design deterioration

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Re: design deterioration

Postby Deebank » 10 Sep 2018, 08:38

BOXO wrote:There's really no point trying to engage with a simpleton. His world is fast cars and fat anoraks. Top Gear arsehole.


What an utter fucking crock of shit, you clearly know nothing about him!

... you didn’t mention rugby once!
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Re: design deterioration

Postby The Modernist » 10 Sep 2018, 08:44

Snarfyguy wrote:
Copehead wrote:The whole premise is wrong anyway - man like things the same as they were when he was young - isn't a strong argument.

I suspect that may be all there is to it, but I do think the argument is worth debating on its merits rather than being rejected outright because it wasn't properly formed.


I think design has got more generic so I think there has been a decline, but I don't necessarily agree with the examples chosen as, for me, they're not particularly good examples of 70s design.

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Re: design deterioration

Postby Copehead » 10 Sep 2018, 09:40

Deebank wrote:
BOXO wrote:There's really no point trying to engage with a simpleton. His world is fast cars and fat anoraks. Top Gear arsehole.


What an utter fucking crock of shit, you clearly know nothing about him!

... you didn’t mention rugby once!


What are Fat Anoraks :? Is it like that thing that Martha wears?

Is he talking about the solitary male music/sport/gaming ( delete as necessary ) obsessives that would appear to encompass himself other than he isn't fat, or is he saying BCB is fat anoraks or is it some social trend I have missed?

I would have thought the cringeworthy right wing banter that used to define Top Gear would have been right up Coan's street anyway, it is basically just another form of what he does with his "Gays" threads, I am pretty sure he would have hooted with laughter and taken notes at the Hamster's "Ice Cream is Gay" routine if only it hadn't had a tangential link to something he obviously doesn't obsess about - fast cars.
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Re: design deterioration

Postby Eddie Shah environment » 10 Sep 2018, 10:18

Blub blub blub blub blub?

Blub blub blub?

Blub blub blub blub blub blub blubblubblubblubblubblubblubblubblub!! :lol:
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Re: design deterioration

Postby Copehead » 10 Sep 2018, 13:01

BOXO wrote:Blub blub blub blub blub?

Blub blub blub?

Blub blub blub blub blub blub blubblubblubblubblubblubblubblubblub!! :lol:


More coherent than your o.p., well done.
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Re: design deterioration

Postby Diamond Dog » 10 Sep 2018, 13:27

The Modernist wrote:
I think design has got more generic so I think there has been a decline, but I don't necessarily agree with the examples chosen as, for me, they're not particularly good examples of 70s design.


I'm sure design is driven by the dreaded focus groups and their outputs in much the way every thing else on this fucking planet is these days.
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Re: design deterioration

Postby The Modernist » 10 Sep 2018, 13:33

Diamond Dog wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
I think design has got more generic so I think there has been a decline, but I don't necessarily agree with the examples chosen as, for me, they're not particularly good examples of 70s design.


I'm sure design is driven by the dreaded focus groups and their outputs in much the way every thing else on this fucking planet is these days.


I think that's one of the key differences. I think design used to be about standing out, but now it's about fitting in.

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Re: design deterioration

Postby Eddie Shah environment » 10 Sep 2018, 13:57

I think many of the designs of the 60s and 70s now objectively (or as close as we can get to this in a world with contrary bastards like Ray in it) look good. They've been a feature of our everyday culture for long enough now for it not to seem like a fad. And in a way we have to choose something, because the present-day aesthetic doesn't really exist.
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Re: design deterioration

Postby The Modernist » 10 Sep 2018, 14:16

But I think the stuff people often go for from then is the stuff that stands out and makes a bold statement; it has a certain maverick individuality, whereas today is more about utilitarian good taste.

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Re: design deterioration

Postby Eddie Shah environment » 10 Sep 2018, 14:20

Yes I suppose so.

But we can only get a sense of the style of our times when we look back on it 20 or 30 years hence. What characterises the present day? surely more than 'utilitarian good taste'?
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Re: design deterioration

Postby Eddie Shah environment » 10 Sep 2018, 20:52

I see.

Interesting.


ANYWAY

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Re: design deterioration

Postby Wally Bingbang » 10 Sep 2018, 21:31

I can certainly see the appeal in that, and I can also see a very logical, linear progression from that to this:

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and I don't think I'd say that there's a deterioration in design from one to the other.
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Re: design deterioration

Postby Quaco » 11 Sep 2018, 00:05

I read automotive brochures for a living. The most interesting things to auto designers are aerodynamics, performance, and innovation (competition with other carmakers and just cool things). They also talk a lot about fuel economy, because customers are interested in that. The actual design of the car is only mentioned in terms of the aerodynamics and performance. You never see a car ad or brochure where they just show a cool-looking car because it looks cool. There is no future to call us on. We're there -- and everywhere, form follows function. It's the same with any artform where the technical bods have taken over. The car industry is still in the place of trying to make the cleanest, most perfect Steely Dan record. There are reasons for this, of course. In industry, conservation of materials is paramount. Most everything comes down to money.
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Re: design deterioration

Postby The Modernist » 11 Sep 2018, 02:43

That's interesting, but also a little weird because cars are also status symbols and car owners will often put a lot effort in keeping the car looking good. Clearly how it looks matters. Yet I very rarely see a design nowadays that is really appealing, and when I do it's invariably a sports car. In terms of ordinary saloon cars, I think you'd have to go back to the 70s for the last time they really looked good.

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Re: design deterioration

Postby Eddie Shah environment » 11 Sep 2018, 06:30

Yeah - nearly all cars these days (at least in this country) are dreary looking things. 'functional', at best.

And they're everywhere - I always find myself trying to take a picture of a great building, or some little scene going on, and there are these ugly machines littering the view. They bring you down, maaaan!
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Re: design deterioration

Postby Diamond Dog » 11 Sep 2018, 09:05

The Modernist wrote:That's interesting, but also a little weird because cars are also status symbols and car owners will often put a lot effort in keeping the car looking good. Clearly how it looks matters. Yet I very rarely see a design nowadays that is really appealing, and when I do it's invariably a sports car. In terms of ordinary saloon cars, I think you'd have to go back to the 70s for the last time they really looked good.


That's all economics though, isn't it?

What you pay for with the more expensive 'sports cars' are the looks - that's the difference.

I was amazed when it was explained to me that VW, for instance, provide almost the exact same engine and chassis for the Seat Leon*, VW Polo* and Audi A3*. The only difference is the body - with the cost escalating from the more functional Seat up to the A3.... it's the same car, different look. And a much inflated price for the rings on the front of the car.

*The makes are correct, the models may not be.!
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Re: design deterioration

Postby Copehead » 11 Sep 2018, 09:31

Diamond Dog wrote:
The Modernist wrote:That's interesting, but also a little weird because cars are also status symbols and car owners will often put a lot effort in keeping the car looking good. Clearly how it looks matters. Yet I very rarely see a design nowadays that is really appealing, and when I do it's invariably a sports car. In terms of ordinary saloon cars, I think you'd have to go back to the 70s for the last time they really looked good.


That's all economics though, isn't it?

What you pay for with the more expensive 'sports cars' are the looks - that's the difference.

I was amazed when it was explained to me that VW, for instance, provide almost the exact same engine and chassis for the Seat Leon*, VW Polo* and Audi A3*. The only difference is the body - with the cost escalating from the more functional Seat up to the A3.... it's the same car, different look. And a much inflated price for the rings on the front of the car.

*The makes are correct, the models may not be.!


There will almost certainly be different spec and tech levels as standard as well as you go up the VAG hierarchy and you missed out the Skoda Fabia which sits at the bottom. SEAT isn't the cheap badge it is supposed to be the sporty badge, with Skoda being the value for money, VW the Premium and Audi the luxury.

This also happens across the industry these days it is just more people are aware of it in the VAG group. Platform and engine sharing is absolutely ubiquitous as those are the major cost items and they add little to the perceived worth of the car in the eyes of the buyer.
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Re: design deterioration

Postby Eddie Shah environment » 11 Sep 2018, 10:03

:lol:

loads of fun at parties
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Re: design deterioration

Postby Copehead » 11 Sep 2018, 10:35

BOXO wrote::lol:

loads of fun at parties


Much as you appear to think this site is all about you John, I'm afraid it isn't.

Did you know that Dacias share around 80% of the components with Renaults? Of course you didn't because you are an idiot.
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Re: design deterioration

Postby Eddie Shah environment » 11 Sep 2018, 10:43

:lol:
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