Bernie

in reality, all of this has been a total load of old bollocks
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Bernie

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 23 May 2018, 23:00

Let’s have a thread for Bernie. He’s going to run in 2020, so might as well.

Let’s start with his announcement to run for another Senate term. His plan is to run as a Democrat, win...then decline the Democratic nomination and run in the general as an Independent.

This plan will essentially give him access to Democratic money and resources for the primary, and assure him of no challenge from the Democrats in the general. He apparently did the same the last two election cycles.

Given all of the hyperventilating over the way 2016 went...does anyone else find this hypocritical?

https://politi.co/2GEtWeq
Last edited by Davey the Fat Boy on 14 Jul 2018, 18:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Jimbo
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Re: Bernie

Postby Jimbo » 24 May 2018, 05:22

Yeah, I got a solicitation Bernie email for his senate bid and balked. I want to know more. I'm assuming from your post he will take the DNC, DNCCC, etc., corporate money and, naturally, individuals' donations. If he does take the corporate money that would be a mark against him but not a deal killer. If he whittles down his progressive proposals, well, that'd probably be the end of our relationship. He also needs to come out more forcefully against the MIC and our arrogant foreign policy a la Jimmy Carter.
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Re: Bernie

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 24 May 2018, 14:13

Jimbo wrote:Yeah, I got a solicitation Bernie email for his senate bid and balked. I want to know more. I'm assuming from your post he will take the DNC, DNCCC, etc., corporate money and, naturally, individuals' donations. If he does take the corporate money that would be a mark against him but not a deal killer. If he whittles down his progressive proposals, well, that'd probably be the end of our relationship. He also needs to come out more forcefully against the MIC and our arrogant foreign policy a la Jimmy Carter.


He did the same thing over the last two election cycles, so I wouldn’t worry about the influence of money changing him.

But that hypocrisy here is the Senatorial coronation he clearly is planning on. He’s essentially denying resources to a competitor from the Democratic party, using them himself - THEN claiming independence.

The fact that he’d already done this twice before complaining about the DNC favoring Clinton is especially galling. He clearly has no great worry that the people of his state haven’t spoken yet.
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Insouciant Western People
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Re: Bernie

Postby Insouciant Western People » 24 May 2018, 14:25

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:does anyone else find this hypocritical?


Based on what you've said, yes it does sound hypocritical.

And the man's going to be almost 80 by the time of the 2020 Presidential Election.

Based on both of those, can't the DNC or the Vermont State Democrats just tell him to bugger off, bar him from the party, and refuse him any funding and support?
Last edited by Insouciant Western People on 24 May 2018, 14:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bernie

Postby Wally Bingbang » 24 May 2018, 14:27

As the woke kids say: "Sit down, Bernie".
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Re: Bernie

Postby LeBaron » 24 May 2018, 14:31

Insouciant Western People wrote:Based on both of those, can't the DNC just tell him to bugger off, bar him from the party, and refuse him any funding and support?


I don’t think that the parties really “bar” people from affiliating with the party. I gather American party membership is much less rigid than membership in the UK. If you vote in the party primary, you’re basically a member of the party.

Anyway, if the DNC did that, Jimbo and all the Bernie people would revolt and the left, such as it is, would be split in two and even more ineffectual than it is now.
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Davey the Fat Boy
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Re: Bernie

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 24 May 2018, 14:57

I wouldn’t want to see him barred from running. He’s not doing anything “wrong” per se. But the hypocrisy is stunning.

For a guy who largely stoked the idea that the Presidential primary was “rigged” because the DNC attempted to clear the deck for its presumptive nominee - I don’t see how he makes such a bald attempt to clear the deck for his Senate campaign.

The “all roads lead to Hillary” thread is still on the front page of Nextdoorland. Read some of the handwringing there and try to square this.
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Re: Bernie

Postby Jimbo » 24 May 2018, 15:17

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:I wouldn’t want to see him barred from running. He’s not doing anything “wrong” per se. But the hypocrisy is stunning.

For a guy who largely stoked the idea that the Presidential primary was “rigged” because the DNC attempted to clear the deck for its presumptive nominee - I don’t see how he makes such a bald attempt to clear the deck for his Senate campaign.

The “all roads lead to Hillary” thread is still on the front page of Nextdoorland. Read some of the handwringing there and try to square this.


Where are you getting info? Jimmy Dore is showing how Politico is doing a hatchet job on Bernie.
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Re: Bernie

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 24 May 2018, 15:36

The same info is echoed in multiple papers. Not sure if they all emanate from the Politico article or not.

But what is the substance of stand-up comedian Jimmy Dore’s supposed debunking? Does he deny that Sanders is running in the primary as a Dem with the stated intent of declining the nomination. That part is a direct quote from his spokesperson Arianna Jones.
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Re: Bernie

Postby Jimbo » 24 May 2018, 16:17

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:The same info is echoed in multiple papers. Not sure if they all emanate from the Politico article or not.

But what is the substance of stand-up comedian Jimmy Dore’s supposed debunking? Does he deny that Sanders is running in the primary as a Dem with the stated intent of declining the nomination. That part is a direct quote from his spokesperson Arianna Jones.


A link would be helpful. :)
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Re: Bernie

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 24 May 2018, 16:42

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Re: Bernie

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 24 May 2018, 16:50

Now how about a link to Dore’s debunking?
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Re: Bernie

Postby Jimbo » 24 May 2018, 17:13

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Now how about a link to Dore’s debunking?


My bad. It was TYT and not Dore. I will give you the link but the story doesn't cover the funding issue for which you accuse Bernie of hypocrisy. My point was to see if perhaps you were getting info from a biased site for I have seen bias via this video that shows some leftish sites are biased against Bernie and progressives in general.

About your link, there is nothing in the report that alludes to anything other than that Bernie is running for the Senate again.

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Re: Bernie

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 24 May 2018, 17:28

Jimbo wrote:
About your link, there is nothing in the report that alludes to anything other than that Bernie is running for the Senate again.


”A spokeswoman for Sanders' campaign said he plans to run as an independent. In past elections, Sanders has declined the Democratic nomination but accepted the Democratic endorsement.

As he has for many campaigns, Bernie will contribute to and participate in the Vermont Democratic coordinated campaign," the spokeswoman, Arianna Jones, said in a statement.”


It is actually pretty hard from that to determine whether Bernie plans to run in the primary as an Independent or the general. But it is hard to imagine Politico just making something like that up when it will be pretty obvious on the ballot.

Regardless - the one thing that IS clear is that Sanders DID employee this tactic in past elections. No matter how you slice it...hypocrisy.

As for that blowhard Cenk...he’s talking about another article describing Our Revolution as in disarray.
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Re: Bernie

Postby sloopjohnc » 24 May 2018, 17:29

If he runs on a more widespread platform than he did last time, I might take more interest. That stated, I don't know if I agree with him on the platforms he does subscribe to. While well-meaning, I doubt their feasibility.

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Re: Bernie

Postby sneelock » 24 May 2018, 17:42

you can find anybody hypocritical for any reason you want. I don't really see anything in that Politico article that makes me feel that way but I don't for a minute think Bernie is a White Knight on a charger. I admire him in a lot of ways. You watch him on the floor of the Senate and he uses his time wisely with strong carefully chosen words. Me, I find him less impressive on the campaign trail and I count myself among those who was hoping he would sit the next one out. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say that his time has passed but I think maybe he really was a transitional figure & I think that has passed.

Look at Bernie's coverage, both good and bad. that recent Newsweek story for example. People don't agree over how it reflects on Bernie but they do agree that what it means to run as a Democrat has changed rather drastically. While I want Bernie to set it out, if Biden or somebody gets the party's seal of approval running some variation of Ye Olde "Gradual Liberalism" Strategy I will need to do a lot of heavy drinking.

I think Bernie's Monkees moment has passed. someone else will be getting youngsters excited by the next Presidential. maybe Andrew Wang, maybe somebody else. I hope it's somebody really exciting because I think, despite much being said to the contrary, the Dems have a hard road ahead if they want to win back the White House even if President Grumpy Pants were to explode tomorrow.
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Re: Bernie

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 24 May 2018, 17:51

sloopjohnc wrote:If he runs on a more widespread platform than he did last time, I might take more interest. That stated, I don't know if I agree with him on the platforms he does subscribe to. While well-meaning, I doubt their feasibility.


There’s not much “there” there in terms of policy from Sanders. Even his signature policies (free college, $15 minimum wage, single-payer) aren’t really answers to the income inequality and joblessness due to globalization he framed himself as the answer to.

The uncharitable reading of his movement is that it’s born of a lazy liberal wistfulness to return to an imaginary FDR (the progressive FDR is as imaginary a character as the right’s Ronald Reagan) era.

The stronger argument for Bernie’s movement is political. One of the things that sunk Clinton was that nobody cared about her policies. They wanted sweeping aspirations. Bernie got that, so he didn’t get bogged down by the details. Ultimately what people like about him is the direction he’s pulling. I get that. I’d even consider backing him on that basis myself if he and his supporters were not so dismissive of the rest of the Democratic coalition. That is their Achilles heel. It will be interesting to see if he corrects for it going forward.
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Re: Bernie

Postby sloopjohnc » 24 May 2018, 17:56

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:If he runs on a more widespread platform than he did last time, I might take more interest. That stated, I don't know if I agree with him on the platforms he does subscribe to. While well-meaning, I doubt their feasibility.


There’s not much “there” there in terms of policy from Sanders. Even his signature policies (free college, $15 minimum wage, single-payer) aren’t really answers to the income inequality and joblessness due to globalization he framed himself as the answer to.


While an unfair comparison, it's why I put him and Trump on equal footing when deciding on who I was going to vote for for President.

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Re: Bernie

Postby sneelock » 24 May 2018, 17:57

that Newsweek article I mentioned also rends it's garments over the "Bernie Bros". LOL.
shit, man. THOSE people (if they ever existed in the first place) jumped ship when Bernie endorsed Hillary.
I still get shit in my Facebook feed from people who think I'm a corporate whore because I didn't vote for Jilll Fucking Stein.

I think the moral superiority and inflexibility of Bernie supporters is mostly noise pollution that comes from Hardcore Clintonistas.
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Re: Bernie

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 24 May 2018, 18:19

I’d love to introduce you to a few people in my Facebook feed Snee.
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