The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Goat Boy
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Goat Boy » 07 Aug 2018, 14:08

Tonto Papadopoulos wrote:
Not to mention your condescending attitude.


For a second then Pete I thought you were referring to when he was talking down to a Palestinian woman on this thread.


Were you in drag or summat?
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Tonto Papadopoulos » 07 Aug 2018, 14:09

Deebank wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:When you have the (future) Labour leader listening to people describing Israel as a "disease" and he doesn't pull them up on that then that is a problem. Would you agree, Pete? His silence is complicity condoning that point of view.


Again I think your reaction says more about your view of Corbyn than it does about the man himself.

To me it looks like someone shutting down the debate, refusing to engage with a nutter.
By far the most sensible way of dealing with that sort of caller I would say.


Agreed. It's not rocket science.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Tonto Papadopoulos » 07 Aug 2018, 14:11

Goat Boy wrote:
Tonto Papadopoulos wrote:
Not to mention your condescending attitude.


For a second then Pete I thought you were referring to when he was talking down to a Palestinian woman on this thread.


Were you in drag or summat?


Keep digging, lad.
Goatboy to Belle:

"I suggest you retreat to the safety of your Facebook bubble. Griff has a post he needs you to like."

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Goat Boy » 07 Aug 2018, 14:21

Tonto Papadopoulos wrote:
Deebank wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:When you have the (future) Labour leader listening to people describing Israel as a "disease" and he doesn't pull them up on that then that is a problem. Would you agree, Pete? His silence is complicity condoning that point of view.


Again I think your reaction says more about your view of Corbyn than it does about the man himself.

To me it looks like someone shutting down the debate, refusing to engage with a nutter.
By far the most sensible way of dealing with that sort of caller I would say.


Agreed. It's not rocket science.


Caller calls Israel a disease, man who has spent his life fighting Antisemitism according to you says nothing. Nice one, Jeremy, fight the power
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Goat Boy » 07 Aug 2018, 14:23

Tonto Papadopoulos wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:
Tonto Papadopoulos wrote:
For a second then Pete I thought you were referring to when he was talking down to a Palestinian woman on this thread.


Were you in drag or summat?


Keep digging, lad.


I think we are finished here Griff
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Tonto Papadopoulos » 07 Aug 2018, 14:29

Goat Boy wrote:
Tonto Papadopoulos wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:
Were you in drag or summat?


Keep digging, lad.


I think we are finished here Griff


Not until you've apologised to Carol.
Goatboy to Belle:

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Goat Boy » 07 Aug 2018, 14:36

Tonto Papadopoulos wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:
Tonto Papadopoulos wrote:
Keep digging, lad.


I think we are finished here Griff


Not until you've apologised to Carol.


And here was me thinking Carol was from York!

You’re a cheap cunt, Griff.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Tonto Papadopoulos » 07 Aug 2018, 14:44

*face palm*
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Deebank » 07 Aug 2018, 14:48

Goat Boy wrote:
Tonto Papadopoulos wrote:
Deebank wrote:
Again I think your reaction says more about your view of Corbyn than it does about the man himself.

To me it looks like someone shutting down the debate, refusing to engage with a nutter.
By far the most sensible way of dealing with that sort of caller I would say.


Agreed. It's not rocket science.


Caller calls Israel a disease, man who has spent his life fighting Antisemitism according to you says nothing. Nice one, Jeremy, fight the power



Like I say. To me this seems like the sensible, reasonable reaction; to you an anti-semitic outrage. :roll:
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Goat Boy » 07 Aug 2018, 14:53

Diamond Dog wrote:
I absolutely do not struggle with the abstract.


Ok, Pete, you do not struggle with the abstract

I struggle with your pure supposition stated as evidence :


It's not stated as evidence. I know you can't prove such propositions and, yes, I do think the current crises shows that far left bollocks has infiltrated the heart of Labour and that, yes, I would link that to opening up the doors to any cunt. That's my causality. One that cannot be evidenced but one that I believe is reasonable to infer based on the evidence of what we are seeing right now.


Diamond Dog wrote:Not to mention your condescending attitude.


I apologise for being condescending. You're not exactly shy at being a cunt yourself at times :)

Diamond Dog wrote:It's arrant fucking nonsense. Deep down you know it too, I suspect.


I don't think it is, no. Do you think Corbyn should have pulled that caller up for labeling Israel a "disease" btw? What with him being a campaigner against anti-Semitism his whole life etc
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Goat Boy » 07 Aug 2018, 14:54

Deebank wrote:
Goat Boy wrote:
Tonto Papadopoulos wrote:
Agreed. It's not rocket science.


Caller calls Israel a disease, man who has spent his life fighting Antisemitism according to you says nothing. Nice one, Jeremy, fight the power


Like I say. To me this seems like the sensible, reasonable reaction; to you an anti-semitic outrage. :roll:


No. It's an example of Corbyn not challenging anti-semitism when confronted with it.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Tonto Papadopoulos » 07 Aug 2018, 14:58

Goat Boy wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:
I absolutely do not struggle with the abstract.


Ok, Pete, you do not struggle with the abstract

I struggle with your pure supposition stated as evidence :


It's not stated as evidence. I know you can't prove such propositions...


:roll:
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Diamond Dog » 07 Aug 2018, 15:07

Diamond Dog wrote:
I absolutely do not struggle with the abstract.


Goat Boy wrote:Ok, Pete, you do not struggle with the abstract

I struggle with your pure supposition stated as evidence :


It's not stated as evidence. I know you can't prove such propositions and, yes, I do think the current crises shows that far left bollocks has infiltrated the heart of Labour and that, yes, I would link that to opening up the doors to any cunt. That's my causality. One that cannot be evidenced but one that I believe is reasonable to infer based on the evidence of what we are seeing right now.


Okay:

Goat Boy wrote:The three pound entry thing opened the doors to all kinds of unsavory cunts from the far left sadly.



Which part of that is not presented as evidence?
The undefined being negotiated by the unprepared in order to get the unspecified for the uninformed.

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby The Modernist » 07 Aug 2018, 15:29

Goat Boy wrote:
To go back to this:

Early in Jeremy Corbyn’s term as Labour leader, I remember watching clips of a phone-in he hosted for Press TV, Iran’s official television channel. (These have now been deleted from YouTube.) In one, he listened politely as a caller described Israel as a “disease” – not agreeing, but not disagreeing either – and replied: “OK, thank you for your call”. Another caller described the BBC as “Zionist liars”, to equally little reaction. The clips stuck in my head because there was none of that panicked look I associate with radio and TV hosts when they realise they’ve got a nutter on the line and need to shut them down as quickly as possible. Jeremy Corbyn, I thought, must be used to hearing sentiments like that.


When you have the (future) Labour leader listening to people describing Israel as a "disease" and he doesn't pull them up on that then that is a problem. Would you agree, Pete? His silence is complicity condoning that point of view. Now, imagine you are some anti-Zionist and/or anti-semite who is on the left and you watch that clip of your leader doing that? Can you understand how this sorta thing might embolden people and ecourage them to join a party where the party leader complicitly condones the idea is Israel is a "disease" which also implies of course, that it needs to be, er cured?

I don't think linking these things is absurd, Pete.


I'm glad you've posted that example because it typifies, for me, one of the main issues here. Let's look at this:

We are condemning Corbyn on a second hand account, by someone anonymous, on his behaviour on a programme that is unavailable and can't be checked and we are doing it without context or detail.
You can see how this might be very problematic?
This is why people are using phrases like 'witch hunt' on this. A whole heap of mud is being flung at him with the hope that some of it will stick. It is being done within the context of social media outrage and hysteria, which, sadly, is the world we live in now and one where facts quickly fall by the wayside. Your argument from the beginning, frankly, has been full of this kind of 'guilt by association', 'no smoke without fire' type argument. It is highly emotive and yes I believe there is an agenda here (from the people who are engineering these attacks in the media) - people are being manipulated.

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Goat Boy » 07 Aug 2018, 15:37

Diamond Dog wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:
I absolutely do not struggle with the abstract.


Goat Boy wrote:Ok, Pete, you do not struggle with the abstract

I struggle with your pure supposition stated as evidence :


It's not stated as evidence. I know you can't prove such propositions and, yes, I do think the current crises shows that far left bollocks has infiltrated the heart of Labour and that, yes, I would link that to opening up the doors to any cunt. That's my causality. One that cannot be evidenced but one that I believe is reasonable to infer based on the evidence of what we are seeing right now.

Okay:

Goat Boy wrote:The three pound entry thing opened the doors to all kinds of unsavory cunts from the far left sadly.



Which part of that is not presented as evidence?


Do I need to add imo after that to reinforce that? I am not presenting facts, I am implying causality between different events: the opening up of the Labour party which significantly increased the membership and the influence of Corbyn as leader. Is it really so far fetched to infer that the
significant increase in member numbers also meant a significant increase in undesirables and that due to Corbyns history, associations and position on Israel it has created a toxicity within the party?

Maybe you should also ask some people on this thread for evidence of the witch hunt that proves what is actually going on here. Maybe someone should ask for the evidence that proves Louise Ellman was actually at that event with Corbyn rather than some second hand recollection that cannot be verified. Maybe someone should ask for the evidence that proves Mandelson is secretly orchestrating things along with Campbell. Maybe someone should ask for the evidence that proves that there is a "coordinated attack" by British Jews and the right wing media, that shadowy cabal determined to strike at the heart of our democracy. Maybe someone should ask for proof that the British Jews who are criticising Corbyn and Labour are right wing "ultra zionists" who object to Corbyn simply because he is a socialist and critical of Israel rather than a broad coalition of British Jews across the political spectrum who object to Corbyn and their handling of anti-semitism within the party.

If you do that of course then the foundation of this thread and what some posters are so vehemently claiming will be revealed as "bollocks", Pete.

What you are left with, as I have explained before are: ideological beliefs, belief in Corbyn's superior virtue, deep rooted partisan loyalties and paranoid conspiratorial beliefs that have enabled people to construct this paranoid fantasy about what is really going on.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Diamond Dog » 07 Aug 2018, 15:47

Goat Boy wrote:
Do I need to add imo after that to reinforce that? I am not presenting facts, I am implying causality between different events: the opening up of the Labour party which significantly increased the membership and the influence of Corbyn as leader. Is it really so far fetched to infer that the
significant increase in member numbers also meant a significant increase in undesirables and that due to Corbyns history, associations and position on Israel it has created a toxicity within the party?


.


Yes actually it is. It's a complete non sequitur, it truly is. There is absolutely no evidence that this is true, not a single shred. You have just wished that to be, to reinforce your view that Corbyn is weak on Anti-Semitism and the increase in membership was the enabler to it running rife throughout the party.

What you've actually done is worked backwards :

I believe Corbyn is weak on Anti-Semitism, therefore
He's looking to get the party to mirror his views, therefore
There are many people with similar views in the party, therefore
They all joined during the £3 membership period, therefore
Corbyn orchestrated that to get a party that echoes his weakness on anti-semitism.

Now - how does that look?

It's called reverse engineering Dougie. You have made the plot fit the final chapter.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby The Modernist » 07 Aug 2018, 15:49

Mass democratic movements, historically, are often tarnished with accusations of being a "mob", or being in the pay of Moscow, or being anarchists with a hidden agenda to destroy society or whatever the latest folk devil is. All this goes back to De Tocqueville and it reflects the fear of the establishment that the people will enact real change.
What you've written above Dougie is just latest iteration of this kind of thought.

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby CAN » 07 Aug 2018, 15:52

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Toby » 07 Aug 2018, 16:35

I know, it really is bloody dreadful. Just pages and pages of hectoring back and forth over details about which no-one has any concrete evidence of anything.

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby The Modernist » 07 Aug 2018, 16:44

Toby wrote:I know, it really is bloody dreadful. Just pages and pages of hectoring back and forth over details about which no-one has any concrete evidence of anything.


19 pages though. My threads are great!
I reckon this one will do even better than 'word association'.