The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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yomptepi
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby yomptepi » 04 Sep 2018, 00:28

Pansy Puff wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Pansy Puff wrote:
I agree. My point was that any changes in stamp duty shouldn't be retrospectively applied, just like any changes in student loans. It would be nice and it would be fair, but it's real pie in the sky.


Just like every other item in the manifesto. Pie in the sky. Did anyone ever point out to you that we are broke. ( thanks to a Labour government)

I can only assume you are deliberately misunderstanding what I have written. No one is that stupid.
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I think you miss my point. But I will play if you like.

of course taxes should not be levied retrospectively. That would be grossly unfair and hugely unpopular.

With student loans you have more of a problem. You either admit that it was mistake for Blair's Labour government to introduce them in the first place ( despite his promises that he would do no such thing), and let everyone off the debts they have, and return their repayments. Thus everyone who suffered at the hands of the policy is treated equally, and you get the bonus of about three million votes ( and some singing). Or you simply stop all future loans, and go back to a free system, and just tell those that have paid thousands and thousands in loan repayments that it is just tough. Which means there are ( for arguments sake) three million people who will no longer sing for you, and who quite possibly will never ever vote for you again. You also have the added problem that young people who do now have free university education do not normally vote, and within a week they will all have forgotten about how they could have had student debt, and will once again be spending all their grant money on cocktails and skunk, and will have forgotten all about kind uncle Jezza. And his song.

Also you are either billion a year worse off ( for ever)
Or you are 100 billion worse off. and 9 billion a year worse ( for ever)

Neither are sums of money you have, or are likely to have in the next 20 years, especially with Heathrow expansion and HS2 to pay for.

So Corbyn's play was to lie to the student's for short term popularity, and some bonus singing. Once the student's realised they had been duped, you will notice that the special festival arranged by the Corbyn Stasi,failed to attract any students at all, and there was no singing, except a rather embarrassed group of witless devotee's.

Which is why any change to student debt will be dependent upon freeing ALL students from their debts, not just the university aged children of the current Labour party. And why it is not comparable with levying a tax retrospectively. Student loans are not a tax. They are a loan.

And before you start, I think student loans are a terrible idea.
I also think sending 50% of young people to university is a terrible idea.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Pansy Puff » 04 Sep 2018, 06:40

I partly agree.

It was a mistake to introduce loans, and certainly to push them up to £9,000. The idea that the market would take care of things fell apart when every institution charge £9,000 (obvious, really. If you don't charge £9,000 you're saying your course is worth less than other courses). It also resulted in students as 'customers' with a very different set up protocols and expectations. A disaster, really.
And they way the loan systems works, huge chunks won't be paid back anyway, even by the very wealthy. But they do impact on people's credit rating. As you say: a loan, not a tax. A tax would have been a much better idea.
But it is impossible to cancel 10+ years of that debt in one go. And Corbyn never said he would. It is you that is lying to suggest he did. If you can show me one direct quote where he said more than, “Yes, there is a block of those that currently have a massive debt, and I’m looking at ways that we could reduce that, ameliorate that, lengthen the period of paying it off, or some other means of reducing that debt burden. I don’t have the simple answer for it yet - I don’t think anybody would expect me to, because this election was called unexpectedly; we had two weeks to prepare all this - but I’m very well aware of that problem, and I don’t see why those that had the historical misfortune to be at university during the £9,000 period should be burdened excessively compared to those that went before or those that come after. I will deal with it.”

Better apprenticeships would be a good idea too, young people don't have to go to university, but there's not much out there nowadays.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby yomptepi » 04 Sep 2018, 07:22

Pansy Puff wrote:
Better apprenticeships would be a good idea too, young people don't have to go to university, but there's not much out there nowadays.


Indeed.
Apprenticeships are a good idea, but they have to be properly funded. You cannot expect a young person to go to work, and do a full days work for as little as £90 a week. An apprentice needs to live too, and in my experience ( and we always ran apprentice schemes at my company) it is always the money which leads to most of the lads giving up and getting a job in Screwfix. We always paid minimum wage to our apprentices, but a lot of companies do only pay as little as £90 a week. If we want training to become as popular as university, then it has to be given more status, because at the moment it is seen as the route failures take. And a lot of that is down to teachers.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Pansy Puff » 04 Sep 2018, 07:39

I was with you until the last line, which I assume was there as a little dig.
I was the Head of sixth form for a few years, and would promote all routes beyond year 13. I couldn't promote things that didn't exist.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby yomptepi » 04 Sep 2018, 09:14

Pansy Puff wrote:I was with you until the last line, which I assume was there as a little dig.
I was the Head of sixth form for a few years, and would promote all routes beyond year 13. I couldn't promote things that didn't exist.


The company I worked for ran work experience courses for 15 year olds for 20 years. We had arrangements with local secondary schools to take students who were interested in a career in building. In the 20 odd years I ran that program, including annual visits to the schools to promote the WE course) we had three places filled. On each occasion I asked the lads why so few people came to see what a building job would be like, and was always given the same answer. That teachers were dismissive of students who wanted to work with their hands, and that they were made to feel stupid.

Draw your own conclusions.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Copehead » 04 Sep 2018, 11:21

Image

Demonstrators outside the Labour Party HQ today kind of giving the game away about what this is really about
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Diamond Dog » 07 Sep 2018, 06:23

If ever proof was needed that Corbyn has taken the party to the right place :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45438855

Tony Blair says he is "not sure it is possible" for Labour "moderates" to take the party back from the left.

The former Labour leader told the BBC's Nick Robinson Labour had been through a "profound change" under Jeremy Corbyn.

"It is a different type of Labour Party. Can it be taken back? I don't know," he said.

He said the British people would never elect Mr Corbyn prime minister and hinted at the emergence of a new "progressive, moderate" party.


So get ready for another SDP/Liberal alliance - with Saint Tony at the helm.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby yomptepi » 07 Sep 2018, 08:43

Diamond Dog wrote:If ever proof was needed that Corbyn has taken the party to the right place :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45438855

Tony Blair says he is "not sure it is possible" for Labour "moderates" to take the party back from the left.

The former Labour leader told the BBC's Nick Robinson Labour had been through a "profound change" under Jeremy Corbyn.

"It is a different type of Labour Party. Can it be taken back? I don't know," he said.

He said the British people would never elect Mr Corbyn prime minister and hinted at the emergence of a new "progressive, moderate" party.


So get ready for another SDP/Liberal alliance - with Saint Tony at the helm.


And I am sure that he will be able to count on your vote. As he always did before.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Diamond Dog » 07 Sep 2018, 08:46

Slow day Mike?
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Nikki Gradual » 07 Sep 2018, 08:51

Blair still doesn't get that he was the anomaly does he? Fucking prick.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby yomptepi » 07 Sep 2018, 09:35

Diamond Dog wrote:Slow day Mike?


another empty day in retirementville
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby yomptepi » 07 Sep 2018, 09:37

Nikki Gradual wrote:Blair still doesn't get that he was the anomaly does he? Fucking prick.


Well, he did win 3 consecutive election on the trot. All with good majorities. He has every right to think he still carries the support of the witless cunts who voted for him before. After all , if they were stupid enough then...
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Diamond Dog » 07 Sep 2018, 09:47

yomptepi wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:Slow day Mike?


another empty day in retirementville


I am not sure this retirement lark is good for you. Fancy swapping?
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby yomptepi » 07 Sep 2018, 09:52

Diamond Dog wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:Slow day Mike?


another empty day in retirementville


I am not sure this retirement lark is good for you. Fancy swapping?

I might give it a few more weeks. It's not all bad...
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Butch Manly » 07 Sep 2018, 12:12

Joan Ryan lost a vote of no-confidence at her Enfield North CLP meeting last night. Expect all sorts of wailing about entryism, trots and anti-semitism. In fact, the members exercised their democratic right to censure her - at a very respectful, polite meeting, by all accounts, in spite of members being harassed by aggressive militant Zionists on the way in - over her undermining and slandering of Corbyn and I expect this (from Wiki) has much to do with it too:

Expenses
In October 2007, the Evening Standard reported that Joan Ryan claimed £173,691 in expenses for the 2006/2007 tax year,[3] the highest for any MP. She was the second highest claimant in the 2005/2006 tax year.

In May 2009, it was reported that Ryan had claimed more than £4,500 under the Additional Costs Allowance for work on a house she had designated as her second home.[4] In February 2010, based on an audit report looking into the United Kingdom parliamentary expenses scandal, Ryan was asked to repay £5,121 mortgage interest.[5]

In 2012, The Independent reported that "[a]t least 10 attempts have been made from computers in Parliament to remove information about [Ryan's] expenses claims and a further 20 efforts to delete the information, some from her constituency of Enfield North, have also been recorded in Wikipedia's logs."[6]

During the 2015 general election, The Daily Telegraph returned to this issue. In Ryan's case, the entire expenses section was deleted, including information on repairs and decorations on her home paid for out of her MP's expenses; the edits were made while Ryan was not an MP, and she denied involvement.[7]


Labour leadership of Jeremy Corbyn
In August 2015, Ryan became Chair of the Labour Friends of Israel. In the 2015 Labour Leadership election, she urged those voting to choose a candidate who in government could "play a constructive and engaged role in the crucial search for a" two-state solution to resolve the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. In particular, she noted the "deep concerns" which arise from the positions Jeremy Corbyn had taken in the past and the "serious questions which arise from these".[12]

In the Al-Jazeera documentary, The Lobby, Ryan was secretly filmed having a discussion with a fellow member of the Labour Party. The member - Jean Fitzpatrick - is filmed questioning Ryan on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. At one point, Fitzpatrick mentions Labour Friends of Israel enjoying a certain amount of influence and prestige, having helped a friend's son gain a place at Oxford University. This was then reported by Ryan as a case of anti-Semitism, who accused the member of repeating a classic anti-Semitic trope.

During the 2017 general election, Ryan urged constituents in her election literature to vote for her because she was "independent-minded" in the context of the perceived unpopularity of Jeremy Corbyn.[13] She wrote in her election letter that constituents she had spoken to had more faith in Theresa May as PM, than in Corbyn as May's potential successor. Ryan, in-line with most opinion polls, said she expected May's government to return with a much larger number of MPs, but argued that she was well placed to fight against such a Conservative majority.[13][14] It was the fifth time Ryan and Nick de Bois had stood against each other.[15]

On 6 September 2018, her Constituency Labour Party narrowly passed a motion of no confidence in her. [16]
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Samoan » 07 Sep 2018, 12:15

I'm not really invested in this thread anymore beyond this -
The runt of the Corbyn litter got his (aka Milne's) statement wisely slapped down by the NEC so it's all over now, you failed to get your own way for almost once.

- Rare defeat for @jeremycorbyn at NEC. He wanted attached personal statement by him to be endorsed by NEC as clarification of IHRA definition of antisemitism. He withdrew statement when clear NEC would not accept it
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1037021611700957184

- This is the incendiary part of what ⁦@jeremycorbyn⁩ wanted the NEC to accept as clarification of IHRA on antisemitism - which he withdrew when clear he would be defeated
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1037027883317903360

C'est fini.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Butch Manly » 07 Sep 2018, 12:20

Are you not concerned that it might now shut down legitimate criticism of Israeli crimes in the West Bank, Samoan?
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Diamond Dog » 07 Sep 2018, 12:25

................
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Nikki Gradual » 07 Sep 2018, 13:14

yomptepi wrote:
Nikki Gradual wrote:Blair still doesn't get that he was the anomaly does he? Fucking prick.


Well, he did win 3 consecutive election on the trot. All with good majorities. He has every right to think he still carries the support of the witless cunts who voted for him before. After all , if they were stupid enough then...


He's the fucking Jamie Oliver of politics. Means well, in his head at least, but keeps popping up to remind everyone that he and only he knows what is best for everyone else. The sooner they both fuck off for good the better.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby The Prof » 07 Sep 2018, 14:19

But he is right.