with these questions which, given Corbyn’s record of activism, will keep coming. It will require precision and candour, rather than I-didn’t-inhale formulations such as “I was present but not involved”, especially when the pictures say otherwise.

Chiefly, it will mean honestly admitting that when he attended events like this one – and this goes for his history in Northern Ireland too – he was not there as some neutral peace broker, as he now suggests, but as a vocal supporter of one side against the other. He was not an intermediary in either Israel/Palestine or Northern Ireland: if he had been, he would have been scrupulous about meeting all sides, which he never did, and expressing either no solidarity with any side or plenty with all of them, which was also not his way.

Instead, in Israel/Palestine his position was not that of a healing conciliator of two warring peoples, but rather “to eradicate Zionism”, to cite the stated goal of the Labour Movement Campaign for Palestine of which he was a sponsor. In Northern Ireland, he was for republicanism and against unionism, taking part for example in a 1987 ceremony to honour not all victims of terrorism, but eight IRA gunmen killed by the SAS. As he put it at the time: “I’m happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for an independent Ireland.”

In these conflicts, Corbyn did not sit on the fence or act as some even-handed negotiator. He chose sides. That’s what makes him who he is; it’s what many people admire about him. To his most loyal supporters he can perhaps pretend that he spent decades as some kind of unofficial UN peace envoy. But for everyone else, he needs to have an honest, precise reckoning with his past. Otherwise, what happened this week will keep happening."

• Jonathan Freedland is a Guardian columnist

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/15/jeremy-corbyn-honesty-labour-wreath-mess
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Diamond Dog » 15 Aug 2018, 13:18

The Guardian continuing to plant half truths and smears about Corbyn? Who knew.

How many consecutive days is it now that they have posted a main story regarding Corbyn's alleged anti-semitism? Two, three weeks?

No other news worth leading on in that time?

It's almost like they have an agenda - propagated and fuelled by those who have, in the past, clearly shown that they have an agenda too.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Jimbo » 15 Aug 2018, 13:35

Diamond Dog wrote:The Guardian continuing to plant half truths and smears about Corbyn? Who knew.

How many consecutive days is it now the they have posted a main story regarding Corbyn's alleged anti-semitism? Two, three weeks?

No other news worth leading on in that time?

It's almost like they have an agenda - propagated and fuelled by thos who have, in the past, clearly shown that they have an agenda too.


Good for you! Now extrapolate this thinking to how the Guardian reports about Russia, the Skripal case, Syria and the White Helmets, etc.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Goat Boy » 15 Aug 2018, 14:02

Beautiful
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Goat Boy » 15 Aug 2018, 14:27

CAN wrote:Might have helped if JC himself had said something like that - quickly and clearly.

He's such a fucking sap.


Why would he? It hardly exonerates him. Skinner is either being incredibly disingenuous or simply ignorant. I suspect his statement was in response to an article which did the rounds on social media recently as some kind of rebuttal of the Daily Mail article. The argument is that none of the 8 terrorists who carried out the attack are buried there but the ones in the cemetery Corbyn visited are only “linked” to the attack through their alleged membership of Black September, the terrorist faction of the PLO – they were all high ranking PLO members of course - and therefore there is nothing to see here, move on people.

None of the terrorists who carried out the attack are buried there but that’s not the crux of the Daily Mail’s criticisms:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6048807/Photos-Labour-leader-Corbyn-tribute-event-Palestine-martyrs-linked-Munich-massacre.html

Even a stopped clock. Corbyn knows he’s up shit creek with this one which is why when the story first broke in May 2017 in the Sunday Times he denied even being involved in the laying of a wreath at the memorial for the “martyrs”, instead claiming he was there to pay tribute to the victims at a separate memorial for an Israeli air strike in 1985. He then had to backtrack after the photos appeared from the Palestinian Embassy website archive that show him at the separate memorial for the “martyrs” as described in the Daily Mail article.

Corbyn has even contradicted himself in this article published in The Morning Star in October 2014:

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/a-98de-palestine-united-1

After wreaths were laid at the graves of those who died on that day and on the graves of others killed by Mossad agents in Paris in 1991


After backtracking following the publication of the photos – and his contradictory comments in the Morning Star – Corbyn now laughably claims that, yes, he was there at a memorial for men strongly linked to the organisation and planning of the Munich attack but that he doesn’t think he was “actually involved” despite, you know, holding the actual wreath and stuff and also being photographed joining in with prayers for the “martyrs”.

He then offers this as an explanation:

“I was there because I wanted to see a fitting memorial to everyone who has died in every terrorist incident everywhere.


It’s funny that he doesn’t turn up at memorials for Israeli victims of Palestinian terrorists or the unionist victims of Irish Republican terrorists huh? And yet are expected to believe this ptooey.

If you want to go into more detail then I can recommend this:

https://medium.com/@anyabike/corbyns-open-secret-22a70fa03254

Which backs up the Daily Mail’s findings in regards to who is buried there and where Corbyn was when the photographs were taken. I think they conclusively prove that Corbyn helped lay the wreath at the graves of these three people which Corbyn himself has obviously admitted to despite not being “actually involved” obviously.

Salah Khalag also known as Abu Iyad
Fakhri al-Omari also known as Abu al-Hol
Hayel Abdel-Hamid

And also Atef Bseiso who was believed to have been implicated in the Munich attack by the head of Mossad and the head of Israel’s military intelligence (Uri Sagi). This conclusion was backed by Aaron J. Klein who was Time magazine’s military and intelligence affairs correspondent in the Jerusalem bureau.

Salah Khalaf was believed to have been the founder of Black September by the American and Israeli intelligence services:

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Salah-Khalaf

Now of course some will naturally dismiss the above and believe the PLO’s version of events and I suspect Corbyn did too which is why he was happy to be there. In situations like this, however, I am naturally inclined to go along with the opinions of experts rather than the opinions of Islamist terrorists. Personal bias, I know.

Al Omari was commemorated by Fatah on their Facebook page however. Here is the original link:

https://www.facebook.com/officialfateh1965/photos/a.1591709777754363.1073741828.1591249977800343/1798973610361311/?type=3&theater

Born in the city of Jaffa in 1936, one of the first to join the Palestinian revolution. Participated in the first security course sent by fatah to Cairo. Co-founded the security and monitoring apparatus in Jordan with salah behind Abu Iyad. He worked in leading the security apparatus of the Palestinian revolution. He co-LED a number of special and quality operations and was chief of operations and assassinations of black September. The owner of the Munich operation was directly responsible for the group implemented in the name of move (Talal). He LED the rabat process in Morocco during the 1974 Rabat Summit, in Morocco, arrested with 13 Fida, and was released with his companions after abu Hands. An attempt was made to kill him in Lebanon in 1978 with a car bomb, inside 150 kilograms of TNT, and the car was discovered by one of the shops and was attempted in Yugoslavia In 1979 She had a hearing on the right ear. He was a senior security officer and the second man in the unified security service headed by Abu Iyad. He was assassinated on January 14, 1991 in Tunisia with salah behind (Abu Iyad) and issues Abdulhamid (Aboalhoul) after receiving about thirty bullets trying to catch the killer hamza Abu Zaid and protect Abby hands. He was married with three sons.


So Fatah themselves state he was the “chief of operations and assassinations of Black September” and “directly responsible” for the group that implemented it. He was also an aide to Mr Khalaf aka Abu Iyad.

Although to be fair to Corbyn that was from 2016, 2 years after Corbyn visited. But even so are we really expected to believe that Corbyn was not aware of the links to Black September and the Munich attack of Abu Iyad or Atef Bseiso that are supported by the Israeli’s and Americans? Did he just not care? Or did he think it was all some kind of joint Israeli/US smear campaign against virtuous freedom fighting men? Or that it was something that could simply be overlooked? Bitch, please.

Watching the torturous mental contortions and facile whataboutery of the likes of Owen Jones on this issue is both pitiful and hilarious but it’s typical of some whose ideological and personal loyalty to Corbyn has now reached its credulous conclusion with predictable, pathetic results.

There’s also this of course:

Image

I iz down wiv da Muslim kids, yeah bro?!

They say a picture can tell a thousand words but with Corbyn you really don’t need many to sum him up. We’ve all met one. He’s the twat at uni in the Che Guevara t shirt who doesn’t wash properly, who never shuts up about revolutionary communism and who earnestly refers to colleagues as “comrades”. He’s that guy and for the past 50 years he’s been living in that squalid little bubble without the political and emotional intelligence to actually develop past this adolescent larval stage and now he is hung in perpetual revolutionary suspension like some [email protected] far left Peter Pan.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Toby » 15 Aug 2018, 14:50

And I bet he leaves the Arsenal matches after 80 minutes if they’re not winning 3-0.

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Diamond Dog » 15 Aug 2018, 14:52

Goat Boy wrote:They say a picture can tell a thousand words but with Corbyn you really don’t need many to sum him up. We’ve all met one. He’s the twat at uni in the Che Guevara t shirt who doesn’t wash properly, who never shuts up about revolutionary communism and who earnestly refers to colleagues as “comrades”. He’s that guy and for the past 50 years he’s been living in that squalid little bubble without the political and emotional intelligence to actually develop past this adolescent larval stage and now he is hung in perpetual revolutionary suspension like some [email protected] far left Peter Pan.


Talking about agendas.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Goat Boy » 15 Aug 2018, 14:54

Diamond Dog wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:They say a picture can tell a thousand words but with Corbyn you really don’t need many to sum him up. We’ve all met one. He’s the twat at uni in the Che Guevara t shirt who doesn’t wash properly, who never shuts up about revolutionary communism and who earnestly refers to colleagues as “comrades”. He’s that guy and for the past 50 years he’s been living in that squalid little bubble without the political and emotional intelligence to actually develop past this adolescent larval stage and now he is hung in perpetual revolutionary suspension like some [email protected] far left Peter Pan.


Talking about agendas.


But I don't mind you, Pete
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Goat Boy » 15 Aug 2018, 14:55

Toby wrote:And I bet he leaves the Arsenal matches after 80 minutes if they’re not winning 3-0.


I've heard he's a big Gentle Giant fan too.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Samoan » 15 Aug 2018, 15:14

....and EastEnders :)
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