The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Diamond Dog
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Diamond Dog » 03 Sep 2018, 16:33

Copehead wrote:
pickled penis my arse wrote:No you smell etc.

#debate


Oh look Robin Day's arrived


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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby yomptepi » 03 Sep 2018, 17:39

The Prof wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
The Prof wrote:
All fully costed out, I believe.

"Scrap student tuition fees



Let us take the very first item on the list shall we?

Initially costed at 12 billion. But within a day Emily Thornberry coceded that it would cost over 100 billion.

Shall I continue onto his ridiculous plans to re nationalise the water companies, and how much that would cost.

Honestly I despair of you people.


Such a terrible idea that even the Tories were considering it a few years ago.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -fees.html

¾ of all student fees are never repaid anyway. Labour priced it at £9.5 billion per annum. Where does the Emily Thornberry quote come from?


From her appearance on Andrew Marr.

That 9.5 billion a year only accounted for new loans. Not for reimbursing all existing student loans, which they would have to do in order for it to be fair.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Diamond Dog » 03 Sep 2018, 18:06

Erm... I'm sure you meant Angela Rayner, not Emily Thornberry, because i know you're an absolute stickler for detail.

https://fullfact.org/pmqs/2017/Jul/12


£100 billion: the cost of writing off student debt?

...her own party’s education spokesman has admitted that the tuition fees policy has a £100 billion…She has admitted that there is a £100 billion black hole in Labour's student fees policy.”

Damian Green MP, 12 July 2017

In its 2017 manifesto, the Labour party pledged to abolish university tuition fees.

There are two costs potentially associated with this. The first is the cost of scrapping the tuition fees (and associated loans) of future students—this is the policy in Labour’s manifesto. The second is the possibility of wiping off the amounts owed by current graduates—which Labour has separately said it would like to try to do.

It was the latter that Angela Rayner, Labour’s Shadow Education Secretary, was talking about when she referred to a £100 billion cost. When asked on Sunday’s BBC’s Andrew Marr Show how much wiping out current student debt would cost, Angela Rayner said “it’s £100 billion which they estimate currently, which will increase”.

The Student Loans Company has put the outstanding balance due from student loans in England at £89.3 billion (which includes English students studying in the UK, and EU students studying in England). This isn’t just about tuition fee loans—it also includes the cost of maintenance loans. It goes up to £100.5 billion UK wide.

But there are a few reasons to think the cost would not be as high as this—at least when talking about the current amount of student debt (the total amount of debt is increasing each year as more students go to university).
The government already writes off some student loan debt

First, as Ms Rayner said on the programme, the government already ‘writes off’ a certain amount of this anyway due to the way the system is designed.

Graduates only start to repay their debts when they reach a certain income threshold (currently £21,000 for students taking out a loan since 2012) and have their debts written off if they’re not repaid after 30 years (or after 25 years for students who started courses between 2006 and 2012).

So a certain amount is always expected not to be paid back.
The cost would depend on which loans were written off

Second, this £89 billion includes the cost of maintenance loans and tuition fee loans before the higher £9,000 fees came in back in 2012. When discussing the idea, Jeremy Corbyn was talking about alleviating those “that had the historical misfortune to be at university during the £9,000 period”. Some have interpreted this to mean the policy would focus on these graduates.

So if the focus is on wiping off only tuition fee debts for students studying in the £9,000 period, the cost would be lower. The Institute for Fiscal Studies has estimated the outstanding stock of loans for these graduates is roughly £30 billion (but this still excludes the amount of these that are already expected not to be repaid).
Other long-running costs

These costs are separate to the costs of removing future tuition fees, which the IFS has looked into here: http://election2017.ifs.org.uk/article/ ... nefit-most.



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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Pansy Puff » 03 Sep 2018, 18:11

yomptepi wrote:
The Prof wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Let us take the very first item on the list shall we?

Initially costed at 12 billion. But within a day Emily Thornberry coceded that it would cost over 100 billion.

Shall I continue onto his ridiculous plans to re nationalise the water companies, and how much that would cost.

Honestly I despair of you people.


Such a terrible idea that even the Tories were considering it a few years ago.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -fees.html

¾ of all student fees are never repaid anyway. Labour priced it at £9.5 billion per annum. Where does the Emily Thornberry quote come from?


From her appearance on Andrew Marr.

That 9.5 billion a year only accounted for new loans. Not for reimbursing all existing student loans, which they would have to do in order for it to be fair.

New loans was the policy. There were some changes to stamp duty that would have helped me, but I don't expect the government to reimburse me historically.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby The Prof » 03 Sep 2018, 18:40

yomptepi wrote:
That 9.5 billion a year only accounted for new loans. Not for reimbursing all existing student loans, which they would have to do in order for it to be fair.


No, no, no the policy was that they would "look" as current and past loans. They were never going to refund every loan since 1997.
although is some respects it may be cheaper.

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby yomptepi » 03 Sep 2018, 19:00

The Prof wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
That 9.5 billion a year only accounted for new loans. Not for reimbursing all existing student loans, which they would have to do in order for it to be fair.


No, no, no the policy was that they would "look" as current and past loans. They were never going to refund every loan since 1997.
although is some respects it may be cheaper.


Which would have been unfair. And it was Emily Thornberry on the Marr show.

The manifesto is a joke. Compiled by idiots to appeal to children. Anyone with any comprehension of the cost of living would have treated it as such. It was unrealistic, idealistic and simplistic. A bit like the Labour front bench.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Pansy Puff » 03 Sep 2018, 19:04

yomptepi wrote:
The Prof wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
That 9.5 billion a year only accounted for new loans. Not for reimbursing all existing student loans, which they would have to do in order for it to be fair.


No, no, no the policy was that they would "look" as current and past loans. They were never going to refund every loan since 1997.
although is some respects it may be cheaper.


Which would have been unfair. And it was Emily Thornberry on the Marr show.

The manifesto is a joke. Compiled by idiots to appeal to children. Anyone with any comprehension of the cost of living would have treated it as such. It was unrealistic, idealistic and simplistic. A bit like the Labour front bench.

Please respond to my stamp duty example. Lots of changes can seem 'unfair' to those who didn't benefit previously. Where is this idea that because a change seems unfair to previous generations we shouldn't follow it. Ultimate conservatism!
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby kalowski II: The Revenge » 03 Sep 2018, 19:05

*Placeholder for DDogshit’s No, it’s like the Tory front bench you mean response *
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Diamond Dog » 03 Sep 2018, 19:15

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby kalowski II: The Revenge » 03 Sep 2018, 19:17

Ignore 8-)
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby yomptepi » 03 Sep 2018, 19:40

Pansy Puff wrote:New loans was the policy. There were some changes to stamp duty that would have helped me, but I don't expect the government to reimburse me historically.


There are some changes on stamp which would help me a lot at the moment. But I think a tax on property ownership is a fair tax. I do think it should be 50% on any second or subsequent property though
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Pansy Puff » 03 Sep 2018, 20:08

yomptepi wrote:
Pansy Puff wrote:New loans was the policy. There were some changes to stamp duty that would have helped me, but I don't expect the government to reimburse me historically.


There are some changes on stamp which would help me a lot at the moment. But I think a tax on property ownership is a fair tax. I do think it should be 50% on any second or subsequent property though


I agree. My point was that any changes in stamp duty shouldn't be retrospectively applied, just like any changes in student loans. It would be nice and it would be fair, but it's real pie in the sky.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby yomptepi » 03 Sep 2018, 21:02

Pansy Puff wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
Pansy Puff wrote:New loans was the policy. There were some changes to stamp duty that would have helped me, but I don't expect the government to reimburse me historically.


There are some changes on stamp which would help me a lot at the moment. But I think a tax on property ownership is a fair tax. I do think it should be 50% on any second or subsequent property though


I agree. My point was that any changes in stamp duty shouldn't be retrospectively applied, just like any changes in student loans. It would be nice and it would be fair, but it's real pie in the sky.


Just like every other item in the manifesto. Pie in the sky. Did anyone ever point out to you that we are broke. ( thanks to a Labour government)
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Diamond Dog » 03 Sep 2018, 21:11

yomptepi wrote:
And it was Emily Thornberry on the Marr show.



Unless Angela Rayner & Emily Thornberry both appeared on the Marr show talking about student debt, then it clearly wasn't (as my post above shows).
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby The Prof » 03 Sep 2018, 21:20

yomptepi wrote:Did anyone ever point out to you that we are broke. ( thanks to a Labour government)


We’re not broke. We are one of the richest countries in the world. It’s just that most of the money is in the hands of the wrong people.

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Pansy Puff » 03 Sep 2018, 21:20

yomptepi wrote:
Pansy Puff wrote:
yomptepi wrote:
There are some changes on stamp which would help me a lot at the moment. But I think a tax on property ownership is a fair tax. I do think it should be 50% on any second or subsequent property though


I agree. My point was that any changes in stamp duty shouldn't be retrospectively applied, just like any changes in student loans. It would be nice and it would be fair, but it's real pie in the sky.


Just like every other item in the manifesto. Pie in the sky. Did anyone ever point out to you that we are broke. ( thanks to a Labour government)

I can only assume you are deliberately misunderstanding what I have written. No one is that stupid.
Read. What. I. Wrote.
Slowly.
This bit in bold.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Butch Manly » 03 Sep 2018, 21:21

Opinion piece in the Israeli Haaretz newspaper, just to show that even in Israel there are many who think this is all a load of shit:

Jeremy Corbyn for U.K. Prime Minister

Israelis regard him as a sort of alien – the left here has never been led by an Israeli Corbyn, nor by anyone who can hold a candle to him

Gideon Levy
09.08.2018 | 00:28

Jeremy Corbyn is a paragon of a leftist, one who has fought his whole life for the values he believes in. Israelis regard him as a sort of alien – the left here has never been led by an Israeli Corbyn, nor by anyone who can hold a candle to him.
Corbyn is a brave man. He voted in parliament 553 times against his party’s position, and yet he took its leadership by storm. He voted against the war in Iraq, against nuclear weapons and against British rule in Northern Ireland. He was active in Amnesty against Augusto Pinochet, and was arrested in anti-apartheid demonstrations in South Africa.
>> Why Corbynism is a threat to Jews throughout the Western world
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With such a conscience and courage he wouldn’t have gotten anywhere in Israel, apart from Breaking the Silence. In Britain he has a good chance of being elected the next prime minister. Nothing lights up the imagination and inspires hope more than that. Anyone who wants to see the world take action against the Israeli occupation should dream of Corbyn.
Corbyn has been declared the next enemy of the Jews. Viktor Orban is a righteous among the nations; the American alt-right is the rock of Israel and its savior; Rodrigo Duterte, the Philippines’ leader who called to kill millions “like Hitler,” is a welcome guest in Israel – and Corbyn is the enemy of the people.
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Why Corbynism Is a Threat to Jews Throughout the Western World
Dial Down the Hysteria on anti-Semitism in Corbyn's Labour
The Jewish establishment in Britain and Israeli propaganda have taken out a contract on him, to foil his election: He’s an anti-Semite, Labor is anti-Semitic, Jewish life in Britain is in “existential danger,” no less, as three British Jewish newspapers cried out in a joint editorial.

While the situation of any Jew in Britain is better, safer, more egalitarian and freer than the condition of any Arab citizen in Israel, not to mention the Palestinians in the occupied territories, the Jewish establishment’s desperate cry for help raised an uproar and commotion against Corbyn.
The Israeli press hastened to join the incitement campaign – branding every Labor utterance as anti-Semitic. Party Member Peter Willsman branded the rabbis who accused his party of anti-Semitism as “Jewish Trump fanatics” – gevalt, anti-Semitism. Some commentator accused Corbyn of being too apologetic, another accused him of not apologizing. Even a young, impressive journalist like Antonia Yamin of Kan hastened to join the instigation crusade.
>> Orban Is a Clever anti-Semite. Corbyn Is a Stupid One | Opinion A Dishonest Fallacy: Israel’s Occupation Isn't Why anti-Semitism’s Spiking | Opinion

Let it be said: Corbyn is a staunch, consistent opponent of Israel’s occupation policy. That is his right; as a true leftist it’s his duty. On Labor’s fringes there are certainly anti-Semitic circles; Corbyn stated several days ago in an op-ed in The Guardian that they have no place in his party. The attempt to reduce what Labor defines as anti-Semitic, unlike the prevalent definition of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, doesn’t necessarily make the party anti-Semitic.
But the Jewish-Israeli propaganda persists: When Israel enacts the apartheid law and its soldiers kill 160 unarmed demonstrators on the Gaza border, the only response is to accuse anyone who criticizes this of anti-Semitism. It works, it places the accused in the prosecutor’s role.
Israel has enacted a law saying it is the nation-state of the Jewish people. In other words, anything Israel does represents the entire Jewish people. This has a price.

When an Israeli sniper shoots dead a legless man in a wheelchair, and a nurse – the Jewish people is a partner. Thus Israel’s policy is inflaming anti-Semitism in the world. It may and should be criticized, as Labor does and as Corbyn does, and the gagging, in the form of labeling any criticism as anti-Semitism, is outrageous. It also increases anti-Semitism and the feeling that the Jews are acting like bullies and using their power of emotional blackmail.
Hajo Meyer, a Dutch Holocaust survivor and human rights activist, once coined the phrase, “Once an anti-Semite was a man who hates Jews. Today an anti-Semite is a man whom the Jews hate.”
Leave the incitement campaign against Corbyn and wish him luck: He’s a man of conscience, and I hope he’ll be Britain’s prime minister. It could be good for Israel as well.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Copehead » 03 Sep 2018, 22:34

That is powerful stuff
And if you tolerate this then your children will be next

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby The Prof » 03 Sep 2018, 23:47

Or common sense..

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby yomptepi » 04 Sep 2018, 00:03

The Prof wrote:
yomptepi wrote:Did anyone ever point out to you that we are broke. ( thanks to a Labour government)


We’re not broke. We are one of the richest countries in the world. It’s just that most of the money is in the hands of the wrong people.

A communist!!
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