The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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The Modernist
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The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby The Modernist » 26 Jul 2018, 10:12

Yet more attacks on him today.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ial-threat
Let's be clear here, what we are seeing is a coordinated campaign of vilification by the powerful Jewish lobby ( and let's not shy away from calling them that for it is what they are) and their media enablers to hound Corbyn out of office. Why? Because we are finally getting a Labour administration that is critical of Israel. This is profoundly anti-democratic, an attempt to shut down debate through smear and needs to be resisted at all costs.
Can we really afford to have a nationally elected politician dictated to by shadowy cabal in this manner? It's very disturbing.

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby The Prof » 26 Jul 2018, 10:16

The accusations tell you all you need to know about the accusers.

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby yomptepi » 26 Jul 2018, 10:54

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Corbyn gets what he deserves. He is so inept, and so hapless that he cannot even keep peace in his own constituency , let alone London or god forbid the country. This whole debacle has happened because he is so old school he still believes that the best course of action in a crisis is to do nothing. Unfortunately these days , with social media and the internet, nothing is the last thing you can do. It took two years to sort out the Livingstone issue. Labour still cannot find a way to word their policy that by criticising Israel you are not necessarily criticising the Jewish faith. And now that he he has the hackles of every single Jew in the UK up, it is hardly surprising that he is under attack. If he was a capable and intelligent leader, he would be able to negotiate a way through this mess, especially as he lives and works in a very Jewish area. But he is stubborn and arrogant, vain and stupid. He is a disgrace.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Goat Boy » 26 Jul 2018, 10:54

I would really avoid using phrases like “shadowy cabal” and “the powerful Jewish lobby” unless you want to sound like a crypto anti-semitic twat, G.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby The Modernist » 26 Jul 2018, 11:05

Goat Boy wrote:I would really avoid using phrases like shadowy cabal and powerful Jewish lobby unless you want to sound like a crypto anti-semitic twat, G.


No I'm quite happy to call them that as it is a perfectly accurate and apt description, and I don't want them censoring debate and dictating how we should regard Israel. And I especially object to them thinking they can circumnavigate democracy and decide who should or shouldn't be Leader of The Labour Party.

Have a watch of this documentary if you have time Dougie..
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/01/ ... 17792.html

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Deebank » 26 Jul 2018, 11:06

The Modernist wrote:Yet more attacks on him today.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ial-threat
Let's be clear here, what we are seeing is a coordinated campaign of vilification by the powerful Jewish lobby ( and let's not shy away from calling them that for it is what they are) and their media enablers to hound Corbyn out of office. Why? Because we are finally getting a Labour administration that is critical of Israel. This is profoundly anti-democratic, an attempt to shut down debate through smear and needs to be resisted at all costs.
Can we really afford to have a nationally elected politician dictated to by shadowy cabal in this manner? It's very disturbing.


While I agree with all the above I would caution against using terms like 'shadowy cabal' in this context.
They're not actually a shadowy cabal at all are they? They are all quite high profile groups and publications that have made their opinions public in an overt way. Indeed you were right first time with 'powerful jewish lobby'.

That quibble aside, what I'd like to know is where is the substance of their beef with Corbyn? Where and what is this anti-semitism? Is it just the non-adoption of certain bits of that definition of anti-semitism by the party? Is it the (until recently) toleration of Ken Livingstone - and other (often jewish) anti-zionist voices within the Labour party? They seem very keen to lay the blame at his door, so how specifically did the party change when he became leader?

They have said he is an 'existential threat' to British jews. That is a very serious allegation. How exactly does is he threatening the existence of jews in the UK?
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby The Modernist » 26 Jul 2018, 11:15

Perhaps 'shadowy cabal' was the wrong phrase, I accept that. I am aware that there is a long history of anti Jewish conspiracy theory and apologise if my language unconsciously evoked that.
But the reason I used that phrase was because the Labour MPs that have been criticising Corbyn so relentlessly ( which is why one must assume it is coordinated) all have track records of lobbying for Israel and being members of organisations that have this very direct purpose, and they are not at all transparent in admitting this is their true agenda.

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby yomptepi » 26 Jul 2018, 11:19

Surely one of the absolutely basic things a leader should be able to do is unite the various interest groups within the party. By allowing this to fester for so long ( it was going on all through Miliband's tenure) Corbyn has demonstrated how unfit for post he is.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby The Modernist » 26 Jul 2018, 11:21

yomptepi wrote:Surely one of the absolutely basic things a leader should be able to do is unite the various interest groups within the party. By allowing this to fester for so long ( it was going on all through Miliband's tenure) Corbyn has demonstrated how unfit for post he is.


He isn't pro Israel enough and too supportive of Palestinian rights. That's the only agenda here Mike. That's what he's 'guilty' of.

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby yomptepi » 26 Jul 2018, 11:30

The Modernist wrote:
yomptepi wrote:Surely one of the absolutely basic things a leader should be able to do is unite the various interest groups within the party. By allowing this to fester for so long ( it was going on all through Miliband's tenure) Corbyn has demonstrated how unfit for post he is.


He isn't pro Israel enough and too supportive of Palestinian rights. That's the only agenda here Mike. That's what he's 'guilty' of.


He doesn't need to be either of those things. As a leader he has to be able to accommodate different positions within his party. His apathy and disinterest and his downright lazyness are construed as a position. His only position is that he cannot be bothered.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby The Modernist » 26 Jul 2018, 11:39

You really believe that the latest coordinated headline attacks across three Jewish newspapers, accompanied by the usual chorus from some Labour MPs, have been motivated because Corbyn is a bit lazy. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Belle Lettre » 26 Jul 2018, 11:49

They'll never rest till he's gone, that's for sure.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby yomptepi » 26 Jul 2018, 11:51

The Modernist wrote:You really believe that the latest coordinated headline attacks across three Jewish newspapers, accompanied by the usual chorus from some Labour MPs, have been motivated because Corbyn is a bit lazy. :lol: :lol: :lol:


Don't be absurd. The situation has arisen because he has spectacularly failed to find a position which is inclusive and satisfies all the parties. Do not think for a minute that I would consider this to be an easy task. It is an impossible task. But one that could have been handled better had he been a little less interested in personal profile and the cult of Corbyn, and a bit more interested in the problems eating away at the very roots of the Labour movement. Because ( and I agree with his position here ) he has adopted a pro Palestinian position, he has damaged relations with the Jewish sections of the Labour party. As has been proved, this is a large, rich and powerful lobby. It is a leaders job to maintain party stability. Therefore it is his job to find a the path of least resistance, and which offends the fewest people.

My point here G , is that Corbyn could,t run a self aggrandizing festival in his own constituency without having to bus in rent a crowds. So how anyone could expect him negotiate a path between the supporters of Palestine and Israel is beyond me. He is a catastrophe for labour, even if the children do like singing his name.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby The Prof » 26 Jul 2018, 12:29

"he has adopted a pro Palestinian position, he has damaged relations with the Jewish sections of the Labour party. As has been proved, this is a large, rich and powerful lobby. " - which is exactly what G said.

"It is an impossible task." -but even more impossible if you're lazy!

It doesn't matter who is leader of the Labour Party, you'd be attacking them anyway.

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby yomptepi » 26 Jul 2018, 12:37

The Prof wrote:"he has adopted a pro Palestinian position, he has damaged relations with the Jewish sections of the Labour party. As has been proved, this is a large, rich and powerful lobby. " - which is exactly what G said.

"It is an impossible task." -but even more impossible if you're lazy!

It doesn't matter who is leader of the Labour Party, you'd be attacking them anyway.


True.

But Corbyn is such an huge target, being so utterly useless an all.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby yomptepi » 26 Jul 2018, 12:39

The Prof wrote:"he has adopted a pro Palestinian position, he has damaged relations with the Jewish sections of the Labour party. As has been proved, this is a large, rich and powerful lobby. " - which is exactly what G said.

"It is an impossible task." -but even more impossible if you're lazy!

It doesn't matter who is leader of the Labour Party, you'd be attacking them anyway.


His job is to keep the party united. He is unwilling to compromise on any issue. That is not compatible with leadership of a party which is supposed to be all inclusive.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby The Prof » 26 Jul 2018, 12:42

He's leader of Hamas during the week, an IRA operative at weekends and still has time to make jam on his days off. Give the guy a break.

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 26 Jul 2018, 13:40

I don’t know the nuances of U.K. politics as well as I’d like - but I didn’t see any accusation against Corbyn that seemed beyond the fray in the article linked in the OP.

We’re facing a similar dynamic in the US. The more the Netanyahu regime squanders away Israel’s moral standing in the world, the more the left sides with the Palestinians. This creates a tension within the ranks of liberal constituencies.

What I’m seeing in that article looks like the tension I’ve seen here. What I don’t see is “demonisation” (with an S or a Z). In fact, if the “sticking points on the “code of conduct” are as this article describes - I’m surprised at how polite the response seems to be. One can fully dislike the current state of Israel’s treatment of Palestinians and still be rightly offended by a “code” that protects the right to call Israel’s very existence “racist.” I know that I find it offensive.

It also appears to me that “pro-Israel lobby” might be more accurate (and less tinged with anti-semitism” than “powerful Jewish lobby.” There are Jews that condemn Netanyahu and all that he stands for.
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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby The Prof » 26 Jul 2018, 14:08

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:I don’t know the nuances of U.K. politics as well as I’d like - but I didn’t see any accusation against Corbyn that seemed beyond the fray in the article linked in the OP.


Maybe not in there but you have got a Labour MP, Margaret Hodge, calling him a "fucking antisemite and a racist”.

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Re: The demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn

Postby yomptepi » 26 Jul 2018, 14:37

The Prof wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:I don’t know the nuances of U.K. politics as well as I’d like - but I didn’t see any accusation against Corbyn that seemed beyond the fray in the article linked in the OP.


Maybe not in there but you have got a Labour MP, Margaret Hodge, calling him a "fucking antisemite and a racist”.


I must say I find Hodges behaviour here very surprising. Sh has always been so measured and even handed in her dealing with the committees she has served on, and I have always thought that she was one of the very few Labour mp's who was willing to do any work at all. This sort of outburst is very unlike her.
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